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concentrate with hammerdin? how?

Discussion in 'Paladin' started by brassguy, Jun 26, 2012. | Replies: 21 | Views: 4487

  1. brassguy

    brassguy IncGamers Member

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    I recently made my first ever attempt at a hammerdin. I've read that concentrate is supposed to increase the damage of hammers - but I don't understand how. you can't use blessed hammers while any aura is on, right?

    Sorry if this has been asked elsewhere - I searched and couldn't find it.
  2. Krupa

    Krupa IncGamers Member

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    put the hammer on the left mouse button and the aura on the right mouse button. have fun with your new char
  3. hubb

    hubb IncGamers Member

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    Handy hint: Unless you select a monster you'll just walk to the spot where you left-click, using shift + left-click prevents this.
  4. brassguy

    brassguy IncGamers Member

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    wow thanks guys. I appreciate the speedy advice. wish I hadn't maxed out holy shield first then! wonder if I should reset my stats now. just 1 point into concentrate has more than doubled my damage now with this advice!

    So with concentrate - what's so good about infinity for merc, since wouldn't your concentrate be more powerful? or do people with infinity mercs not put points into concentrate?
  5. chenw

    chenw IncGamers Member

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    Infinity works best with Lightning skill based characters, most popular ones being LF Zons and Chain Light Sorcs. The reason for this popularity is because Lightning resistance, due to how the game determines Immunities, and the way Fire/Cold res apply to monsters, Lightning Immune monsters are the easiest to break immunity with Conviction, which Infinity provides.

    As a Hammerdin, Infinity does absolutely nothing to your benefit (and neither do Lower resist, which covers more elements than conviction).

    Hammerdin's work purely because Concentrate (and ONLY Concentrate) affect Blessed Hammer's damage, thus it is extremely important to have maxed Concentration and max Hammers along with Hammer's Synergies.

    Take note though, having two different auras from two difference sources will allow your character to benefit (or take harm) from both Auras. So for example, if you have an act 2 Might Merc and you turn on your Concentrate, you and your merc will benefit from both Might and Concentrate.

    However, I must stress it again, Blessed Hammer's damage is ONLY boosted by Concentration, all other effects do NOT affect Hammer. EG. Might, Fanaticism, Lower Resist, Amplify Damage, Conviction, Decrepify etc, none of the listed skills affect Hammers.
  6. hubb

    hubb IncGamers Member

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    ^I think he meant Pride rather than Infi :p

    On a hammerdin your own aura can be a much higher level so Pride doesn't really make sense there. It is good when you don't use Concentration yourself, though the Decrepify from Reaper's Toll is usually better for melee chars. You can also make hammer/zeal hybrid builds using Pride - you can run either Fanaticism or Conviction as your main aura, plus spend some point in hammer.
  7. chenw

    chenw IncGamers Member

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    True, but I am usually not a fan of mixing two completely different styles of play into the same single character (such as what was suggested, mixing Hammers with Zeal, or mix skill gear dependent style with damage gear dependent one), as I for one hate the gear switching between the two, and second, it is often more effective to have your character do one thing and not two at the same time, especially since your character has a set limit on skill points (with absolute maximum of 110 hard points available).

    If I were to follow with hubb's suggestion, then I would just pickup Fanaticism and forget about Zeal, since Fanaticism works very well with Smite, so you can turn your Hammerdin into an Uber Smitedin without having to build a completely new character. You can also nearly max Fanaticism without touching anything else (since Concentration is the only prerequisite of Fanaticism, 19 points can be put into it without having to touch any other skills).

    Of course, you wouldn't have the same hammer damage output. The difference I come out with is approximately 33% difference:

    Assuming you have +18 to all skills (Shako, Mara, HotO, Engima, HoZ, 2x SoJ, Arach, Anni and Ptorch), a maxed concentration (level 38) would give 307.5% damage boost to hammers, resulting in 407.5% damage hammers. A max Pride concentration (level 20) gives 172.5% damage to hammers, so hammers is boosted to 272.5% of the original. 272.5/407.5 = 66.87% approximately. [NOTE: Concentration only gives half of its listed damage boost to Hammers, so if you had a level 20 Concentration, which gives 345% ED, Hammers would only receive 345%/2 = 172.5%]

    That being said, if you have the kind of gear mentioned above, if you do pick up Fanaticism, then Pride is only better if and ONLY if the Concentration level roll on it is perfect (level 20, compare this with level 19 you would get with just a level 1 Conc with all of the skill items above). So in effect, you'd be paying 3 HR's (which includes a Lo) and 33% of your hammer damage to use a near maxed Fanaticism. Given the rune costs, I'd be actually more tempted to try using Beast rune word (for its level 9 Fanaticism) rather than Pride. That way I would still retain my high damage hammers, and still gain most of the Attack speed offered by Fanaticism.
    Last edited: Jun 27, 2012
  8. Namtar

    Namtar IncGamers Member

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    Might and Blessed Aim are prerequisites to Concentration, so it actually takes 23 points to max Fanaticism, although I don't know why you wouldn't max it if you're going to use it. Fanaticism is a very powerful aura.

    For Hammerdins, I don't see the point in bothering with Fanaticism at all. You already have Concentation maxed and it isn't that hard to max the attack speed of Zeal or Smite if you use a phase blade with a runeword that increases attack speed. Your maxed Concentration, which you already have for hammers, will add way more damage than a low-level Fanaticism would. I guess you could drop a Blessed Hammer synergy in order to max Fanaticism, but it seems like a waste.


  9. hubb

    hubb IncGamers Member

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    On a hammerdin, certainly, I didn't mean to imply otherwise or suggest that he do it. It's unnecessary as they don't really have immune problems, and 1pt Smite with just one gear change (Grief PB) is very effective. I just mentioned the hybrid since it's a build where I've seen Pride being put to good use.
  10. Namtar

    Namtar IncGamers Member

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    Yeah, I don't think I've seen hybrid builds with Pride, although I'm sure it works. I use a Grief PB/Exile Vortex switch myself and melt magic immunes easily. With Pride you wouldn't get such huge damage on hammers, but I guess you'd get a pretty nasty Zeal. No Holy Shield though.
  11. chenw

    chenw IncGamers Member

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    A problem with Pride is that it has no ED on the weapon whatsoever, so Merc survivability (due to lower leech) may become an issue.

    Plus Grief zealots already kill at a very fast pace, so I am not sure if I'd want to go through the bother of keeping my merc alive just for the Concentration (I probably won't use Might merc due to how fragile mercs would become without freeze).
  12. Namtar

    Namtar IncGamers Member

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    In this case, Pride would actually not be on the merc at all. Or rather, it could be, but that would be rather pointless. The Concentration aura only actually enhances the damage of Blessed Hammer cast by the character that is the source of the aura. A paladin wielding Pride does get enhanced damage on his hammers (at least he does according to the LCS, but I've never actually tested it because it's a silly idea anyway). If he gives it to his merc, his hammers do no more damage than if there were no Pride involved.
  13. Krupa

    Krupa IncGamers Member

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    if two hammerdins party up, only one needs to run concentration and both benefit. if the merc would wield the pride, your blessed hammers damage would increase

    i made a hammer/zeal hybrid not long ago with concentration as main aura. you only need 52 ias to reach the last break point with an phaseblade and i still had 7k hammers while wearing an forty (25 fcr ftw!)
  14. Namtar

    Namtar IncGamers Member

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    I recall reading somewhere that this is NOT the case, but I can't remember where. However, before I wrote my previous post I did test what the LCS said for my hammerdin's Blessed Hammer damage with the paladin holding Pride, with the merc holding Pride, and with Pride in my inventory, all while Enigma's Teleport was selected for my right mouse button (so my native Concentration aura couldn't interfere). According to the LCS, there was no difference between Pride being on my merc and Pride being in my inventory (or on the ground), but there was an increase in damage when Pride was equipped by my hammerdin. That seems like a confirmation of what I read before, but it's possible that what I read before was erroneous and was based on LCS numbers (in one of the many cases of the LCS earning its name). I'll try to actually test the difference later, but that will require more effort. Are you sure that Concentration originating from a merc boosts the damage of the paladin's Blessed Hammer?


  15. Krupa

    Krupa IncGamers Member

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    if the mercenary is wielding pride the increase in damage will only take affect if you leave town. like the active might or meditation aura from your mercenary or any other aura from partied allies will only have an effect on you while your not in the rogue camp, lut gholein, kurast docks...my guess is that this causes the problem
  16. Namtar

    Namtar IncGamers Member

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    Alright, I just tested it and yeah, it really does work. The damage is still not as high as what I would get from my paladin's native Concentration aura. Actually, it's not even close, which I guess is just because of +skills from gear. So now it occurs to me to wonder, if one insists on this sort of hybrid (not to my taste, personally: I can hit "W" while playing my HotO/HoZ hammerdin and suddenly switch to a Grief/Exile Concentration Zealot that kills everything easily, so hybridizing doesn't seem worth it), why Pride? Why not use the paladin's Concentration aura and have a Faith merc? Blessed Hammer would do a whole lot more damage that way, and Zeal would still benefit from both Concentration and Fanaticism.
  17. hubb

    hubb IncGamers Member

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    The hybrid was mainly a Zealot with hammers for AoE damage where it's most effective (big clumps in CS, for example). A Might merc with 20 Pride plus level 30 Fanat nets you 230 + 345 + 543 = 1118 ED, while the Beast setup gets you 144 + 495 = 639. If it's mainly a hammerdin (in which case, yes, a hybrid that deviates greatly from the standard build makes less sense) then native Conc is probably the way to go. The Fanat from Faith is kinda unnecessary as it's easy enough to reach the last BP with a PB (37 Grief + Highlord's + IAS jewel), plus you don't get much ED from it and give up an A2 merc aura.

    *Yes, ED from Pride is applied all the same no matter the source. The highest level aura is always applied.
    Last edited: Jun 29, 2012
  18. Namtar

    Namtar IncGamers Member

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    Eh, if you're dumping points into Sacrifice and Fanaticism for a powerful Zeal, you don't have enough for Blessed Hammer synergies and your Zeal will tear through big clumps faster than than your weakened Blessed Hammer. And if you do bother investing in powerful Hammers, you might as well go all the way and invest in Concentration, because yeah, Fanaticism is better, but it's not that much better. Well, I suppose I'm exaggerating. There's going to be some sweet spot where one skill starts being faster at killing than the other and I'm sure it's all doable. I guess if you want a physical damage Zealot and you really hate unbreakable physical immunities...

    If this part is directed at something else someone said earlier in the thread, then sorry, I missed it. But if it's because of what I was saying, uh, I didn't mention Beast. I mentioned Faith. Higher level aura and it could go on a mercenary, so it doesn't take up the paladin's weapon. The part about having to give up the Might aura from the merc is true, though.


  19. Krupa

    Krupa IncGamers Member

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    i used the following set-up 1 month back to guardian a paladin

    grief/gris shield
    dual spirit 35%
    guilliaumes
    forty
    LoH
    SoE
    gores
    raven
    fcr ll ring
    2 pala 20 fcr amu

    might merc with insight

    BH, vigor, BA, Conc maxed
    remaining in sacrifice

    the char tore through everything with ease
  20. hubb

    hubb IncGamers Member

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    Ye, I meant to say (and was thinking of) Faith and not Beast.

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