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D3X Level 70? New Wiz Skills?

Discussion in 'Wizard' started by Flux, Aug 29, 2013. | Replies: 19 | Views: 10120

  1. Flux

    Flux Administrator

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    Since the max level is going up to 70 in RoS and all the existing classes are getting new skills and passives, I thought it would be a great time to brainstorm potential Wizard fixes/improvements.

    Active skills the sky is the limit, and we can dream up pretty much anything... that said, I think that ideally the new skills would enable new things; new build style, new play approach, etc. Not just better or modified versions of current abilities.

    New passives could enable new builds or styles or plug gaps in the Wizard's current abilities.

    My main Wiz complaint and the reason I haven't played one in a long time is the very non-glas cannon feel of the class. I loved mages in D1/D2 since they were super blasty and fast, and had to use a big variety of different attacks; selecting the correct one for the situation. That's not viable in D3C, since you need so many defensive abilities, and the Archon build totally bores me since it's just the same thing forever. CM is more interesting, but it's so cheesy with the perma frozen, and it's not varied either. You do the exact same thing against every type of enemy.

    First of all, where's the passive that cuts teleport cooldown to nil. Power it with health orbs or kill speed or whatever; I don't care, I just want a wizard who can blink all the hell over the place, as the class always has in Diablo games.

    Secondly, how can a multi-attack type wizard exist who isn't just a CM perma-frozen cheeser? Dunno; you'd need 9 skills and for damage types of matter again... but I can dream. Maybe a passive that boosts damage for each type of damage you deal in a short period? But that isn't just a tack on to make CM even more OP?




    _________________
    Equivalent threads exist for all classes, if you want to join other speculations. Click the names to visit them:
    Design new level 70 Barbarian, Monk, Demon Hunter, Wizard, and Witch Doctor skills.
  2. tougeznut

    tougeznut IncGamers Member

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    I would love to see a true version of a fire mage again. All we currently have is Meteor and Hydra. Let's see the return of firewall, blaze, or inferno (? The fire breathing spell, whatever it's called)

    sent from my GalaxySIII
  3. Apendecto

    Apendecto IncGamers Member

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    I bet a giant hamburger that we'll see firewall in one form or another.
  4. MindGeyser

    MindGeyser IncGamers Member

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    The Wizard was originally billed as a homage to the classic Dungeons and Dragons-styled Wizard. That's partly why Arcane Missile, Ray of Frost, Diamon Skin, and Mirror Image exist or are named as they are. The class is part controlling the battlefield, part dealing tons of damage to tons of targets. The weaknesses were to be few in number but significant: the need to manage resources appropriately, the inability to withstand damage, and key knowledge of enemy traits and abilities.

    What we got was a class that lived up to almost none of that. I'm with Flux: I want my shooting, my burst damage, and my mobility.

    The class overall needs a lot of work to devise a system where CM doesn't rule the day. The biggest thing Blizzard can do is lower or remove the cooldown on most spells, then provide appropriate non-cooldown costs or drawbacks.

    The problem with cooldowns is that the abilities aren't fully player-manageable. The intricacies of how and when to use a skill are diminished to a binary it's up or you're screwed. The choice of whether to use one skill or another within a situation is diminished (when one is on cooldown, you have to hit the other). The game then would require the player to choose multiple defense skills to adequately protect himself or herself, which limits build options given the six ability slots. Without CM, most skills with cooldowns are virtually unusable for an Inferno Wizard, because they aren't effective enough as is, and the player would often need to immediately reuse the ability to win an encounter (e.g. Frost Nova), or the cooldown itself is so long, one can't use it in two subsequent battles - even before the boost in monster density (e.g. Teleport). The overuse of cooldowns somewhat reduce the need to manage resource. Using resource or other drawbacks instead of cooldowns is a way to soft-nerf CM without changing any proc coefficients or nerfing CM directly.

    In addition, the base abilities of the skills often aren't good enough past nightmare. It many of runes commonly chosen "fix" the skill rather than reinforce or institute a playstyle or build. As an example, before CM was popular, most players still used Diamond Skin. The trip was, that in Inferno, Diamond Skin wasn't strong enough to last its duration even against trash mobs. So players would simply take the rune that increased the amount of damage Diamond Skin could absorb. That's fantastic, but the other runes weren't used because the increased absorption rune was mandatory to even have that skill on the bar. This kind of one-rune-wonder will kill any build diversity anyone attempts.

    So let me give concrete examples of what I'm talking about to see if you guys agree:
    Frost Nova. Doesn't freeze long enough to get the job done on anything but trash mobs, and if you have low DPS, not even then on modest MPs. Without CM, if you didn't catch everyone you needed to catch with FN, you need to deploy a secondary defense or you're in a world of hurt for the 12(!) seconds it'll take to recover. Instead, let Frost Nova cost 35 AP, with a 4 second cooldown and 3 second duration. Players could use it often, but it would cost them a large portion of their offense. They couldn't use it repeatedly, except with CM, but the cost would make perma-lockdown difficult.

    Another example:
    Archon. No cooldown, cost 50 AP, infinite duration. Archon has a "warm up" period in which its damage is lowered, then a period in which its damage is normal, followed by a period where its damage constantly decreases. Once a player cancels out of Archon, the Archon's power returns to normal over time, but the player is free to enter Archon mode again at any time. To explain it better, consider the player getting a stacking debuff after a certain amount of time in Archon mode, that stacks every so often, and only can be removed, one at a time, by not being in Archon mode for a while. The players figure out how much Archon works in general, and for each situation. Runes can adjust any of these properties.

    Concepts like these are what they need, especially for passives. Tricky to new players? Possibly, but they have three difficulties to figure it out and a whole host of simpler skills. I won't bore everyone by going through each skill and each rune, but this is what I want to see fixed with all of the classes, especially the Wizard.
    Last edited: Aug 31, 2013
  5. Disciple of Erebos

    Disciple of Erebos IncGamers Member

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    I think that what MindGeyser said is partially correct, and partially not. I agree with Blizzard that core skills should be simple to understand, but I agree with MindGeyser that is many (most?) situations, the base skill itself doesn't do enough, and the skill runes exist as a way to 'fix' the skill by adding a new element, rather than completely changing the gameplay of the skill (which was what the 2008 videos explaining skill runes said they would be).

    Given that, I think that the best thing for Blizzard to do would be to change/improve base skills, and then create new skill runes that dramatically change what the skills do, so that you can play a skill in multiple different styles. For example, a new rune idea I had for the wizard is "Disintegrate-Finger of Death," which would change Disintegrate from a projected beam of damage into a high-damage, single target spell (for numbers, let's say 500-600% weapon damage for the same AP cost per second as regular Disintegrate). This would completely change the style of the skill: rather than using it to clear out large groups, it would instead be good for killing tough monsters quickly. Another possible rune idea, using Baal's signature spell against the forces of Hell, would be "Blizzard-Hoarfrost,", changing the Blizzard into a > - shaped frozen plow, damaging, slowing, and knocking back enemies it hits (imagine Baal's Hoarfrost skill from D2, and input with updated graphics here). I think that these kind of dramatic, gameplay-changing runes would do a better job of providing different styles of builds for the endgame.

    As for new skills, I would really like to see more 'reality-warping' style wizard skills. That description of the wizard, a 'child playing fast-and-loose with the primordial rules of the universe,' was what really made me interested in the wizard when I first saw the class. However, even with the many arcane spells we have, we really only have two reality-warping styled spells: Time Warp (screwing with the rules of time/space to create a bubble of slowed time) and Archon Form (transforming from a human into an elemental of pure magical energy). I would like to see more spells that emphasize that kind of reality-warping wizard, preferably emphasizing the powerful, destructive style of the wizard (that of the self-trained, rogue sorcerer playing fast-and-loose with the rules of reality). Some ideas:

    Erase: Consume all AP, dealing high weapon damage per point spent (maybe 25% per point, so a full globe would do 2500%). This would be obscene damage, but you would be completely without AP, so to use this well, you would need to play a build that focused mainly on spells that costed no AP, so that losing all of your AP would not be instant death. The flavor of the spell is that the wizard is internally ret-conning the universe (rewriting history, with the targeted monster never even existing in the first place.)

    Kaleidoscope (unashamedly ripped off of Fate/Stay Night): Summon a copy of yourself with 100% of your max life and 50% of your damage, with a random assortment of 6 wizard skills (at least one offensive skill). While the summoned wizard fights alongside you, if you would die, the summoned wizard instead disappears and you gain life equal to its current life. 120 second cooldown. The flavor of this skill is that you're ripping a hole in the time/space continuum and summoning a random version of yourself from an alternate universe.

    To answer tougeznut's comment about the fire wizard, I'd actually prefer not to have a large focus on elemental magic. The main separation, flavor-wise, between D1/2's Sorcerer/Sorceress and the D3 Wizard is that the Sorcerer/Sorceress were good, dutiful students and learned magic by-the-book (which was mainly elemental magic), while the Wizard didn't want to learn the standard spells and stole the big book of dangerous, experimental, reality-warping magic. Because of this, I feel that the Wizard shouldn't havizze that much elemental magic, because he/she deliberately turned away from that kind of safe, normal magic and instead turned to dangerous, powerful, experimental spells. I think that Blizzard should drastically increase the power of the Passive Skills boosting Wizard elemental skills, but that they should leave the number of elemental skills fairly low. The flavor of the Wizard, at least to me, is someone who knows some of the standard elemental spells from his/her years of study, but doesn't know much more of the elemental arts, preferring to use her knowledge of magical theory to craft new, powerful, dangerous spells, disregarding the potential ramifications of creating and casting these spells.
  6. Koencrazy

    Koencrazy IncGamers Member

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    As much as I love my CM permafrezie Wiz I have never felt like a wizard playing it. That is really sad. AND any other build that I have tried simple does not have the survivability needed to play the game. Either we need some skill (as described above ) that will GREATLY increase our Boom Boom to allow for massive damage spikes(that will let us stay at range) or teleport heaven or become defensive wizards like battlemages. This is the big picture as I see it.
  7. Palandus

    Palandus IncGamers Member

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    Ahh the Wizard. I love the class in concept but unfortunately fails on many levels, unless you are doing an Archon or CM build. I too was a fan of the flashiness of the sorceress in Diablo 2 and would love to see that kind of thing in Diablo 3. I'm kind of blank on "new" skills, but I do have ideas on how to fix current ones. So, without further ado...

    1) Magic Missile = Launches a single missile dealing 125% Weapon Damage as Arcane. Not affected by spells or abilities that slow down projectiles (ie Missile Dampening).
    -> Charged Blast = Missile explodes into a mini arcane explosion when it hits the target dealing 50% Weapon Damage as Arcane to all targets within 10 yds and causes knockback
    -> Split = Splits the Magic Missile into 3 missiles each dealing 75% Weapon Damage as Arcane
    -> Attunement = Each hit generates 5 Arcane Power
    -> Seeker = Missiles will seek out targets. Missiles will remain in existence until it finds a target to hit.

    NOTE: A decent spell, but very limited in its usefulness. The changes should make it better as a last resort ability.

    2) Ray of Frost = Deals 300% Weapon Damage to a single target as Cold damage. Costs 10 Arcane Power and 5 Arcane Power to Channel.
    -> Numb = Instead of reducing movement speed, it instead freezes the target in place for 2 seconds after you stop using the spell.
    -> Snow Blast = Deals up to 500% Weapon Damage to a single target if you continously attack that same target over 1.5 seconds
    -> Cold Blood = Costs 20 Arcane Power but removes the channeling cost.

    NOTE: A decent spell, but only hits a single target at a time. If the channelling cost is reduced it could be used tactically to take down a pack of elites, a boss, or an uber.

    3) Arcane Orb = Release an orb of Arcane Energy. Right before it is about to detonate, it pulls all targets towards it within 30 yds and then explodes dealing 350% Weapon Damage as Arcane to all targets within 10 yds, and then knockbacks all affected targets hit by the explosion. Costs 30 Arcane Power
    -> Obliteration = Deals 425% Weapon Damage as Arcane and completely destroys bodies killed (to prevent monster resurrection)
    -> Arcane Nova = Pulls targets within 45 yds and deals the damage to all targets within 20 yds.
    -> Tap the Source = Enemies killed in the explosion restore 2 Arcane Power per enemy killed.
    -> Celestial Orb = In addition to dealing damage and knockback, targets are also blinded for 5 seconds

    NOTE: Arcane Orb is a terrible spell without any modifications. The Arcane Power cost is too high and the damage is too low.

    4) Disintergrate = Deals 225% Weapon Damage per Second to all targets hit by the Ray. Costs 15 Arcane Power and 5 Arcane Power to Channel it.
    -> Convergence = Thins the ray making it hit less targets, but the ray deals 350% Weapon Damage per Second
    -> Chaos Nexus = Spits out stray energy that deals 75% Weapon Damage to targets hit by it
    -> Volatility = 50% chance to explode dealing 350% Weapon Damage to all targets within 10 yds
    -> Entropy = Turns it into a short range cone dealing 425% Weapon Damage
    -> Intensify = Continously channelling Disintergrate increases its damage to up to 300% Weapon Damage per Second

    NOTE: Disintergrate can be useful for dealing with packs, but you can't stand still for a long time to get the best effects from disintergrate.

    5) Diamond Skin = Transform your skin to diamond absorbing up to 33% of your maximum life that lasts for 5 seconds; 10 Second Cooldown
    -> Crystal Shell = Increases damage absorption to 67% of your maximum life
    -> Prism = Reduces all Arcane Power costs by 25% while Diamond Skin is Active
    -> Enduring Skin = Absorb up to 20% of your maximum life that lasts for 10 seconds
    -> Diamond Shards = When Diamond Skin wears off, it stuns all targets within 10 yds for 1 second

    NOTE: I think that having it set to absorb damage equal to a percentage of your total life rather than a fixed number makes the ability useful for wizards of low HP and high HP.

    6) Slow Time = Costs 25 Arcane Power; No cooldown; Creates a bubble of slowed time that lasts for 15 seconds, slowing enemy attack speed by 20% and movement speed by 60% while in the bubble.
    -> Perpetuity = Reduces enemy attack speed further to 40% penalty
    -> Stretch Time = Allies gain 20% increased attack speed while in the bubble.

    NOTE: A cool ability that is highly limited in usefulness with the long cooldown. Having a high arcane power cost will reduce spamming and allow a player to be more defensive and stay in one spot

    7) Teleport = Costs 25 Arcane Power; No cooldown
    -> Wormhole = Allows you to teleport a second time at no additonal Arcane Power cost within 3 seconds

    NOTE: Another cool ability that is highly limited in usefulness with the long cooldown. Having a higher arcane power cost will reduce spamming but will allow players you need to flee the ability to flee if they have the arcane power.

    8) Hydra = You can have up to 3 Hydras active at one time that each deals 50% Weapon Damage as Fire
    -> Arcane Hydra = 75% WepDam with explosions hitting targets within 10 yds
    -> Lightning Hydra = 100% WepDam to a single target that leaps up to 3 times each leap dealing 75% WepDam
    -> Venom Hydra = Spits venom pools that deal 40% WepDam per Second and last for 5 seconds
    -> Frost Hydra = 85% WepDam and slows targets by 50% for 3 seconds
    -> Mammoth Hydra = 100% WepDam in a line

    NOTE: Having only 1 active that deals very little damage makes this a gimmicky skill. Increasing the number of active Hydras is advisable if you don't want to touch the damage.

    9) Meteor = Creates a meteor that deals 400% WepDam as fire within 30 yds and knockbacks targets hit. 50 Arcane Cost
    -> Molten Impact = Deals 750% WepDam as fire within 30 yds
    -> Star Pact = Reduces Arcane Cost to 25 Arcane and Changes Damage type to Arcane
    -> Meteor Shower = Unleash a volley of 7 smaller meteors that each deals 125% Weapon Damage as Fire and arrives twice as fast
    -> Comet = Deals 500% WepDam as cold with 30 yds and freezes targets in place for 2 seconds instead of knockback
    -> Liquefy = The ground at the impact site deals 125% WepDam as Fire for 5 seconds

    NOTE: A weak spell that has a high arcane power cost that doesn't arrive immediately, but actually about 2 seconds later, sometimes missing the intended target(s). Increasing the damage to compensate for this will make it a better spell.

    10) Blizzard = Deals 125% Weapon Damage per second for 6 seconds to all targets caught within 20 yds. 40 Arcane Cost
    -> Grasping Chill = Reduces movement speed by 50% for 5 seconds
    -> Frozen Solid = 33% chance to be frozen for 3 seconds
    -> Snowbound = Reduces casting cost to 10 Arcane
    -> Stark Winter = Affects an area of 40 yds
    -> Unrelenting Storm = Deals 150% Weapon Damage per Second for 10 seconds

    NOTE: Blizzard can be a potent spell, but it affects a very small area, doesn't deal a lot of damage quickly, doesn't inherently slow targets without the rune, and has a very high arcane cost. In some ways this spell is worse than meteor without any modifications.

    11) Magic Weapon = Increases weapon damage by 15% for you and your allies within 50 yds for 120 seconds.
    -> Electrify = Attacks cause lightning to arc to up to 3 targets dealing 20% weapon damage.
    -> Force Weapon = Increases weapon damage to +25%; no knockback
    -> Conduit = All attacks restore 1% of your resources (1 Arcane Power w/ 100 Max Arcane)
    -> Venom = Attacks poison enemies dealing 10% Weapon Damage per second for 3 seconds

    NOTE: Making this spell affect your allies would encourage players to use it in multiplayer to buff up their party members.
  8. Flux

    Flux Administrator

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    I like the idea of that. Not sure about the particulars, but I like the idea of skills that actually change the build and play style. Not just another color of damage, as so many of them are now.
  9. Palandus

    Palandus IncGamers Member

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    As for new Wizard skills, how about we take some of our favorites from Diablo 2 Sorceress? ie:

    Inferno = Cast forth a line of fire burning all foes caught by it.
    Frozen Orb = Release an orb of energy that spits out frost bolts as it travels to its destination.
    Chain Lightning = Fire a bolt of lightning that jumps to nearby enemies.
    Static Field = Enemy loses 25% of its health.

    Or, alternatively, take some ideas from Dungeons and Dragons for the Wizard class:

    Fireball = Throw a ball of fire at an area and when it reaches its target it explodes violently.
    Dominate Monster = Force a monster to fight by your side
    Summon Monster = Summon an outsider (ie Demon) to fight by your side for a limited amount of time.
    Feeblemind = Make a monster dumber than a dodo bird.
    Polymorph = Transform a creature into another creature that is usually harmless. Like sheep.
    Polymorph (Self) = Transform yourself into some other kind of creature. Usually something bigger and nastier, like a Winged Molok.
    Cone of Cold = Project a magical cone of ice in front of you
    Displacement = Make your form extremely hard to pinpoint making it very hard to be hit.
    Invisibility = Make yourself invisible. Attacking or casting another spell breaks invisibility. Quafing a potion does not.
    Expeditious Retreat = Run very very fast.
    Flight = Make for the skies and fly around the battlefield. Even fly over ditches and rivers!
    Dispel Magic = Remove a magical effect from your opponent
    Antimagic Field = Prevent spells and effects from occuring in this field. Includes your spells, most monster effects, and elite affixes (ie frozen). Great place for your melee-oriented friends to camp out in relative safety!
  10. tougeznut

    tougeznut IncGamers Member

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    II'm really liking DoE's suggestions about the experimental mage. We've had the elements, and mastered them in D2. The resource isn't called Mana anymore, it's Arcane power! Let's see more focus on using arcane skills. Most of the available ones aren't even close to competitive (disintegrate, arcane torrent, arcane orb...bleh). When a wizard channels the arcane energy around them to harness elemental magic, they should be dampening that natural power. Keeping it in it's Arcane form should allow the magic to flow more freely... less inhibited...MOAR POWER!

    Skills like arcane dynamo could boost (specifically) arcane skills beyond what it boosts elemental magic. Those that don't dampen arcane magic should be more powerful and more direct. I'd love to even see new animations for arcane skills where the area around the summoner is warping showing how they're pulling energy from their surroundings.

    Edit: right after posting this I had another idea. How about a passive that allows the wizard to exchange blood for more power. Similar to glass canon where the wizard sacrifices their defenses for more power, but instead this passive will render the wizard unlimited arcane power in exchange for blood. It's kind of treading on witch territory rather than wizards though... I'm thinking something like replenishing your AP pool in exchange for 25% of your health pool. This is something that only the most powerful wizards can harness as it would bring weaker wizards closer to death. The numbers would need tweaking and without significant eHP or sustain the wizard would eventually be extinguished.

    This could be a very risky thing for HC players, or if properly managed through APoC and tons of LS/LoH, it could allow for excessive use of stronger skills for well rounded characters. It would also allow for a much more boom and give the wizard the glass canon feel it's been missing.

    sent from my GalaxySIII
    Last edited: Sep 3, 2013
  11. Disciple of Erebos

    Disciple of Erebos IncGamers Member

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    Thanks. I'm working on a comprehensive list of skill rune changes (at least one rune per skill for all 5 classes). My friends IRL are helping me figure out what effects would work best for each class, but the overall idea is to keep the main idea of the spell, but change the functionality and play style. Do you know how I would put that into a forum? I've lurked for the last 5 years, but I don't really do much on internet forums, and I am unsure how to create a new thread, or where would be best to put it.

    To give you an idea of what kind of stuff I'm trying to do, I'll put a few examples below, and the flavor of the skills.

    Magic Weapon-Bladestorm (adapted from Brother Laz' D2 mod "Median XL"): Summon a host of blades that increase your weapon damage by 10%. In addition, In addition, the bladestorm seeks out nearby enemies, dealing 15% weapon damage per hit. This skill, adapted from Brother Laz' Median XL, summons literal Magic Weapons to help you fight.

    Disintegrate-Finger of Death: Changes Disintegrate from a beam into a single-target, targeted attack dealing an extreme amount of damage per second (for practical purposes let's say 500-600%). For this skill, you keep the idea of disintegrating your target, but decide to focus on one enemy in particular in order to more quickly erase him from existence.

    Corpse Spiders-Host to Many: Enemies dealt damage to by the spiders take 15% weapon damage as poison for 3 seconds. If the enemy is killed before the duration ends, the enemy explodes into 3 new spiders. These spiders deal 60% weapon damage as physical. This Witch Doctor skill focuses on maintaining the fantasy of controlling a horrific swarm of spiders. The spiders you do control infect the demons with their young, and when the demons die, the baby spiders explode out of their corpses and continue the swarm for you.

    Frenzy-Berserker Rage: At 5 stacks of frenzy, your damage increases by 30% and your attack speed increases additionally by 50%. You cannot use other skills while your frenzy is at 5 stacks. This Barbarian skill grants you insane extra damage and attack speed (with the 5 frenzy stacks, it is 30% increased damage and 125% faster attack speed altogether), but stops you from using any other skills, either offense or defense. You must either continue attacking furiously like a berserker, or run away and perform no actions until the frenzy stacks go away and the berserker rage wears off.

    Call of the Ancients-Like Father, Like Son: While the ancients fight alongside you, you have infinite fury and your abilities have no cooldowns. As a Barbarian, The Ancients are your greatest cultural paragons, and while they fight alongside you, you feel their unbridled heroism and might pushing you beyond all natural limits, even for a Nephalem. In my personal opinion, of all of the skills that Blizzard debuted before the game came out, I was most excited to play with Call of the Ancients and Archon Form. Archon Form lived up to my imagination; Call of the Ancients did not. I feel that as is, the skill is complete garbage, and does not even really provide a sense of what a Barbarian would feel like while fighting alongside his/her most legendary ancestors. This skill rune would be meant to provide a real sense of what that would be like, and I think that Call of the Ancients should receive a large buff on its own.

    These kinds of skill runes were really what I was hoping to get out of Diablo III in the first place, and I want to post the list (when it's ready) onto the D3 forums. In a few days I'll post the whole list here, so that if anyone has any good ideas, they can add them to the list. In particular, ideas like Palandus's Magic Missile rune that turns the missile into a mini-arcane explosion are the most welcomed.

    Ironically, one of my Wizard runes was basically this exactly. I'll put it below:

    Energy Armor-Blood Mage's Blessing: Instead of decreasing your max AP, Energy Armor reduces your Max Health by 20%. While Energy Armor is active, you gain 5 addition AP per second, and your damage is increased by 20%.

    The idea was basically exactly what you posted tougeznut: a lesser wizard pays Arcane Power to protect his/her life; a REAL wizard pays his/her life to increase his/her power! Also, great idea about the area around the Wizard warping when using Arcane skills. I would probably drool at the screen when reality started to warp when I cast my spells. You really get what sets the Wizard apart from the Sorcerer/Sorceress: they're using established spells to cause normal effects; you, on the other hand, are playing fast and loose with the rules of reality in a devil-may-care bid to boost your power and wipe out the demon scourge! I agree; we had the elemental mage in D2, so now we should get the unstable, pure-and-dangerous magic-wielding Wizard in D3.
    Last edited: Sep 4, 2013
  12. clueso

    clueso IncGamers Member

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    Broom Ride –put out a broom on which you fly over the battlefield for x seconds
    Starfall –let it rain down stars over the whole screen
  13. Speedster

    Speedster IncGamers Member

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    Overdue thread...

    I've got >1200 hours into a wizard, and a few broad changes I'd like to see:

    1. Get rid of CM/freeze. Yes, I use it, and it makes meteor fun when everything is frozen and you can always hit, but it's gimmicky. But see #2 below...
    2. A wizard should be able to destroy stuff at range. Currently the game doesn't make this viable, because the monsters are very fast and wizard damage is relatively low, so CM/freeze is the only way to stay alive long enough to do serious damage through meteor or other slow but powerful skills. Going toe to toe with everything and freezing the pack is very effective, but not very wizard-y.
    3. Lose archon. If the core skills do a lot of damage, there's no reason to go into another cooldown-dependent mode. Cooldowns hurt the pace of the game, which is why nearly everyone uses CM and stacks crit chance.
    4. Make some of the signature skills (e.g. chain lightning, lightning, etc.) available in an arcane-power-consuming form that does significant damage. These are visually striking skills that most people can't be bothered to use because they do insignificant damage, but they should be the hallmarks of a wizard in classic Dungeons & Dragons style.
  14. Speedster

    Speedster IncGamers Member

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    Fireball was kind of the staple in D&D/AD&D -- Azmodan uses one, so should be doable, but hopefully much faster than his.

    Chain lightning is already in D3.
  15. Disciple of Erebos

    Disciple of Erebos IncGamers Member

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    Speaking as a fellow Wizard player (roughly 400 hours, paragon 61) I completely agree that CM has to go. Freezing stuff is ok; however, once you start freezing everything forever, it becomes a gimmicky cheese-fest. In addition, there are a bunch of cool things to do with skills, especially cooldown skills, that can't really be done with CM a thing. Things with high cooldowns should do incredible things, and right now, even if Blizzard wants to make some kind of incredible skill with a long cooldown, everyone knows that they can't because CM makes a 2 minute cooldown a 20 second cooldown or shorter.

    Also agree with #2. That said, I also think that the battlemage (melee Wizard) should be able to be a thing. Currently, there aren't any real melee Wizards (CM is, but that doesn't count because the whole thing is an invulnerability cheese-build). That said, skills like Arcane Orb need several large buffs.

    As for losing Archon form, I don't really agree with this. I feel that Archon form is a very evocative skill; the effect feels right. That said, I think that Blizzard should remodel Archon form; currently, there are only 3 abilities: one is Disintegrate with a cooler look, one is an instant-speed Explosive Blast, and one is a basic attack which is weak and deals half as much damage as Disintegrate, so nobody ever uses it. First of all, I think that Archon form should have all-new skills, rather than re-skins of old skills. Second, I think that if a basic attack makes it on the list, then it should deal by far the most weapon damage, because unlike the others, it is not AoE, and it requires getting up close and personal with enemies, something that Wizards, especially in Archon form, generally don't want to do. Lastly, I feel like Archon form should have at least 1 defensive skill; even the skill runes don't really add that (Slow Time generally doesn't do enough to defend people, thus why nobody uses it, and Teleport can be used defensively, but at face value it doesn't actually help you defend). Archon form is a good idea, but I think that it was executed badly.

    4. Probably a good idea. We've seen other classes with skills like that (DH Preparation turning into a Hatred Regenerator that costs Discipline instead of a Discipline Regenerator on a cooldown), so it could work to have one rune per signature skill that makes them more damaging, in exchange for costing AP. That said, I think that if there were runes that did that, they should add some additional play effect other than just more damage; a lot of runes already just add more damage or a slightly faster slow, and these runes are basically really boring. I think that a lot of these runes should be scrapped, with new, game-changing runes added in their place. If these game-changing runes also add better damage, great. But damage alone shouldn't be the impetus of a whole rune effect; I feel that that is just lazy design.

    Building upon that idea of new runes, everyone here seems to have a lot of really good ideas. I created a new thread for brainstorming new rune ideas for all 5 classes, so if you have any good ideas, it would be great if you could post them there. Here's the link:

    http://diablo.incgamers.com/forums/showthread.php?848704-New-Skills-Runes-Brainstorming-Thread

    I've already gotten a bunch of new rune ideas from seeing just a few suggestions from people in this thread, and in others like it for the different classes. I'd be especially happy if people who play DH or Monk could post, because I've never played them and I don't have many good ideas for improving their runes.
  16. MindGeyser

    MindGeyser IncGamers Member

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    I like a lot of the rune ideas here and in the other thread, but I really think that the issue with Wizards is even bigger than their assortment of lackluster runes. I mean no disrespect to the effort anyone put in to thinking and transcribing their rune and skill ideas. I too like my CM Wizard, and I too never felt like a Wizard since switching to it. The problem with ditching CM is that a ton of skills suddenly become even less useful than we think.

    Go fire up D3 with your Wizard and drop CM. Pick any 5 skills you want, then take Frost Nova. See how effective it is in Hell+ until you're over-geared. If you've uninstalled, simply count seven and a half seconds - that's minimum amount of time it takes for Frost Nova to be available for reuse without CM - and imagine what could go wrong in that time. With the game as it is now, the ability would have to be some kind of absurdly powerful to be effective in a battle, it would be of limited use in any skirmish after it was used, and you'd better not miss a dangerous enemy as you're down to the other five skills for at minimum seven and a half seconds. One would have to take additional defense options to stagger with Frost Nova to have some means of defense available at all times.

    I could go through a number of skills that are in the same boat (Wave of Force, Diamond Skin). The problem isn't CM, CM is the overpowered fix. The problem is that cooldowns are the real resource, not Arcane Power, and certainly not player ability.

    Using some other method of controlling how often players get to use powerful skills such as Arcane Power costs, or having some form of a drawback, one can fix Wizard skills and gameplay without actually touching CM. All the skill ideas are nice, but I am pretty certain that there'll be more of the same problems without this fix, even if Blizzard implemented a lot of the skill rune ideas themselves.
  17. Disciple of Erebos

    Disciple of Erebos IncGamers Member

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    Perhaps a way to fix the problem that MindGeyser pointed out would be to have each class be able to 'brute-force' cooldowns by paying extra resource to cast the spell again while it is on CD. For example, for the Frost Nova (now to be abbreviated as FN), currently FN doesn't cost any AP, and has a 12 second CD. For my idea, say if FN was on CD and you wanted to cast it anyway, you could pay 30-35 AP to cast the spell even though it was on CD. 30-35 AP is a high amount, so you couldn't just spam FN without CM, but it's low enough that if you were in a bad spot and really needed it, you could brute-force the spell.

    That said, there are (at least) two problems with the system I just developed: 1) does brute-forcing the spell start a new CD, or does it just cost AP, and let the old CD expire? 2) How do you balance this for all the classes? It's pretty unfair to design the Wizard as a class that fundamentally doesn't have to pay attention to cooldowns, so other classes need to have a similar means of brute-forcing their spells. This also gets into the question of, if the way to brute-force spells is tied to the resource pool, how do you do it for the other classes, as their resources differ from the Wizard's (and, with the exception of the Witch Doctor, do not regenerate on their own).

    That said, even with just the new skill options I presented, there are a few ways of getting around this problem. You could make a Frost Wizard; the new Ice Armor rune I made deals cold damage to enemies close to you and gives cold damage from other skills a 25% chance to freeze those enemies for 1 second. You combine this with Ray of Frost-Sleet Storm, to deal damage to enemies in melee range, with a high chance of freezing. Frost Familiar gives you another source of cold damage, and Blizzard finishes the cold combo with the rune that has an extra chance to freeze. Ice Armor (a change I suggested was changing the base skill to have a 30 second CD, then giving it a Diamond Skin-like ability to protect yourself by covering yourself in ice) and Diamond Skin give you protection, along with the Blur passive. Spectral Blade's AP per hit rune lets you quickly recharge AP to fuel the combo. If you have a frost damage weapon, it even helps keep stuff frozen.

    Another possible way is the 'Get-away-from-me' Wizard: use the Blizzard rune Hoarfrost (makes Blizzard act like Baal's Hoarfrost attack from D2) to keep enemies away, then use Explosive Blast-Cataclysm to target an area, trapping the enemies inside that area for 3 seconds when the explosion detonates. Either of two new Familiars are good for this build: the Spectral Guardian, which tanks for you, or the Fire Elemental, which shoots fireballs that knock enemies back. Since the Explosive Blast traps enemies inside a 12 yard area, this seems like a perfect place to use Meteor; use whichever suits your personal preference. At this point, with two skills left, you have some leeway. You could pick a Signature skill with the AP on hit rune, or, if you have enough AP on Crit to last, you could go for more offense power, or a utility spell. To go dangerously, you could take the new Energy Armor rune that sacrifices Max Life for 5 more AP per second (for a total of 13 per second) and 20% increased damage. Whatever your fifth skill is, the last should be defensive in order to outlast situations that you can't control (like Shielding packs or Teleporters).

    With these two builds at least (and others like them possible if you think them up), I think that new runes like this could make the Wizard more competitive even without CM and significant changes to the Wizard's cooldowns. That said, I do agree with you that this is a problem for Wizards, far more so than for the other classes. However, I believe that the majority of the problem could probably be resolved simply by retuning the Wizard's cooldowns and numbers. For example, Diamond Skin now prevents about 10,000 damage and lasts 6 seconds. This is far too little, and so nobody uses the other runes, instead using the one that prevents 20,000 instead. So, if Blizzard changed the skill so that 20,000 was the base skill, and that the other skill increased it to 40,000 (with the rune increasing the length also increasing the blocked damage to, say, 30,000, since extra length by itself is basically useless), then the skill would probably be fine even without a change of cooldown.

    One final, alternate idea, would be a synergy system based on the skill archetypes. For example, Frost synergies, Fire synergies, Lightning synergies, and Arcane synergies for the Wizard (different synergies for different classes, of course). These synergies would be little buffs that reward you for playing with a bunch of skills with the same type. For example, the Frost synergy could be something like "whenever you cast a frost skill, prevent the next 1000 damage dealt to you." This way, by stacking up frost skills, you could build up a good protection for yourself. The wording would have to be changed from my wording, cause right now that would give you infinite prevented damage from casting Blizzard in town, but you get the idea. The other synergies could be something similar: fire spells give you back a bit of life (casting fire spells warms your blood), Lightning spells deal extra damage/enemies around you take extra lightning damage (the air around you becomes supercharged with electricity), and Arcane spells give you a decent chance to dodge hits (your body starts becoming ethereal, due to large amounts of pure magic channeled, so enemy attacks have a chance to just pass through you). Things like this could also work to help mitigate the problem of needing spells that are on CD and not having them.

    Ultimately, though, you're right that one way or another, there's a problem here. Personally, I think that cooldowns on their own are fine, but that they should be a little shorter than they are, or that their cooldowns should scale with difficulty or with level, as the scenario that you have presented is basically active at all times. Thankfully, Blizzard seems to have noticed the problem as well, as Cooldown Reduction % is becoming a new modifier in the game when pre-release patch/Expansion hits (not sure which one the CDR modifier will be in). We know for sure that Paragon Points can be spent to increase CDR, that CDR can spawn as an affix on items (not sure which items yet, though) and lastly that the new gem, the Diamond, grants CDR when placed in the helm. We still don't know numbers yet (though the Paragon Points CDR looked like it was .2% per point, so 10% after 50 Paragon Points spent in it), but the CDR affix may help this issue greatly, especially if we can get into the higher CDR numbers, such as getting up to 40-50% with high-level Diamonds in the helm. As a result, depending on how the CDR numbers look (especially on high-level Diamonds), Blizzard may have found the cure to the issue of cooldowns, or they may have screwed it up again and provided hundreds more hours of forum rage. At this point, only time will tell.
  18. Speedster

    Speedster IncGamers Member

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    Sort of agree, although player ability actually is important if you're not playing an endless CM/freeze wizard. Wave of Force could be a great skill... if you could use it in Inferno without waiting so long. So, yes, cooldowns are the problem.

    I think, I hope, that the more powerful weapons that were teased in the RoS preview will alleviate this a bit. By that I mean that all of the freezing and armor discussion is about how not to die when surrounded. I'd like to see a continual ability to inflict significant ranged damage rather than obsessing over crowd control.

    CDR would certainly help. Or just reduce the cooldowns in the next patch. I think the wizard is on the cusp of being an epic class, but they neutered it with cooldowns and weak signature spells. The gameplay could be amazing.
  19. Wolfpaq777

    Wolfpaq777 Well-Known Member

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    Well one thing that really stuck out to me in some of the first xpac gear screens is the emergence of % cooldown reduction on gear.

    I believe we saw 4% on one piece of gear? Multiply that by the gear slot count and you're looking at 50%+ from gear alone if you focus on stacking it. 4% probably isn't even a perfect roll (hopefully?).

    Then... take the 15% reduction passive. Then... use the source that subtracts 4 seconds from the teleport cooldown. Does this apply before or after the percentage? Let's assume worst case and assume before. 16 - 4 * .3 = 3.6 second cooldown. Take wormhole critical mass and storm armor and maybe you'll crit some guys as you fly by?

    I wonder if we'll get cooldown reduction as part of paragon 2.0

    Your dream just might come true!
  20. Disciple of Erebos

    Disciple of Erebos IncGamers Member

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    I think that it probably makes sense to cap CDR at 40%, the way League of Legends does. Under 40% seems underpowered and uninspired; we have passive skills that reduce cooldowns by 15-20%, so having a cap at 25-30% seems only a little better than a passive skill for all of the work that you need to do to get it. On the other hand, more than 40% (45-50% at the very most) opens the way to abuses, especially if if that 45-50% CDR stacks with the CDR from passive skills. For example, 50% reduces the CD of Wizard skill Frost Nova from 12 seconds to 6 seconds; since the freeze duration is 4 seconds, this really means that Frost Nova only has a CD of 2 seconds. Not only that, there is currently a rune for Frost Nova that decreases the CD from 12 seconds to 9 seconds; using this, half of 9 seconds is 4.5 seconds, so with 50% CDR Frost Nova's effective CD would be only .5 seconds. This is obviously too good; CM Wizard is explicitly being nerfed, and I doubt that they would nerf CM Wizard, only to make that kind of abuse almost as easy, and available not just to the Wizard, but to all 6 classes! Therefore, I think that 40% CDR cap makes sense: it provides enough of a benefit that your skills go off noticeably faster and are much more useful, but does not break the game the way that more that 40% CDR has the potential to do.

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