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Cold Mastery?

Discussion in 'Classic' started by eggo, Nov 3, 2005. | Replies: 30 | Views: 20473

  1. eggo

    eggo IncGamers Member

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    Cold Mastery?

    Is cold mastery worth investing in? Currently have a lvl36 Blizz sorc. I have lvl10 warmth, lvl5 static, 13 in blizzard and 6 in glacial spike. I plan on maxing blizz,glacial,and iceblast first. then another 5-10 in static. and the rest in icebolts, or cold master if it's worth it, since 5% isnt much from synergies..lemme know.
  2. Noite Escura

    Noite Escura IncGamers Member

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    Yes it's important. I would suggest getting at least one point before maxing a synergy. Then get it at level 17 after +skills, and only after that pump the second synergy. If PvM of course. For PvP it must be maxed out.
    May I ask why 10 points in Warmth? If Blizzard is going to be your main skill I don't see why you would need that much. Unless you plan to teleport alot.
  3. stanzaman

    stanzaman IncGamers Member

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    Why do you say level 17? Is there some kind of cutoff there I should know about which means extra points in it are less effective? I'm building an Orb/TS sorc and I maxed orb and cold mastery, and currently working on thunderstorm and lightning mastery. I wasn't even planning on putting points into ice bolt as it only provides a measily 2% damage per level for orb - atleast not until I get into the high 80's and don't have any other place to put the points.
  4. eggo

    eggo IncGamers Member

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    Oh crap..thinking about it now, it was a waste in warmth lol..damn haha..guess I'll have to rebuild..again
  5. purplelocust

    purplelocust IncGamers Member

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    At lvl 17, cold mastery gives -100% to monster's cold resistence. Monsters can have no lower than -100% cold resistence (giving double listed damage) so additional points in cold mastery beyond 17 don't increase the damage to monsters with a base 0 cold resistence. Additional points do help with monsters that have higher cold resistence, particularly Meph. The point is made very well by sasja, quoted in this CL/FO sorc dii.net strategy guide amoung other places:

    http://strategy.diabloii.net/news.php?id=562

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by sasja
    Why Frozen Orb and Cold Mastery?
    1.10 has made the Sorceress' skill points incredibly tight by introducing synergies. Each tree has at least one attack with 3 synergies, which - if maxed - will get the damage of that attack to incredible heights. But maxing this attack to the full will cost you 20 skill points in the attack itself, 3*20 skill points in synergies, and another 20 points in the relevant mastery, so this requires 100 skill points out of 110 being ultimately available at level 99 - a level most of us will never reach! Having a cold spell which slows the fast monsters i Hell is invaluable, and Frozen Orb is a bargain. It only has one synergy, which is not powerful enough to really be necessary, kicks *** all the way through Nightmare, and does decent damage in Hell. Furthermore, the unique function of Cold Mastery makes a few points go a long way. Each skill point in Cold Mastery will increase the percentage which will be subtracted from your opponent's cold resistance before calculating the damage, down to a minimum of -100%. Only cold immune monsters cannot be affected by Cold Mastery. Let's run a few examples to see how useful this really is. I'll compare skill level 0, 1 (giving -30% to the monster's cold resistance), 7 (giving -50%), 17 (giving -100%) and 27 (giving -150%) in Cold Mastery, assuming an average of 265 damage pr shard for Frozen Orb.


    Monster with 0 in cold resistance:
    Cold Mastery 0 (0%): 265 * (100 + 0)/100 = 265
    Cold Mastery 1 (20%): 265 * (100 + 20)/100 = 318 (improvement of 20% - not surprisingly)
    Cold Mastery 7 (50%): 265 * (100 + 50)/100 = 398 (improvement of 50%)
    Cold Mastery 17 (100%): 265 * (100 + 100)/100 = 530 (improvement of 100%)
    Cold Mastery 27 (150%): 265 * (100 + 100)/100 = 530 (improvement of 100% - remember that -100% is the lower cap)


    Monster with 75 in cold resistance (for instance Mephisto):
    Cold Mastery 0 (0%): 265 * (100 - 75 + 0)/100 = 66
    Cold Mastery 1 (20%): 265 * (100 - 75 + 20)/100 = 146 (improvement of about 120%)
    Cold Mastery 7 (50%): 265 * (100 - 75 + 50)/100 = 199 (improvement of about 200%)
    Cold Mastery 17 (100%): 265 * (100 - 75 + 100)/100 = 331 (improvement of about 400%)
    Cold Mastery 27 (150%): 265 * (100 - 75 + 150)/100 = 464 (improvement of about 600%)
  6. Noite Escura

    Noite Escura IncGamers Member

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    Exactly! As majority of monsters or are Immune or have 0 cold resistance, beyond lvl 17 will be effective at most against bosses. The 3 points your invested to lvl 20 are not exactly a waste, in the example above, you would get 371 dmg for level 20, 12% more than lvl 17 against Mephisto, but if you invested them in synergy you would get 6% (2 for each point) more damage i.e. Its a question on whether to get 12 avg more against some monsters(mostly bosses) or get 6% more against all of them.
    In short, if you plan to do a Pure cold sorc for MF, it may be worth maxing cold mastery, as it is for PvP, since players use to have max resistances. Otherwise lvl 17 and rest in synergy.

    Edit: It's important to notice that if you have +5 to all skills, 12 points in CM would be enough and in the example above, would leave 8 points to invest in synergy making it even more worthwhile.
  7. shag

    shag IncGamers Member

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    i think this should be stickied, really useful information.
  8. eggo

    eggo IncGamers Member

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    Hmm interesting, now I feel like just making a orber..so..Max Orb/synergy and mastery? Rest in..static/warmth and teleport?
  9. shag

    shag IncGamers Member

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    static to me is a one-point-wonder, teleport too. i'd put more points into warmth over the two. and when going frozen orb build, i would allocate my points this way, twenty points into frozen orb, twenty ice bolt (synergy), seventeen cold mastery (including + to skills items), one point into frozen armor, one point warmth, one point static, one point teleport, one point energy shield, remaining points into telekenesis for energy shield syngery (reduces mana taken from hit)
  10. Dacar92

    Dacar92 Community, Amazon, DH Moderator; Clan Officer West

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    Stickied for a while. :)
  11. eggo

    eggo IncGamers Member

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    Thanks Dacar, I was wondering where the thread went lol..

    Hmm, but I don't plan on using energy shield cus it drains mana instantly..just as bad as mana burn.. I mean, maybe in hc I'd consider it, but I tihnk it's a waste in normal..
  12. Zodijackyl

    Zodijackyl IncGamers Member

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    You always want cold mastery maxed. For blizz I think I did the skills Blizz>CM>Blast>Bolt>GS

    Also, for blizz you should try to keep as many points to blizz+synergies as possible. My level 90 blizz sorc has 20 points in blizz+cm+bolt+blast and 18 in gs, one each in telep+telek. Im thinking I'll add warmth next level, and still be able to max all skills at 93. Static I didn't put a point in because I intend for this to eventually be a PvP sorc.
    Orb works well for a versatile sorc because you have about 35 more free points than with blizz. Orbers work well with TS or ES builds, or just having more points to add warmth, static, teleport, or whatever you want.
    For blizz the most outside of blizz/syns/cm you would want to add is one each in warmth, static, telek/telep
  13. Immortality

    Immortality Banned

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    All my past orb builds were maxing out orb, cm and ice bolt. 1 into warmth, tele, and static. 4 into ES and the rest went into telek.

    To put nothing into static is your choice. I would rather have one invested into for boss killing and thus more and faster exp.

    Warmth, all you need is one, for your + skill points from your items add to its effects.
  14. Immortality

    Immortality Banned

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    What do you plan on doing? Pvp or Pvm?

    If your going the pvp route... and don't use es... you might as well put a "Im Going to get pwned" sticker on your forehead.

    There is a huge different between mana burn and es... mana burn just takes away mana... with no benefit to you whatsoever. ES can save your @$$ in very tight postions.

    But there is a downside to es, if you where happening to be the one to teleport in a cs run and accidentally teleport into a massive gathering of monsters... the monsters hits would drain your mana and thus have no mana to teleport again. But then again... If you didn't invest into es, and found yourself in the same situation you'd get slaughtered by the monsters(just quicker)

    Since they do SELL mana pots in town... mana isn't a huge deal anymore. Just when you take a hit, just chug down a blue elixer and your fine.

    If you do fear that one hit WILL magically make your mana disappear just put less into es. I suggest 4 points should suffice.


    Since going with the orb, its wise to pick energy shield. Which is more important... gaining small amounts of exp or losing a whole bunch?
  15. purplelocust

    purplelocust IncGamers Member

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    Or for those frugal with skill points, finding/buying a +3 energy shield staff (or a +2 all sorc +3 energy shield staff or something along those lines) will work well. Then you can just put points into Telekinesis and save on the prereqs to Energy Shield. I find one nice thing about a decent level energy shield is the duration, though, as if you have to switch gear to cast it and you are constantly recasting, that can be annoying. A level 8 (+3 ES Staff with +2 Sorc skills, +tarn +1 sorc ammy + someone else's Battle Command) gives a duration of 564 seconds, almost 10 minutes and longer than BO/BC usually last, and I find that quite a good duration. If I find a skill shrine, though, I'm happy to remember where it is to improve the duration.

    One thing that is worth mentioning with Energy Shield is that using it reduces the dependence upon resistance gear, since resistances (positive or negative) are applied after the energy shield reduction. So having negative resistances is no longer the certain death that it usually is. Poison is a pain, but antidote potions are much cheaper than a full set of resistance gear. This is particularly useful for an MF sorc as it will free up inventory to concentrate on MF gear. And it works well for a single-tree sorc with a skill that doesn't require a lot of synergies to be effective, since there will be some extra skill points. A single-tree sorc can't solo hell effectively but for MFing in NM, Orb works well without the synergies, just Cold Mastery.
  16. purplelocust

    purplelocust IncGamers Member

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    Level 17 Cold Mastery will increase the damage of cold spells against all (non-cold-immune) monsters, but even once you are at 17, it may be more effective to continue to increase it rather than the synergies, depending upon whether or not you are likely to face cold-resistant monsters.

    Here is a small calculation to illustrate the importance of cold mastery, even beyond level 17:

    suppose you have an Orb sorc with her skills as follows: 20 Frozen Orb 1 Ice Bolt (as a prereq) 14 Cold Mastery

    and you have +3 sorc skills total, giving level 23 FO with one synergy which gives 310-326 cold damage for each shard and level 17 CM. Should you add an additional point in CM or in Ice Bolt?

    Results of putting an additional point in Ice Bolt:

    For facing normal monsters with no cold resistance, you would have the 2% increase from the additional ice bolt synergy, giving 316-333 damage per shard, doubled by the cold mastery (0% resistance - 100% from level 17 CM = -100% resistance, the max, which doubles damage) and gives 632-666 per shard.

    For facing normal monsters with some cold resistance, say, a Hell Council Member (which has 33% CR according to http://www.battle.net/diablo2exp/monsters/act3-councilmember.shtml ), you would have the 2% increase from the additional ice bolt synergy, giving 316-333 damage per shard, affected by the cold mastery (33% resistance - 100% from level 17 CM = -66% resistance, which increases damage by 66%) and gives 524-552 per shard.

    For facing monsters with a lot of cold resistance, like Meph at 75% in Hell, the calculation gives 316-333 * (1.25)= 395-416 per shard.

    For facing cold immune monsters with barely broken immunities (say a 110% immune monster under the effect of level 15 lower resist (which gives -60% to resistance, which is divided by 5 when breaking the immunity to give -12% resistance, gives 98% resistance or perhaps 90% resistance, depending upon whether or not the divided by 5 penalty continues to apply after the resistance is broken) the effect is 316-333 * (1.02) = 322- 340 damage or 316-333 * (1.10) = 348-366 damage per shard



    Results of putting an additional point in Cold Mastery:

    For facing normal monsters with no cold resistance, you would have no change, since resistances cannot go below -100%, giving 316-333 damage per shard, doubled by the cold mastery (0% resistance - 105% from level 18 CM = -100% resistance, the max, which doubles damage) and gives 610-652 per shard.

    For facing normal monsters with some cold resistance, say, a Hell Council Member, you would have the 5% additional reduction from cold mastery, giving 310-326 damage per shard, affected by the cold mastery (33% resistance - 105% from level 17 CM = -71% resistance, which increases damage by 71%) and gives 530-557 per shard.

    For facing monsters with a lot of cold resistance, like Meph at 75% in Hell, the calculation gives 310-326 * (1.30)= 403-423 per shard.

    For facing cold immune monsters with barely broken immunities as above, the effect is 310-326 * (1.07) = 338-359 damage or 310-326 * (1.15) = 356-375 damage per shard.

    The point is that the synergy increases the base damage, but the additional point in cold mastery uses the same base damage but will decrease the resistances in all cases except those which have no cold resistance of any kind. If your Orb sorc is going to only be facing monsters with no cold resistance, then the additional point in CM is wasted, but if she is facing a mix of normal and resistant monsters, then the additional point in CM is better spent.

    One key fact here is that the synergy bonus for Orb is Ice Bolt, which is pretty useless and gives only a 2% synergy bonus. For Blizzard, the computation is often the other way around- the synergy bonuses are 5%, which will give greater damage than an additional 5% reduction for monsters whose resistances are already in the negative zone from level 17 cold mastery. Furthermore, the skills that Blizzard synergizes with are more useful than Ice Bolt (a high level Glacial Spike gives longer duration of being completely frozen and is much appreciated by melee party members.)

    So I prefer the following- for an FO sorc, max FO and CM and don't put anything into Ice Bolt except the 1 as a prereq, but for Blizzard, get CM to the point where it is level 17 after skills and invest in Glacial Spike and possibly the other synergies, depending upon whether or not you are going single-tree or dual-tree.
  17. eggo

    eggo IncGamers Member

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    Wow why couldn't you say this sooner lol? I already maxed icebolts..LOL. Not going to remake, again..already lvl 69, actually maybe, since I didn't include any into energy shield whatsoever..so thankyou for enlightening me!
  18. Immortality

    Immortality Banned

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    Lol... I thought you were a seasoned vet... but I guess you proved me otherwise.

    All you have to do is Max out icebolt in your first 20-22 levels, and use the rest of the levels before for req for icebolt. Then max out FO, then go for CM.

    Use the skill points you gain from quests for reqs for TS and/or ES
  19. Dacar92

    Dacar92 Community, Amazon, DH Moderator; Clan Officer West

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    Added to the Build Guide and Useful Info sticky and unstuck.
  20. -Tempus-

    -Tempus- IncGamers Member

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    i have an old post someplace where i was testing different levs of orb/icebolt/mastery vs one of my other chars with different item setups in hell games. this was done when 1.10 came out and should still be here someplace. if its not i may still have the numbers to repost it.

    some of the different setups were
    28 orb/mastery max icebolt
    28 orb, 9 mastery max icebolt
    28 orb/mastery 1 icebot

    vs
    naked barb with 1 point NR so his resistance in hell was very bad
    barb with 75% to cold in hell
    barb with 90% to cold in hell
    pal with a total of 400% to 450% resist to cold in hell (with 75% or 92% max)

    the first 2 barbs could die in 1-2 hits (close to 3k life) but the paladin would only lose a few hp from each attack.

    the thing is to get the most out of orb you need tomax all 3 and use a lot of +skill items but you could kill faster if you just use a high lev static field for the range to take the monsters down to low life then use a 2nd attack skill thats not as strong to finsh them off. that works best if you want to make a 2 or 3 tree build. high lev SF with 105%fcr is still a ton of fun :thumbsup:

    -Tempus-

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