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Datamined Reaper of Souls WD Skill Changes: Massive List

Discussion in 'Witch Doctor' started by Flux, Sep 16, 2013. | Replies: 24 | Views: 31985

  1. Flux

    Flux Administrator

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    Digging through the hay stack of datamined skill strings, I wanted to sort them out and put them into order so as to better get a sense of what's changing. Lots of skills got tweaks to the tooltip wording, but the ones listed here saw actual functional changes.

    Disclaimer: All changes are subject to further change during development.

    Other classes:




    _____________________WD Passive Skills___________________________


    Apparently the WD's passives are perfect, since there are virtually no changes, other than tweaks to clarifiy the tooltip wording. One worth noting:

    Zombie Handler (db)-- You can have 1 additional Zombie Dog summoned at one time. The healths of your Zombie Dogs and Gargantuan are increased by 20%.

    Formerly that skill said 4 Zombie Dogs, which just meant 1 more than the usual 3 summoned. But it paired with Circle of Life to potentially give a player 4 Mongrels for free. Now it sounds like you'd only get one from Circle of Life unless you also had Zombie Dogs on your hot bar. There are no substantial changes to Summon Zombie Dog, but there may be items that grant extra dogs?




    _______________________New WD Passives______________________________

    There are three new WD Passives on the drawing board.

    Creeping Death
    • Your Haunt and Locust Swarm abilities last almost forever.. (No details on the duration or target/splitting increase.)

    Physical Attunement
    • You gain 60 Physical Resistance for every enemy within 8 yards. The range of this effect is increased by your gold pickup radius.

    Midnight Feast
    • You can have 1 additional Zombie Dog summoned at one time. The damage of your Zombie Dogs and Gargantuan is increased 50%.

    Note that Midnight Feast has the same wording as Zombie Handler now, with "1 additional Zombie Dog." This one gives them a big damage boost, possibly making a Zoo Doctor build more viable?




    ____________Witch Doctor Skill Changes_______________________


    Summon Zombie Dogs (db)
    No change to base skill.
    Leeching Beasts: Your Zombie Dogs heal you for 100% of your Life On Hit with every attack. (Old version: Your Zombie Dogs heal 50% of the damage they deal as Life divided evenly between themselves and you. )



    Poison Dart (db)
    The mana cost (formerly 10) has been removed. None of the rune effects are changed except in tooltip wording.


    Corpse Spiders (db)
    The mana cost (formerly 5) has been removed. None of the rune effects are changed except in tooltip wording.


    Haunt (db)
    No changes in function to the base skill.
    • Consuming Spirit: The spirit returns 413 Life per second. (Formerly 155/sec.)
    The other tool tips are just tweaks to wording.


    Grasp of the Dead (db)
    No changes, just tooltip wording tweaks.


    Hex (db)
    No changes, just tooltip wording.



    Soul Harvest (db)
    Base skill unchanged.
    • Siphon: Gain 5780 Life for every harvested enemy. (Formerly 2171 life per enemy.)
    • Swallow Your Soul: Gain mana and increase maximum Mana by 5% for each enemy harvested. (Formerly 39.2 mana per enemy and no change to maximum mana.)


    Sacrifice (db)
    Banish your Zombie Dogs and cause them to explode, each dealing 275]% of your weapon damage as Physical to all enemies within 12 yards. Only summoned Zombie Dogs may be sacrificed. (The last line is new. They really don't like us using Circle of Life. There has to be some new WD items that allow for lots of free Mongrels?)
    • For the Master: Gain 16515 Life for each Zombie Dog you sacrifice. (Formerly 6202 life.)


    Locust Swarm (db)
    No changes but tooltip wording tweaks.


    Spirit Barrage (db)
    No change to base skill.
    • Phlebotomize: Enemies hit have a 100% chance to be Charmed for 2 seconds. (Old: "Regain 3% of damage dealt with Spirit Barrage as Life." Virtually every % life skill is being changed in RoS.)


    Horrify (db)
    No change to base skill.
    • Ruthless Terror: Gain 2695% Mana for every horrified enemy. (Formerly 27 mana per target.)
    I think Ruthless Terror is unchanged and this is just an error in the datamining display, as the skill currently does 26.95 mana per target, and it's just displayed as 27 in the game.


    Firebomb (db)
    The mana cost has been removed. (Formerly 10.) No other changes in function to base or runes.


    Acid Cloud (db)
    No changes but tooltip wording.


    Gargantuan (db)
    No changes but tooltip wording.


    Mass Confusion (db)
    No changes but tooltip wording. No change to Devolution rune; still a 50% chance of spawning a Zombie Dog for targets who die while Confused. Bear in mind the other changes to "free" Mongrels, though. They can't be sacrificed anymore.


    Spirit Walk (db)
    No changes but tooltip wording.


    Fetish Army (db)
    No changes but tooltip wording. There are other game changes to lower cooldowns that might make this a much more useful skill, though.


    Zombie Charger (db)
    No changes but tooltip wording. No nerf to Bears, even.


    Firebats (db)
    No changes but tooltip wording to base skill.
    • Vampire Bats: Firebats no longer has a channeling cost. (Formerly granted 2.5% Life Steal.)


    Plague of Toads (db)
    No changes but tooltip wording.


    Big Bad Voodoo (db)
    No changes but tooltip wording.


    Wall of Zombies (db)
    Raise a line of zombies 28 yards wide from the ground that attacks nearby enemies for 800% weapon damage as Physical over 5 seconds. (No size was previously specified, but 28 yards sounds about as big as it was, so probably just a tooltip wording clarification.)
    Cost: 103 Mana
    Cooldown: 20 seconds /
    • Barricade: Increase the width of the Wall of Zombies. (No figure is given for the increase, which is funny since they added that to the base skill description.)
    • Pile On: Summon a tower of zombies that falls over, dealing 550% weapon damage as Physical to any enemies it hits. Reduces the cooldown to 10 seconds. (Formerly had a knockback property, which has been removed.)


    __________________________New Witch Doctor Skill__________________________

    Carrion Swarm
    Summons a swarm of carrion insects at target location for 10 seconds with a 21 yard radius. The swarm envelops any creature that it touches causing enemies to take 50% increased damage for 10 seconds. When an enemy dies while under the effects of the swarm it spreads to nearby enemies.

    • Rune 1: Reduce the movement speed of affected enemies by 30%.
    • Rune 2:Gain 5% Mana for each afflicted enemy.
    • Rune 3: Enemies that die while under the effect of the swarm have a 20% chance to drop a health globe.
    • Rune 4: Increase the radius of the swarm by 150%.
    • Rune 5: Not Yet Implemented

    This sounds very similar to Locust Swarm; I guess it can affect a lot more enemies at once, hitting everything in the radius? So really it's more like an insect form of Grasp of the Dead with a bigger radius. Blizzard, if you guys need some more creative ideas, we've got a whole thread of new WD skill ideas.



    Conclusion:

    Surprised at how few changes the WD is set to get. Perhaps the devs just aren't really working on this class yet, but the current skills are getting about 1/10th the changes of the DH or Barb, and the passives are hardly touched at all. Removing the mana cost of some basic attacks doesn't really change anything since they had such a low cost to begin with, and it doesn't look like any new big killing builds other than Zombie Bears or Swarm of Bats. Sacrifice even looks weakened, though maybe other RoS changes to reduce cooldowns will help that one not require such specialized gear?

    I'm disappointed that there's nothing to hint that a real zoo build would be viable, and no, changes in cooldown to Fetish Army don't really do it. Plus they're making the free Mongrels much less useful or plentiful, which is a step back from zoo build options.

    Any other thoughts or issues you guys think need to be addressed?
  2. Mad Mantis

    Mad Mantis D2/3 Necromancer & Witch Doctor Moderator

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    Re: Reaper of Souls WD Skill Changes: Massive List

    Thoroughly underwhelmed with the current changes to the WD. My main hope for RoS was to change the number of good builds for all classes. I was hoping for more support for a Zookeeper build since that was what I really enjoyed in the Necro. I'd also liked to see a Spirit-centered build to be able to keep up with CoB/0Dog/Bears. All we are getting now is one good damage increasing skill that further reinforces the builds already there.

    For a Zookeeper you are obliged to take Midnight Feast and Zombie Handler. These passives will give you 5 dogs and 1 Gargantuan. Still very far from a proper zoo. The damage for the dogs will still be pitiful unless the wording on Midnight Feast is wrong. Now you are down two passives and your best damage still comes from Sacrifice. So in general a buff for 0dog and a small step towards a Zookeeper build.

    At the moment I can't really see a use for CoL. The mongrels it summons can only be used as meatshields and for their low damage. If they didn't count towards the 5 dog limit you could eventually have a rather nice collection of meatshields. This would give you more of a Zookeeper feel. Otherwise they can just remove the passive.

    Carrion swarm sounds like a good way to increase the damage output of a WD. The design itself uninspired. It is a mix-up of Cloud of Locusts and Grasp of the Dead and functions much like Amplify Damage did on the Necro. Still it sounds like a really good buff and a party friendly skill.

    The removal of the mana cost for basic attacks was a nice touch since the Wiz got it as well, but it is utterly inconsequential in the larger scheme of things. I never did understand why our basic attack had to cost mana.

    The changes to LS-skills were expected since they seem to eliminate all LS from the game. With this in mind bumping up the numbers for the healing skills was expected.

    There also seems to be a general trend of removing much of the knockback features that skills have. I wonder what the change to the game could be that they would want to limit the amount of knockback available to players.
  3. Flux

    Flux Administrator

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    Re: Reaper of Souls WD Skill Changes: Massive List

    They put knockback on a lot of skills in D3C and it was almost always not wanted, since D3 is such an AoE-style attacking game. And knockback ruined numerous skills, since even if their damage was buffed they were still not worth using due to the delay the knockback created.

    The irony may be that they remove most of the knockback in RoS, and then the new game modes feature more fearsome enemies that you'd actually want to stunlock or just delay with knockback... but you no longer have the option.
  4. Ivan E

    Ivan E IncGamers Member

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    100% chance to charm eh? In general, Charm works on some bosses. That could potentially trivialize some content, though I guess your kill speed still wouldn't be great, and that's everything in this game. But 100% chance to anything? Yowza.

    Also, re: the knockback discussion. I remember when I was struggling in Inferno pre-monster power, knockback built into skills was really useful to me as a way to survive. My Monk/Barb could not necessarily handle strong white mobs (e.g., Unburied), but due to their slow attacks and moves, FoT+knockback or Bash+knockback/stun made them trivial. The elites were obviously knockback-immune and thus more problematic, but as someone that never plays with others I don't really mind knockback, though I could see how it's not a multiplayer-friendly effect.
  5. Flux

    Flux Administrator

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    I got a ton of use out of Stampede on my softcore DH back in the early days, when I couldn't hold my ground in any other way against bosses. Haven't considered using it recently on my HC DHs since they're much better equipped and the DH has so many other buffs since back then.

    But I think the new skill design is probably better, with knockback here or there, but only on rune effects. Putting it as a default on base skills limits them too much. Though I guess it can be included as a sort of annoyance, like with Wave of Light. I'd much prefer no knockback there, so I could slam 2 or 3 bells on the same enemies without them squirming around. But that's such an OP skill that knockback feels justified as a weakness.
  6. Doctor Clock

    Doctor Clock IncGamers Member

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    Removing synergy with CoL and Sacrifice seems like an odd and disappointing move. I would have liked to see improvements to Haunt and Locust Swarm, either through a direct damage increase or increased utility in the form of buffs/debuffs. Carrion Swarm looks nice but is more along the lines of what I would have liked to see them do with the already existing DoT spells rather than adding a new one. However, with Carrion, BBV, and Mass Confusion Paranoia, there is a lot of burst damage potential. Hoping for a rework of Zombie Charger as well, as outside of the Zombie Bears rune, the skill is terrible.
  7. alcovitch

    alcovitch IncGamers Member

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    No love for Firebomb? I've always loved the look and feel of that skill since I saw it in the D3 preview years ago. Unfortunately most of the runes are crap and the 110% dmg isn't enough.
  8. Rec0n85

    Rec0n85 IncGamers Member

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    the only reason I ever used circle of life was to sacrifice. It gave you a chance to use the skill without choosing a dogs-based-build.

    Is sacrifice the only skill in the game that is 100% dependent on another? You essentially have to sacrifice two out of 6 skill slots (pun intended) to use it.
  9. FaultyYogurt

    FaultyYogurt IncGamers Member

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    "Your Zombie Dogs heal you for 100% of your Life On Hit with every attack."

    That's it, they're trolling us.
  10. Soval

    Soval IncGamers Member

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    Okay, please stop spreading the misinterpretation that Sacrifice will only work on the main skill. That is not what the data-mined description says:
    Note that it doesn't say 'Summon Zombie Dogs,' it says summoned 'Zombie Dogs.' It doesn't specify the source of the 'Zombie Dog' like so many seem to think it does.

    The language seem quite plain, and the new description doesn't change the way the spell already works.

    Rumors like this spread quickly enough already, we don't need a major fansite helping to legitimatize it.
  11. Frostlion

    Frostlion IncGamers Member

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    I am willing to be that they simply haven't gotten around to the Witch Doctor yet. If you take out the changes that are across all classes (that is, changes to healing, life steal and knockback), the things that are basically just wording and the new skills - which they're already testing for all classes, you're left with just this:

    1) Poisons Dart, Corpse Spiders and Fire Bomb have their (already tiny) mana cost removed.
    2) Soul Harvest - Swallow your Soul drains mana for you slightly differently now.

    That doesn't sound like limited changes, that sounds like they haven't even really looked at it yet, except to do two obvious resource regeneration things while doing a quick pass of how resources work for all classes.
    Now I could believe there were simply no changes if there were other classes that had just five or six skills changed, but with changes to virtually every single skill for a number of other classes, the discrepancy is just too great. Besides, this is an early alpha built, with lots of places where there are still placeholders for other classes with 'TBD', 'not yet implemented' or 'something with fire damage should go here' tags, is it really that surprising they haven't started on every class yet?
  12. Flux

    Flux Administrator

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    You may be correct, and they're obviously still working on everything, but why would the description change in that specific way if that's not their intention? They seem to be greatly improving and clarifying tool tips in RoS, so I think we can take their words as precise and not accidental. Thus, why would the say "Summoned zombie dogs" unless there's some difference between types of zombie dogs based on how they are created?

    While the grammar leads one to suspect that, I hope it's wrong. After all, that would be a stupid system, and confusing to players. WDs would forever be wondering why they could Sacrifice some of their dogs and not others.
  13. Mad Mantis

    Mad Mantis D2/3 Necromancer & Witch Doctor Moderator

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    I'm more than willing to believe that they haven't gotten to the WD yet. There have been quite a number of complaints regarding the OP-ness of the Barb and the UP-ness of the DH. Those classes were probably the first ones that they tackled. The Monk and Wiz are pretty straightforward classes so their changes wouldn't have taxed the Blizz team that much.

    The WD has always been a bit of a problem child for Blizz. They knew they wanted a replacement for the Necro and they knew they didn't want to copy the Necro too much. That's pretty much where their ideas ran out. Now that the expansion is coming out they are struggling with updating the class. They don't want to turn him into a Necro and they also don't want to turn him into a Wiz.




    There are currently two ways to gain your Mongrels. You can either use the skill or you can rely on proc effects to gain them. If Dogs gained via the skill and those gained via proc can all be used for Sacrifice why would there be a need to differentiate? You are adding a point of confusion instead of clarifying the wording.


    That's what I find most perplexing. Everything Blizz has done in this game has been to make sure that even braindead toddlers wouldn't get confused. This possible differentiation between summoned and procced Mongrels seems to run counter to that direction.
  14. HardRock

    HardRock IncGamers Member

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    Re: Reaper of Souls WD Skill Changes: Massive List

    Don't forget, that we'll get possibly build changing Legendary affixes as well. I'm not saying that the lack of skill changes is a good thing, only that we'll probably have other ways to mix things up. Just like you and Flux, I'm hoping that the devs simply didn't look at the WD just yet.

    What I'm also hoping for are changes to Spirit skills to make them more interesting and some general buffs to DoTs (not just for the WD). I think it would be cool if a full Spirit build would be viable and Rush of Essence would better promote something like this.

    Yes, it does. Note, that the only skill that says it "summons" dogs is Summon Zombie Dogs. Circle of Life, Mass Confusion / Devolution, Big Bad Voodoo / Boogie Man doesn't say that, so I think it's pretty clear what the devs' intention is.

    What I'm hoping is that this new distinction will mean that any dogs not created by SZD won't count to towards the summon limit, since technically we aren't summoning them. We'll see.
    Last edited: Sep 17, 2013
  15. Mage Slayer

    Mage Slayer IncGamers Member

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    I think the wording change here is because of Midnight Feast. If both said "4 Zombie Dogs" that would make them seem redundant. "+1 Zombie Dog" makes it clear they stack i.e. you get five with both.
  16. Ivan E

    Ivan E IncGamers Member

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    I dunno, Ghost Bomb is really quite good for what it is. I prefer to play with it or Rain of Toads than without it, but I think those tend to be better than any other cheap spammable skill. Some of the Corpse Spiders runes are decent too, but like Splinters, they're outclassed in a game where AoE damage on easy-to-kill monsters is the main paradigm.
  17. Soval

    Soval IncGamers Member

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    Look, I get that you guys are confused as to why they added that extra bit of text there, but again, the description does not say 'Summon Zombie Dogs,' and it does not say summoned by 'Summon Zombie Dogs,' it says summoned 'Zombie Dogs.' It in no way specifies the source of the 'Zombie Dogs.'

    Why do you believe that CoL and all the other proc effects do not 'summon' a 'Zombie Dog?' What is the basis for that bizarre conclusion?

    Please don't start spreading misinformation because you got confused by a couple of words.
  18. HardRock

    HardRock IncGamers Member

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    Please tell us then why they might do it. I'm genuinely curious. Can you think of any other reason?

    You can get dogs from 5 sources:

    Summon Zombie Dogs: Summon 4 Zombie Dogs from the depths to fight by your side. Each dog deals 9% of your weapon damage as Physical per hit.

    Sacrifice / Next of Kin: Each Zombie Dog you sacrifice has a 35% chance to resurrect as a new Zombie Dog.

    Mass Confusion / Devolution: Enemies killed while Confused have a 50% chance to spawn a Zombie Dog.

    Big Bad Voodoo / Boogie Man: Enemies who die in the ritual area have a 50% chance to resurrect as a Zombie Dog.

    Circle of Life: Whenever an enemy dies within 12 yards, there is a 30% chance that a Zombie Dog will automatically emerge. The range of this effect is increased by items that increase your gold pickup radius.

    Based on the newly changed wording of Sacrifice and the highlighted words, what is your conclusion?
    Last edited: Sep 18, 2013
  19. Apendecto

    Apendecto IncGamers Member

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    I'm reading this as each dog hit gives your whatever your total LOH is. Ex. LOH is 500. You sit back and let the dogs do the work. One dog attacks one enemy and you gain 500 life.

    Also, I sure hope sacrifice is not what it looks like. Honestly, that would make no sense.
  20. Soval

    Soval IncGamers Member

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    To let you know that ONLY Zombie Dogs can be sacrificed.
    My conclusion is that the wording confuses you, and you draw a premature conclusion about what it means because of it. Furthermore, you make a logical leap when you claim a Zombie Dog from SZG is summoned, but from all the others it isn't.

    Again, there is no solid specification that it only works with dogs created from Summon Zombie Dogs. It's a speculation based on confusion, but no actual evidence that the conclusion is true.

    I take issue not that there is room to speculate, but that a speculation is being treated as an obvious fact.

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