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Cull the Weak + Cold damage interaction

Discussion in 'Demon Hunter' started by Neochrome, Jun 16, 2012. | Replies: 23 | Views: 10232

  1. Neochrome

    Neochrome IncGamers Member

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    OK, as title says, I want to know, whether the FIRST hit with +cold damage weapon applies the 15% bonus to total dmg, or you have to really hit already chilled/snared target to get that bonus. Logic says that 15% dmg bonus from Cull the Weak applies only to hitting already chilled/snared target, but Blizzard could have made it the way it first applies debuff (chill/snare) and then damage, even though it looks like damage and snare was applied at the same time ingame.

    Thank you.
  2. Karth

    Karth IncGamers Member

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    I don't think this is really the kind of thing the (guide) tag is for. :/ I don't know the answer to your question, but it would be pretty easy to test with a (very) low level 2h crossbow (for a tight damage range) with cold damage and enough min damage on the weapon.
  3. Neochrome

    Neochrome IncGamers Member

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    Yeah I am sorry with the tag, I thought I have to put my thread in one of them, that it's compulsory... I'm new to IncGamers. I was testing it with my 2h-xbow already, but due to number of rings, amulet and so, the dmg range is quite wide, ok then I will try it on zombies from A1 with some testing equipment. I'll report here, because I think, Cull the Weak can be pretty good passive if it works the way I described earlier.
  4. Karth

    Karth IncGamers Member

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    Okay, so I got bored and tested this. All the skills I tested that did weapon damage seem to apply their snare (whether from the skill or a weapon with cold damage) before the actual damage, so Cull the Weak is applied to damage done on the first shot. I wasn't rigorous by any means about testing every skill, but this points towards good things for Cull the Weak.
  5. Neochrome

    Neochrome IncGamers Member

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    Ah, thank you very much! I was just about testing it myself, and do so anyway, after testing I will report here too, and hopefully support your testing.
  6. lucidlore

    lucidlore IncGamers Member

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    Will also confirm that cull the weak damage is applied on the first shot if that shot snares.
  7. Neochrome

    Neochrome IncGamers Member

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    Yeah, I just tested it, APPROVED! Even the first shot works, that is nice little thing and hopefully it will kick that overrated Sharpshooter passive *** :) Tested on basic arrow attack, Hungering Arrow, Evasive Fire and Multishot, so it should work on the rest of our (nonelemental) skills as well. I can see now, the placement of elements into attacks makes complete sense, at least for balance purposes. Now I know why Multishot/Fire at Will is elemental (lightning), without it, +cold damage weapons will have great advantage, and there are more examples like this :)

    Thanks to everyone involved.
  8. Neochrome

    Neochrome IncGamers Member

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    Hehe, and after this discovery, you can say it is a small Guide to debuff placement mechanics in Diablo 3.
    :)
  9. Neochrome

    Neochrome IncGamers Member

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    Nice thorough testing came from PEDDROELM on eu.battle.net forums:

    Yes - like the Wizard passive Cold Blooded the damage bonus applies on the first hit ... (you will notice when doing cold attacks - tooltip reads snared first and damage number for the attack after)

    How I tested ...

    Crossbow with 78-78 physical damage range (doctored with +min physical damage items)
    716 Dex

    Normal Attack damage
    78 * (1 + 7.16) = 636.48 (636)

    Elemental Arrow - Frost Arrow (155% first hit 170% secondary hits)
    78 * (1 + 7.16) * 1.55 = 986.544 (987)
    78 * (1 + 7.16) * 1.7 = 1082.016 (1082)

    Elemental Arrow - Frost Arrow (155% first hit 170% secondary hits) WITH Cull the weak
    78 * (1 + 7.16) * (1 + 0.15) * 1.55 = 1134.5256 (1135)
    78 * (1 + 7.16) * (1 + 0.15) * 1.7 = 1244.3184 (1244)

    ---------------
    So skills that do cold damage (Ex. Elemental Arrow - Frost Arrow) or physical damage with cold damage range on weapon (Ex hungering arrow ) will always get the 15% damage bonus from Cull the weak ...
    --------

    Last test - adding a regular damage modifier (steady aim 20%) to see how it interacts with the bonus from cull the weak...

    Elemental Arrow - Frost Arrow (155% first hit 170% secondary hits) WITH Cull the weak & Steady Aim (20%)

    78 * (1 + 7.16) * (1 + 0.15) * (1 + 0.2) * 1.55 = 1361.43072
    78 * (1 + 7.16) * (1 + 0.15) * (1 + 0.2) * 1.7 = 1493.18208

    As expected the bonus from Cull the weak (15%) is applied to the base damage before the sum of regular damage multipliers (archery, steady aim, ..) (similar to Cold Blooded for wizard) and is thus multiplied by them ...
  10. Neochrome

    Neochrome IncGamers Member

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    Multiplication between Steady Aim and Cull the Weak makes latter even slightly better than expected by me. Good, good :]
  11. ApOgedoN

    ApOgedoN IncGamers Member

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    hi, first post ;)
    so when i buy/find for a weapon with cold dmg (eg. 1000dps) i get with Cull the Weak a weapon equally with 1150 dps?
    Is there a slow on every hit with a +cold weapon or a % chance?
  12. Karth

    Karth IncGamers Member

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    Yes, except that you had to give up a passive slot to make them even again. It might be worth it for a 60% 1 second snare on everything though.

    Slow on hit with a cold damage weapon applies to every hit, assuming you're not using a skill that has a damage type.


  13. ApOgedoN

    ApOgedoN IncGamers Member

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  14. Karth

    Karth IncGamers Member

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    None of those will apply the slow effect; they all convert your weapon's damage to the Physical type.

    You're looking for skills that deal '% weapon damage' to their targets.


  15. Catchafire

    Catchafire IncGamers Member

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    This would be more viable if I could get more shots off. Is IAS completely worthless now???
  16. Catchafire

    Catchafire IncGamers Member

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    After playing with this build for sometime now, I think it's best suited for playing in a party than going solo. Not to mention that it is inferior to crit builds that do not take into consideration cull the weak.
  17. Neochrome

    Neochrome IncGamers Member

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    Main downside of builds around Cull the Weak is, that +cold damage has smallest damage range amongst other elements (arcane, fire, poison...). Where weapons of the same level have for example +50-100 arcane/fire/poison damage, COLD damage has only +30-70. It is more imminent on higher levels (45-60), where you can feel +cold damage weapons have much less DPS. And 1s 30% snare will never compensate for this high damage loss. I switched Cull the Weak for TA now, mobility is needed on Inferno now.
  18. Valhauros

    Valhauros IncGamers Member

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    Felt like I should correct this. While I don't know if its intended or know, the chill effect can be applied by almost any skill. Regarding the DH in particular, I have seen sentry apply it, same as Fan of Knives, Serpentine Chakram and even Caltrops (Jagged Spikes). Also, my enchantress also has a frost damage weapon and, while all her attacks are considered (as far as I know) as arcane type, see has been able to chill enemies.

    Back to the original topic, I would say that you should only use Cull of the Weak if you are also using Caltrops, Spider Companion or Fan of Knives, specially if in conjunction with Valley of Death.


  19. Neochrome

    Neochrome IncGamers Member

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    Well, I have tested Chakram, all runes, and it does not give any chill (snare) effect from my xbow. It's just plain Physical dmg type, whether you have +element damage weapon or not.
  20. Karth

    Karth IncGamers Member

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    The Enchantress's basic attack probable just does % weapon damage; a lot of people use it for slowing enemies. I've never had her Forceful Push or Erosion slow my enemies. Sentry, Fan of Knives, and Caltrops (Jagged Spikes) all deal "weapon damage" so they do not change the damage type of your attack; if you deal cold damage, your attacks with these apply the cold snare.

    Serpentine Chakram may be either a bug or some other error, but I have never seen it apply a chill effect. I have also yet to see any other DH skill that does not deal "% weapon damage" (barring skills that convert to cold damage, obviously) apply cold damage chill. Skills seem to be pretty consistent about this.


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