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D3X Level 70? New DH Skills?

Discussion in 'Demon Hunter' started by Flux, Aug 29, 2013. | Replies: 10 | Views: 9546

  1. Flux

    Flux Administrator

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    Since the max level is going up to 70 in RoS and all the existing classes are getting new skills and passives, I thought it would be a great time to brainstorm some potentials.

    Active skills the sky is the limit, and we can dream up pretty much anything... that said, I think that ideally the new skills would enable new things; new build style, new play approach, etc. Not just better or modified versions of current abilities.

    New passives could enable new builds or styles or plug gaps in the DH's current abilities.

    I'll repeat my oft request for a death-cheating passive. I'd also like to see something for faster movement, whether passive or active. The DH should be the quickest class, and she is very fast if you're using Vault and Tactical Advantage, but in hardcore both of those are luxuries and while my P20 DH is surviving nicely, it's more as a tank than a glass cannon.

    I could see something like Tactical Advantage just baked into the class, or a passive that boosts overall movement speed and does something else useful at the same time. Like +movement as part of Vengeance, so you get a FM boost with every health globe, stacking a bit like the WD's Gruesome Feast. That would be really fun and would encourage pickup radius and faster play, adding some class variety and speed without needing Vault.


    Slightly OT, but it's occurred to me that the double WW Barb isn't so much OP as on the wrong class. If the DH had Sprint and could combine it with Strafe, that wouldn't seem out of place. It would be super fast and very high damage, but dangerous to use on the fragile DH. It's not so much that the Barb has the fastest movement and his best attack is whirlwinds left a screen behind, it's that it seems so out of place on that class, and there's no danger to use it since he's so tanky. Can you imagine something along those lines for the DH, without just ripping off sprint tornadoes directly?




    _________________
    Equivalent threads exist for all classes, if you want to join other speculations. Click the names to visit them:
    Design new level 70 Barbarian, Monk, Demon Hunter, Wizard, and Witch Doctor skills.
  2. Ghoulz

    Ghoulz IncGamers Member

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    It would be nice if they added a way for DHs to keep up their hatred. It's completely unviable unless you happened to get your hands on a high end manticore with 3% life steal to make use of punishment just to maintain the already horribly underpowered strafe skill. Barbs are already tanky and can move even faster than DHs so the whole strafe has a long range is not an excuse as you ARE going to be swarmed eventually and torn to pieces.
  3. Bacchael

    Bacchael IncGamers Member

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    Passive: Jack Be...

    Every time the demon hunter dodges, attack and movement speed increases by X%. Maximum bonus stack is XX% and lasts X seconds. Dodging refreshes duration.

    Passive: Too Slow

    The demon hunter's dodge chance while moving increases by X% for each slowed enemy on screen. Dodging while moving grants X hatred.

    Passive: Premeditation

    When setting a trap or turret, there is an XX% chance per active trap or turret of refreshing all skills on cooldown.

    Passive: Patience

    Triggered traps return XX% of their resource cost for each second they were active. Turrets return X hatred per attack for targets farther than XX yards away.
    Last edited: Sep 1, 2013
  4. Jason Maher

    Jason Maher IncGamers Member

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    The DH needs a serious damage buff. I have a 100k DPS, 48k life Barb who just about matches my 200k DPS, 65k life DH who I have invested a lot more time and funds into building up to that level. That is an indication of flawed design. Apart from the obvious, buffing the DHs active skills in the same way as Rapid Fire, how about a true glass cannon passive? Maybe even call it Glass Cannon. What I'm thinking of is a passive that gives a massive boost to damage, crit chance, crit damage, and attack speed* at the cost of either life drain (ala Sacrifice from D2) or a drop in defensive stats (e.g. a 10% reduction in AR, max life, and armour, applied after all other modifiers).

    *assuming they fix hatred regen and how it is affected by increasing attack speed

    On that note, they really do need to rework the DHs resources. As it currently stands, for most DH builds there is a strong incentive to avoid increased attack speed because it drains Hatred too quickly. Hence the all-pervading Manticore - big and slow and hard-hitting. Make it so that dual wielding fast hand crossbows is actually a competitive choice.

    I really, really hope Strafe gets a lot of attention. It is my favourite skill to use, and would be the build for my main character if RF wasn't so much better at laying the smackdown.
  5. Flux

    Flux Administrator

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    DHs actually get very big DPS, for the gear. Two passives that provide a big DPS boost are very noticeable if you compare to the other Dex class who gets no such boosts from any passives. The DPS display is very deceptive though, in terms of actual killing speed. My newish HC DH is P20 and has about 145k dps, (and I'm not even using Steady Aim, because HC) but she feels much slower than my WD and Monk, who are comparable in levels, have somewhat less expensive gear, and both have considerably lower DPS display. They play so much faster though, since they've got much more AoE and since they rush right up to the enemies and draw them in, and virtually never have to retreat or kite at all.

    DH needs better ways to move fast, or to emit damage in more directions at once, or to leave lingering damage in spots. And yes, Strafe does this, but it's not good enough, compared to other classes. I can imagine some "leaves cyclones on hit" type skill being very useful as you'd just fire it and keep moving, knowing it would finish off the last few trash mobs everywhere. They could tack that on as a passive or put it as a proc on some new DH item.

    What if Vengeance had a Gruesome Feast type property as well, and gave you +movement and +dps stacks instead of just resource refill?

    The other thing I really notice is a lack of burst DPS to burn down bosses. My DH is fine on trash mobs, only slightly slower than other classes, but bosses are much slower, especially if they spread out and I can't get the whole bunch in one stream of Rapid Fire. A simple short term DPS buff would be great, even if it only worked on Elites.

    Ironically, the biggest change I notice on my new DH vs. how the class played many months ago is the tanking utility of the Familiar boar. The buffs from it are nice, but just having something out in front of me to draw the monsters together really speeds things up by grouping them. How about another Sentry rune or skill that did big AoE and also pullled enemies into it, ala Cyclone Strike? Or that could exist as a proc effect on some monster deaths.
  6. Jason Maher

    Jason Maher IncGamers Member

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    They could always give us a proper castable tank as well. Something the monsters will swarm instead of the DH. None of the companions really serve that function in their current form. I want my Valkyrie back, dammit!

    And yes, a passive that boosts damage vs Elites would be nice. Even something like reduce damage against regular monsters by 10% in order to boost damage against Elites by 30% - a passive you'd never use when farming trash mobs for gear, but which would be mandatory if running Ubers or farming Elites for Essences.

    When I said a damage boost, I didn't mean DPS. I know DPS is about as reliable as D2's LCS. I meant effective damage. If my DH is displaying twice the damage of my Barb, she should be doing something close to twice the effective damage, not roughly the same. Buffing skill damage would only be part of that, although a necessary part for many of the DH's skills.

    Also, please get rid of stupid Dervishes shooting my arrows back at me and my allies (and accidentally killing them). Something that no doubt sounded cool when they conceived, but in practice unfairly hamstrings ranged characters and makes it near impossible to run the Act 2 Key Warden.
    Last edited: Sep 3, 2013
  7. chakley

    chakley IncGamers Member

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    Along the lines of the Valkyrie, maybe throw-able target dummy sorta like the old WoW engineering item. That might fit the theme of the DH a little more. Or maybe maybe give the sentry a rune that takes aggro.

    DH should not be forced to tank, but with increased monster density and mp levels, its forced to practically. The DH needs a lot more mob control to support the play-style of quick and fast moving.

    I'd like to see all traps have a much much larger "trap" radius. Smokescreen nerf needs to be reverted since the nerf was to fix orginal Inferno.

    I think the hatred generator shots should have a 30% slow baked in, melee gets 30% dmg reduction, so why not!? A lot of the shots need to be redesigned for increased mob density. For example, Entangling shot needs to affect 4 at a time, and have Chang Gang be increased to 6 or 8. Evasive fire should should hit 3 targets by default, where the Covering Fire rune maybe hits 9.

    Hunting skills seem mostly ok.

    Secondary Skills, rapid fire does too much damage relative to Elemental, Chakram, and Impale. Those 3 need to be brought up to RF's level. Impale just doesn't seem to fit anymore, not sure what to do with that one. Maybe throw 3 or 5 at a time in a wide line?

    I'd like to use Archery skills more, not for more power necessarily , but at least to use fun shots more often. Cluster Shot needs to have its hatred cost halved. Rain of Vengeance needs to have a 10sec cd instead of 30!

    Anyway I like kiting and moving as a playstyle, it just needs to be supported better with more control with so many more mobs now.
  8. Palandus

    Palandus IncGamers Member

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    Hmm new skill ideas:

    -Far Sight = By using this ability you can look far ahead (even past your current viewing area) to analyze threats or benefits afar.
    -Longshot = Used in conjunction with "Far Sight". Shoot a single shot at an enemy far away to lure him in. Agro radius for the shot is smaller and is less likely to pull large groups. Ideal for pulling an elite pack without the mob of 40 enemies near it.
    -Evasion (Passive) [is this name used?] = Can dodge projectiles that normally you wouldn't and increases dodge chance by 15%
    -Shadow Walk = Pass through the shadows to move quickly from one place to another. (Essentially teleport, but less flashy)
    -Touch of Death (Passive) = All of your shots are coated in a deadly poison that deals 25% WepDam per second for 3 seconds
    -Cheap Shot = A close ranged maneuver that hits a target below the belt... painfully. They are stunned for 5 seconds.
    -Unending Hatred (Passive) = There is a chance to gain 5 Hatred everytime you critically hit your target.
    -Planned Defense (Passive) = You steadily gain 1% dodge chance until you reach 100% dodge; when you successfully dodge, it resets.
    -Triple Shot (Passive) = Always fire 3 shots whenever you use a ranged attack of some kind (similiar to Scoundrel ability)

    As to old abilities that could get skill updates...

    1) Hungering Arrow = Generate 4 Hatred
    2) Entangling Shot = Generate 5 Hatred
    3) Grenades = Generate 6 Hatred

    NOTE: All of these abilities only generates 3 Hatred. The other classes with resource generators have different amounts produced for each skill. Should be the same here. Bola Shot, appears to be the most powerful, so it gets 3 hatred generation, whereas grenades appears the weakest so it generates 6 Hatred.

    4) Impale = Hatred Cost reduced to 5; Its a decent ability for dealing with single foes, but its hatred cost is far too high and kills its usefulness.

    NOTE: Impale's runes are fairly good... its hatred cost is not. Since it only usually hits a single foe and does nothing but damage, 5 Hatred should be sufficient.

    5) Rapid Fire = Initial Cost reduced to 10 (was 20); Channeling cost increased to 7.5 (was 6)
    -> Withering Fire = Reduce channeling cost to 5 and change damage type to fire

    NOTE: Rapid Fire is nice and all, but its initial cost is too high, and as a DH, you have to constantly move to avoid dying so you have to start and stop this ability a lot, unless there is a fair distance between you and where your target is. Increased channeling cost to compensate and it makes the Withering Fire rune less of a necessity if choosing this skill.

    6) Chakram = Increase damage to 200% Weapon Damage
    -> Twin Chakrams = Each deals 140% Weapon damage
    -> Serpentine = Increase damage to 275% Weapon damage
    -> Razor Disk = Increase damage to 225% Weapon damage
    -> Boomerang = Increase damage to 275% Weapon damage
    -> Shuriken Cloud = Increase damage to 50% Weapon damage

    NOTE: Why the changes? Because I don't hear of many DHs that use it, and its probably an issue with damage. I don't use it. Though it could be useful against groups.

    7) Elemental Arrow = Remove bow requirement

    NOTE: Yes, it is an "arrow" but as most DHs use either 1H (ie Danetta) or 2H Crossbows (ie Manticore), we can't use this skill EVEN if we wanted to.

    8) Caltrops = Increase duration of trap to 15 seconds and area of effect to 20 yds.

    NOTE: This is a decent defensive ability, but it disappears too fast, and has too small an area of effect to catch enemies. I'd love to be able to set them up in advance, find an elite pack and then kite them back to the traps.

    9) Smoke Screen = Reduce Discipline cost to 10 and duration of effect to 1.5 seconds
    -> Lingering Fog = Increase effect to 3 seconds
    -> Special Recipe = Reduce Discipline cost to 8

    NOTE: Again, this is a decent ability, but it's effect lasts too short and it has a high discipline cost. A single Vault is usually more effective and less discipline costly. Even though you do get this ability at LV 8 (and vault at LV 9), I don't think many use it after vault comes available. (I think)

    10) Shadow Power = Increase to 10 Discipline Cost; 15% of damage done is returned as life for 10 seconds
    -> Well of Discipline = Decrease Discipline cost to 8

    NOTE: Another decent ability with too high a discipline cost.

    11) Vault
    -> Tumble = Decrease Discipline cost to 6 (same value essentially as 8 + 4 = 12 discipline / 2 rolls = 6, however it makes each first roll cheaper.
    -> Acrobatics = Decrease Discipline cost to 2 but have a 3 second cooldown

    NOTE: The two changes are essentially the same to the original, but slightly different. I think most people would like the changes.

    12) Companion = Raven deals 50% Weapon Damage
    -> Spider Companion = Slows target by 60% for 3 seconds and poisons the target dealing 15% over 3 seconds as Poison
    -> Bat Companion = Generates 4 Hatred per second
    -> Boar Companion = Regenerate 1% of Maximum Health per second and have 15% increased resistances
    -> Ferret Companion = Increases GF by 25% and automatically collects gold pickups for you.
    -> Wolf Companion = Deals 125% Weapon Damage

    NOTE: An interesting skill, but most of the abilities aren't buffed enough to justify having them.

    13) Fan of Knives = Hatred Cost increased to 25; Remove cooldown

    NOTE: Great ability. Terrible cooldown. Almost always on cooldown when I need it most.

    14) Spike Trap = Increase number of active traps to 5

    NOTE: Could be could if I could setup a minefield of them. 3 is far too few.

    15) Sentry = Remove cooldown. Have up to 3 sentries active at any one time.
    -> Vigilant Watcher = Each sentry receives double your increased attack speed bonuses and fires faster as a result.

    NOTE: Not many use sentry because of the cooldown and limited number of sentries. The high hatred cost should be sufficient in preventing over spamming of them.

    16) Strafe = Reduce Hatred Cost to 10

    NOTE: The high hatred cost relative to other skills makes it a not an ideal choice as a skill.

    17) Multishot = Reduce Hatred Cost to 20 and deal 175% Weapon Damage
    -> Fire at Will = Reduce Hatred Cost to 15 and deal 175% Weapon Damage as Lightning
    -> Burst Fire = Shock Pulse deals 100% Weapon Damage
    -> Suppression Fire = All targets hit suffer a 50% movement penalty for 2 seconds
    -> Full Broadside = Increase weapon damage to 250% Weapon Damage
    -> Arsenal = Fires 3 Rockets that each deal 100% Weapon Damage

    NOTE: A powerful ability that is highly limited by its Hatred Cost, and as a result limits your rune selection to Fire at Will for it to be reasonable Hatred cost. A reduced Hatred cost overall will make the other runes viable.

    18) Cluster Arrow = Reduce Hatred Cost to 25

    NOTE: Another powerful ability limited in its usefulness with its extremely high Hatred Cost. I think its Hatred cost is the only factor that causes this skill to be a trash skill.

    19) Rain of Vengeance = Reduce cooldown to 15 seconds and Increase Hatred cost to 10

    NOTE: As this ability is centered AROUND you, its usefulness is curbed to preventing enemies from getting too close, rather than placing it amid a group of enemies afar. A reduced cooldown will allow it to be much more useful. A hatred cost will make up for the reduced cooldown.

    ---
    Passive Changes:

    1) Thrill of the Hunt = Every 7 seconds your next Hatred ability costs no Hatred AND immobilizes the target for 2 seconds

    2) Tactical Advantage = Whenever you use Vault, Smoke Screen or preform a backflip from Evasive fire, your dodge chance is increased by 5% for 5 seconds

    3) Steady Aim = As long as there is no enemies within 10 yds, you gain +15% Increased Attack Speed

    4) Cull the Weak = Deal +50% damage against foes below 20% Maximum HP

    5) Night Stalker = Critical Hits have a "chance" (say 25%) to restore 3 discipline

    6) Hot Pursuit = Whenever you are at 100% "discipline" (instead of hatred) your movement speed is increased by +25%

    7) Archery = Bows (+15% IAS), Crossbows (+50% CD), Hand Crossbows (+10% CC)

    8) Numbing Traps = Enemies hit by your traps, suffer a -25% damage penalty for 5 seconds

    9) Custom Engineering = The duration of all your traps + marked for death is increased by 200% AND you can have up to 5 sentries and 9 traps set at any one time.

    NOTE: The change is so drastic to encourage people to play with traps and sentries more.

    10) Grenadier = Increases damage of all grenade type skills (with Grenade in them or in the Rune) by 50% and reduces the Hatred cost of said abilities by 25%. Upon death you drop a giant grenade that deals 1000% Weapon Damage as fire and knockbacks all opponents.

    NOTE: The knockback is there so that in multiplayer games, it may give allies a window to resurrect them. Also as there is only a few runes that offer "grenades" for skills it makes this a build changer passive.

    11) Ballistics = Increases damage of all rocket type skills (with Rocket in them or in the Rune) by 100% and doubles the speed of the rocket so it hits the target faster.

    NOTE: Same with Grenadier, Ballistics is a build changer as there is only a few skills with Rocket in them.
  9. Flux

    Flux Administrator

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    I keep forgetting to mention it, but I'd really like to see a proper tank/melee DH. I mean like sword/shield, using traps, Fan of Knives, etc. Hopefully we can see some variant builds like that for all classes enabled by better gear in Loot 2.0. Much as we got in D2, where certain uniques or runewords specifically enabled new builds via bonuses to one skill or procs.

    Not really worrying about the mechanics, but something like a DH armor or some new legendary weapon that has huge bonus DPS to Fan of Knives, something else that can cut the cooldown to make it spammable, etc. You'd have to build for it; big shield to survive the melee, special gear for enough resource to power it, etc. But that's the fun of a variant build; it requires some work to do it but it's awesome when done well.
  10. Flux

    Flux Administrator

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    Clearly the D3 devs wanted to avoid giving any classes a super durable tank, Valk/golem style, and WD pets were useless upon release. They've since buffed them hugely, but the WD doesn't even really need them for tanks since the class works best in close range mage attacks. Familiar is buffed also, but still not a real tank, mostly due to AI.

    With Elites running right past the pets and towards teh DH, which is sometimes dangerous and almost always slowing/annoying... I think I agree that DH should get a better tank. D2's tanks could be too effective at times, but in D3 with Vortex, Teleporter, Mortar, and other effects that spread widely like Frozen and Arcane I think they've done enough to make ranged attackers not feel overly safe sitting back and blasting away.
  11. Disciple of Erebos

    Disciple of Erebos IncGamers Member

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    My friend mentioned to me a few days ago that the Passive that buffs Rocket skills is really good, but none of the skill runes that make rockets are very good. As a result, it might be a good idea to create some skills that cut out the middle man and just deal damage with rockets. Then the rocket DH might become an actual build, rather than just a curiosity. Possible ideas:

    The Peacemaker: Fires a missile over an area which explodes, raining rockets down on the enemies below for X% weapon damage (think the rocket weapon that Tony Stark previewed at the beginning of Iron Man 1)

    Vault-Broadside: Shoot out 10 rockets at the nearest enemies as you tumble, dealing X% weapon damage. (New rune, turns Vault into an attack)

    Maybe some stuff like that could be useful. I haven't played much of the Demon Hunter, but I sensed from when I looked at the skills most people use on her that the DH doesn't have a lot of AoE spells. Something like the "Peacemaker" idea could give her an edge. Just a thought.

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