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Blade Fury Analysis

Discussion in 'Assassin' started by Ceramic Weasel, Jul 13, 2009. | Replies: 291 | Views: 92641

  1. Ceramic Weasel

    Ceramic Weasel IncGamers Member

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    Blade Fury Analysis

    Blade Fury Analysis

    Everything you thought you knew about Blade Fury put to the test, with surprising results


    Introduction

    I've been playing Assassins in one form or another for many years, but hadn't paid much attention to the Blade Fury skill until just a few months ago. I was intrigued by the idea of a Furysin. It looked like fun and Blade Fury was said to be a 1pt-wonder skill, making any Fury build highly customizable. I spent several weeks testing equipment combinations, but its performance always left me disappointed. Then, about two weeks after I had given up on the idea, an update to the Arreat Summit on June 15, 2009 included this surprising addition to the skill description:
    I almost fell off my chair. This is huge! Do people know about this? It flew in the face of everything I thought I knew about this skill. Nearly all the guides I had read with any mention of Blade Fury had all said the same thing: that this was a 1pt-wonder; additional points in this skill are wasted. But if the above statement is correct, a 20pt investment in Blade Fury could potentially yield THOUSANDS of damage! I immediately dug up my data sheets and started repeating all my tests, this time making no assumptions about what Blade Fury was and wasn't supposed to do. The following is a description of my findings, and the conclusions made therein.

    Note: This is not a Furysin guide. This is an analysis of the Blade Fury skill for the purposes of maximizing its damage. The only skills and equipment included are those that affect Blade Fury. I will leave issues of builds and strategies open to discussion.


    Abbreviation Key
    %ed - % Enhanced Damage
    AR - Attack Rating
    Avg - Average
    BF - Blade Fury
    ctc - chance to cast
    CB - Crushing Blow
    CM - Claw Mastery
    CoS - Cloak of Shadows
    CS - Critical Strike
    Dex - Dexterity
    Dmg - Damage
    DS - Deadly Strike
    ITD - Ignore Target Defense
    LCS - Lying Character Screen
    Lvl - Level
    Mods - Modifiers
    PvP - Player vs Player
    PvM - Player vs Monster
    Str - Strength


    Assassin builds that use Blade Fury

    Furysin Guide by Ritslev
    The Ninja by Frogboybri
    The Warrior-Monk (Uber-Trist) by JanusJones



    Section A - Skills

    Blade Fury

    Okay, lets cut right to the chase. The damage from BF isn't very impressive. Or at least, it doesn't appear to be. When you watch the LCS as you place points into BF, your listed damage will only go up by tiny increments. This is because the LCS calculates BF damage with the following formula:

    Damage = ((Weapon_Damage + Offweapon_Damage) * (1 + StatsBonus + (+x% Enhanced_Damage) / 100) + Elemental_Damage) * 0.75 + BF_Damage

    For those unfamiliar with Diablo 2 damage equations, this means that your normal weapon damage is calculated, modified by items and skills, elemental damage (including magic and poison) is added, the whole thing is hit with a big 3/4 nerf, and then the damage from BF is included, unmodified, at the end.

    However, if the recent update to the Arreat Summit is accurate, the real damage formula should look more like this:

    Damage = ((Weapon_Damage + Offweapon_Damage) * (1 + StatsBonus + (+x% Enhanced_Damage) / 100) + Elemental_Damage) * 0.75 + BF_Damage * (1 + StatsBonus + (+x% Enhanced_Damage) / 100)

    This means that the damage granted by BF would get modified by your Str and/or Dex, as well as all off-weapon sources of enhanced damage. These include skills like CM and auras, as well as items such as Fortitude and Phoenix. This can add up very quickly, but before I did anything else I first had to test the damage equation.

    Note on testing: All tests presented in this report were conducted in single player, normal difficulty, on my home network. A character editor was used to create whatever equipment I required and to occasionally reset skill levels. Unless noted otherwise, the test character in all cases was a lvl 90 Assassin with 140 Str and 105 Dex.

    Custom rings were used to boost her AR over 70,000, and a small charm with 100% ctc lvl 5 life tap on striking alerted me when a miss occurred. Shuriken were thrown in sets of 2 or more and the average damage of each strike was calculated based on the damage dealt by the entire set.

    The target was a lvl 90 Barbarian with no equipment and no skill points allocated. He had exactly 10,000 life and 0% resistances.



    For the following tests, I equipped a Fortitude armor and a Last Wish Berserker Axe with maximum (+390%) damage. To ensure accurate results, the ctc effects and CB were removed from the Last Wish. No Venom was used.
    Code:
    [B]Level 1 BF[/B]
    Listed Damage: 656-1935 (1296 Avg) (216 PvP)
    Expected Damage: 707-1999 (1353 Avg) ([B]226[/B] Pvp)
    
    Average damage over 150 hits: [B]225[/B]
    
    [B]Level 20 BF[/B]
    Listed Damage: 749-2028 (1389 Avg) (232 PvP)
    Expected Damage: 1396-2687 (2042 Avg) ([B]340[/B] PvP)
    
    Average damage over 200 hits: [B]348[/B]
    Wow, that's pretty clear. Damage from BF is modified by stats, skills and off-weapon %ed at the very least. So what does this mean for our potential damage return?

    Take an example Assassin with 150 Str, 100 Dex, maxed CM and the following setup:

    Weapon: random claw
    Armor: Fortitude
    Shield: Phoenix
    Other: +skill items granting a total of +15 CM and +15 BF
    Mercenary: Act 2 Might (lvl 87) with 'Pride' polearm, Andariel's Visage and Chains of Honor

    Note: While the above setup is entirely possible, it's not very practical for reasons discussed later. It is provided here for demonstration purposes only.

    The Blade Fury modifiers will then be as follows:

    Stats Bonus = 1.87
    Lvl 35 Claw Mastery = +171%
    Lvl 22 Might (Merc) = +250%
    Lvl 20 Concentration = +345%
    Fortitude armor = +300%
    Phoenix shield = +400%

    The difference between 1pt and 20pts in BF, with +15 to the skill, is 152 damage. So now we calculate:

    152 * (1+1.87 + (171+250+345+300+400) / 100) ~= 2664

    So, by investing 19 additional points into BF, we gain an additional 2,664 damage! Even the godliest Grief-wielding Smiters can't gain that much damage return by maxing Smite, so it seems absurd that a Furysin wouldn't max BF.


    Claw Mastery

    I knew from my previous testing that Critical Strike from CM applies to BF while wielding a claw. Its kind of hard to miss when you spend hours throwing several thousand shuriken at a defenseless Barbarian. From this observation I had assumed that all of CM's attributes apply to BF, but in the back of my mind I knew I needed to test it. I was determined not to make any more assumptions.

    For this test I removed the Fortitude and traded the Last Wish for a claw. CM was boosted to lvl 40 and its affect on each side of the proposed equation was tested separately by using different damage claws and different lvls of BF.
    Code:
    [B]Level 40 CM[/B] (+191%ed)
    
    [I]First, the claw side of the equation...[/I]
    
    [B]Level 1 BF[/B]
    Magic Suwayyah (234-312 Dmg)
    Expected BF Damage (factoring CS): 1069-1421 (1245 Avg) ([B]208[/B] PvP)
    
    Average damage over 150 hits: [B]215[/B]
    
    
    [I]...then the BF side of the equation[/I]
    
    [B]Level 20 BF[/B]
    Plain Claws (8-15 Dmg)
    Expected BF Damage (factoring CS): 623-666 (645 Avg) ([B]108[/B] PvP)
    
    Average damage over 150 hits: [B]108[/B]
    Okay, that all checks out. My current damage equation still holds.

    Now for the AR component. For this test I increased my target's defense to 2000, significantly decreased my Furysin's AR and compared the hit rate of a basic claw against that of a hatchet. The AR's listed below are those given by the LCS with normal attack selected.
    Code:
    [B]Level 30 CM[/B] (+320%AR)
    
    Claw AR: 14,721
    Number of hits over 200 shots: 137 ([B]68.5%[/B])
    
    Hatchet AR: 3,505
    Number of hits over 200 shots: 126 ([B]63%[/B])
    Hmm, that doesn't look very convincing. The claw hit more frequently, but not as much as I would expect with over 14k AR. I couldn't draw any conclusions from that, so I decided to boost CM to lvl 50 to see what happens.
    Code:
    [B]Level 50 CM[/B] (+520%AR)
    
    Claw AR: 21,731
    Number of hits over 100 shots: [B]60[/B]
    
    Hatchet AR: 3,505
    Number of hits over 100 shots: [B]61[/B]
    What the hell? Even with a boost of 7k AR, my hit rate with the claw somehow managed to decrease. That clinches it; the AR component of CM does not apply to Blade Fury while wielding a claw.


    Venom

    With two skills tested and already two unexpected results, I wasn't about to leave this stone unturned. Venom is supposed to be reduced by the 3/4 penalty along with all other elemental damage. In short, it is.

    Testing it was tricky, since it's duration is 10 frames (0.4 seconds) and BF hits at a rate of 6 frames, so I had to calculate how much damage the first blade would do before the second hits and reapplies the poison. But because the damage is so regular, the results varied by only 0.8 from the expected damage. I won't bother listing the results in detail, since they're incredibly boring.

    Blade Fury counts as a ranged attack, so the bonus from Poison Mastery (Trang-Oul's Claws) is only applied once. Generally speaking, Venom is a weak investment for a Furysin. On successive hits, only 6 frames of poison out of 10 will be applied, and this is then further reduced by the 3/4 penalty such that Venom will typically deal only 45% of it's listed damage (even less for 2H weapons, discussed later).

    I also tested elemental and magic damage from other sources (weapon, charms, equipment, etc) and found the same 3/4 penalty applies to these as well. That then brings us to the next section of this report...



    Section B - Equipment

    Before I start destroying everyone's long-held beliefs about what makes the best Furysin equipment, I'm going to take a moment to review some of the equipment mods that do, and do not, work with Blade Fury. Most of this information can be obtained from Ritslev's guide mentioned above, but I will list it again here for completeness sake.

    What works
    • Physical/Weapon Damage (3/4 or 3/8)
    • Elemental Damage (3/4 or 3/8)
    • Deadly Strike
    • Crushing Blow
    • Open Wounds
    • Knockback
    • Prevent Monster Heal
    • Ignore Target Defense
    • Life and Mana Leech
    • Chance to cast on Striking
    • Hit Freezes Target
    • Hit Blinds Target
    • Hit Slows Target
    • Hit Causes Monster to Flee
    What doesn't work
    • Faster Cast Rate
    • Increased Attack Speed
    • Chance to cast on Attacking
    • Pierce Target
    Most of these are fairly obvious to BF veterans, so I wasn't going to bother testing all of them. However, some of these are highly relevant to damage output, and I felt that they deserved proper testing to remove any ambiguity surrounding them.


    The 3/8 Penalty

    When wielding 2-Handed weapons, the BF 3/4 penalty increases to 3/8. This is widely known and has been confirmed throughout my testing many times over. What isn't widely known, however, is that the LCS will continue to display damage as though the penalty were 3/4. Do not trust your character screen! 2H weapons are almost always a bad idea for Furysins, since the 3/8 penalty not only applies to your physical weapon damage, but extends to magic and elemental damage too.

    To confirm this I compared a Colossus Blade to a Mythical Sword, each with +200%ed and +200 Cold/Fire/Magic. My Assassin had 190 Str and 140 Dex, lvl 1 BF and no other equipment.
    Code:
    [B]Colossus Blade[/B] (2H)
    Listed damage with normal attack: 1104-1600
    Listed damage with Blade Fury: 836-1210 (1023 Avg) (171 PvP)
    Expected damage with BF (3/8): 437-629 (533 Avg) ([B]89[/B] PvP)
    
    Average damage over 100 hits: [B]92[/B]
    [I]If the elemental component was only suffering a 3/4 penalty, we'd expect to see
    126 average PvP damage.[/I]
    
    
    [B]Mythical Sword[/B] (1H)
    Listed damage with normal attack: 948-1035
    Listed damage with Blade Fury: 719-786
    Expected damage with BF (3/4): 734-805 (770 Avg) ([B]128[/B] PvP)
    
    Average damage over 100 hits: [B]131[/B]
    If that wasn't bad enough, the 3/8 penalty from 2H weapons also extends to Venom. The following test was done with a normal 2H sword, lvl 1 BF, lvl 50 Venom and 140 Str. Blades were thrown in sets of 2, allowing the second to deliver the full dose of poison before the next set was fired.
    Code:
    [B]Level 50 Venom[/B] with 2H sword
    Average Venom damage per frame: 143.5 (23.9 PvP)
    
    1st Blade (6 frames): 7.3 + 23.9 * 6 * 0.375 = 61
    2nd Blade (10 frames): 7.3 + 23.9 * 10 * 0.375 = 97
    
    Expected average damage: (61 + 97)/2 = [B]79[/B]
    Observed average damage over 100 hits: [B]75[/B]
    
    In other words, don't use 2H weapons.


    Deadly Strike

    There's no question that DS works, but I wasn't sure if it worked on the extra damage granted by Blade Fury as well. I'm nothing if not thorough, so yet again I ran some tests. I used a phase blade with +500%ed and 100% DS, lvl 20 BF and put on a Fortitude to boost the BF component slightly higher than the weapon component. If the DS was only applying to the weapon component, the result should be significantly less than my expected damage.
    Code:
    Listed damage with normal attack: 1004-1134
    Expected damage with BF (factoring DS): 2596-2813 (2705 Avg) ([B]451[/B] PvP)
    
    Average damage over 100 hits: [B]460[/B]
    Awesome. The amazing damage potential of BF just got even better.


    Crushing Blow

    This stuff is great for PvM, as everyone knows, but when you read the description on the Arreat Summit it says that the damage from CB is halved for "missile weapons". What does this mean for BF when you're wielding a melee weapon and throwing shuriken?

    To test this I created a shortbow and club, both with 100% CB, then wailed on my target with normal attack to get a damage benchmark for each. I then repeated the test using lvl 1 BF with both weapons. Alas, no matter what weapon you're wielding, BF always counts as a "missile weapon" for calculating CB damage.


    Dual-wielding Claws


    Weapons

    After all that testing and exposition, you're probably anxious to see some actual weapon comparisons. Many people on these forums have their favourite BF weapons, such as Stormlash, Fleshripper or Last Wish. I tested all of these and lots more, and will post the results of the highest performing weapons, along with others that people may be interested in seeing.

    Perform your own equipment comparisons using my Blade Fury Damage Calculator

    For these tests my Assassin had lvl 30 CM and lvl 30 BF, was wearing Fortitude, Gore Riders and a Guillaume's helm socketed with a 40%ed jewel. Her Str and Dex altered slightly depending on the weapon used, but in most cases remained at 155 and 105 respectively. This setup provided her with the following, off-weapon damage modifiers:
    • 340% Enhanced Damage
    • 50% Crushing Blow
    • 30% Deadly Strike
    • 10% Open Wounds
    • +151% Enhanced Damage with claws
    • 22% Critical Strike with claws
    • 181-183 Blade Fury base damage
    All variable effects on the weapons (specifically damage) were set at maximum, and in the case of runewords a further +15%ed was added for the superior base weapon. To give the non-runewords a fighting chance, they were all socketed with "Lo" runes, granting 20% DS.
    Code:
    The damages listed are the average over 100 hits in PvP
    
    [B]Weapon                     Grade             Damage     Str/Dex[/B]
    ----------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Godly Rare Claw ([URL="http://i218.photobucket.com/albums/cc178/azmarath/Diablo/ShadRaz.jpg"]pic[/URL])      Ethereal          1226       155/105
    Death Ettin Axe            Ethereal          1137       155/105
    Lacerator (after Amp)      Ethereal          1137       155/115 (req)
    Last Wish Berserker Axe    Ethereal          1132       155/105
    Choas Suwayyah             Ethereal          1115       165/105 (weapon)
    Stonecrusher               Ethereal          1089       185/105 (weapon/req)
    Fury Suwayyah              Ethereal          1088       155/105
    Beast Ettin Axe            Ethereal          1050       195/105 (weapon)
    Fleshripper                Ethereal          1019       155/105
    
    Bartuc's Cut-Throat        Ethereal, Upped   981        175/125 (weapon)
    Last Wish Berserker Axe    Normal            954        155/105
    Stormlash                  Ethereal          950        155/105
    Choas Suwayyah             Normal            918        165/105 (weapon)
    Shadowkiller               Ethereal          898        155/105
    Famine Ettin Axe*          Ethereal          848        165/105 (weapon)
    BOTD Berserker Axe         Ethereal          810        185/135 (weapon)
    Schaefer's Hammer          Normal (must be)  765        190/105 (req)
    Faith Colossus Crossbow    Normal (must be)  760        165/105 (req)
    Azurewrath                 Normal (must be)  719        165/150 (weapon/req)
    Crescent Moon Ettin Axe    Ethereal          712        155/105
    Lacerator (before Amp)     Ethereal          644        155/115 (req)
    Grief Ettin Axe            Ethereal          557        155/105
    
    *Famine can be made in a Legendary Mallet for extra damage, but I chose not to 
    because of the Str requirements.
    Last Wish: It's worth noting that the first time I conducted weapon tests with lvl 1 BF, Last Wish ranked somewhere below Fury Suwayyah. Thus, a lot of this damage can be contributed to a high lvl BF combined with the lvl 17 Might aura.

    Stormlash: I'm sure people are going to reply with various comments about static, CB, greatest PvM weapon ever, etc. Personally I think it's a fantastic weapon... for kickers. It works well in melee because everything swarms you and gets torn up by the static field. But with BF and CoS I'm always firing from a distance, usually using knockback, and lvl 10 static just doesn't have the range to be effective in that situation. For a pure Furysin I would say it's okay, but not great.

    Faith: Yeah. Remember what I said about 2H weapons? Well, it goes double for bows since they can't be ethereal.

    Famine: What Famine lacks in damage, it makes up in versatility. Nothing will be immune to you, and with an Infinity on your merc, all that elemental damage can become quite respectable. How much it does will vary from creature to creature, depending on their resistances, but even with Conviction it'll never reach the raw power of some of the higher physical damage options.

    Grief: Woah, what happened here? The Warrior-Monk guide lists this as one of the best weapons for BF, and looking at the mods I can see how someone might easily think that. But clearly it was never actually tested. I figured that the +X damage mod was not being multiplied properly, so naturally I decided to test it.

    For the following test my Assassin had 140 Str, 140 Dex, lvl 1 BF and was wearing Fortitude armor. The base weapon for each test was a phase blade with +200%ed and varying amounts of +X or +X-Y damage.
    Code:
    Phase Blade (+200%ed)      Avg Dmg (60 hits)
    --------------------------------------------
    +60-120 damage              136
    +90 damage                   77
    +490 damage                  76
    +Nothing                     78
    Well that explains it. +X damage doesn't work with BF at all.

    So what would be my weapon of choice? At this stage, I'd have to say Fury Suwayyah.

    ... huh?

    Allow me to explain. Last Wish is only effective because of its Might aura, but we can get a higher Might aura from a mercenary. Also, the ctc Life Tap is quite annoying if you rely on CoS at all. Death and Chaos are both great, but they lack ITD which is a real pain. You could get a Blessed Aim merc, and equip him with a Pride, but you'll need some +AR items to make it work. You can equip your merc with an Infinity (I highly recommend this for bosses and champs anyway) and exploit the hell out of that -83% defense, but Conviction's radius isn't enough to cover the whole screen, so you're limited to attacking whatever group of monsters your merc decides to attack.

    With Fury I'm not relying on my mercenary all the time (ITD), I don't have to worry about getting a crappy damage roll since Fury's %ed is fixed, and I can make it in a claw with a +3 Blade Fury staffmod. It's also a very appropriately named runeword.


    Shield

    The obvious choice here seems like Phoenix. That +400%ed working on both your weapon and BF damage makes each hit really hurt, but as JanusJones points out in his Warrior-Monk guide, the ctc Firestorm constantly interrupts your stream of shurikens. BF has a rather long windup, and when you're being interrupted every 2-3 hits by a 15 frame casting delay, I had to wonder what the overall affect is on damage over time. So I compared it to some other popular damage dealing shields.

    For these tests I opened up my system clock and positioned my Diablo 2 window so that I could watch the seconds ticking by. I used the same setup as with the weapon tests, except I took off the Gore Riders and Guillaume's helm, and boosted my target's life to 20,000. Then I timed (roughly) how long it took to kill my target from the moment I held down the mouse button. The weapon used was an ethereal Fury Suwayyah.
    Code:
    Shield                     Average time (out of 3)
    --------------------------------------------------
    3x 40%ed jewels            7.33 seconds
    Dream                      8.67 seconds
    Tiamat's + 40%ed jewel     8.67 seconds
    Phoenix (+400%ed)          10.67 seconds
    To be fair, depending on the distance between you and your target, you should get several shuriken in the air before the first one strikes, and with the right equipment you're likely to kill most PvM targets in 2-3 hits anyway. So, the ctc interruptions from Phoenix may not slow you down as much as the above figures suggest. More field testing is required.

    What about Voice of Reason?

    Builds based around ctc effects seem to be popular these days, and although Rift's ctc Orb won't work with BF, Voice of Reason's ctc will. I have tried it in PvM and found it to be moderately effective, but my personal opinion is that ctc items which trigger a casting delay are counter-productive for Furysins. I'm sure it's playable with the right equipment, and probably lots of fun, but I'll leave it to others to conduct further research in this area.


    Conclusions

    I said at the beginning this wasn't a Furysin guide and I'm sticking to that. I don't feel qualified recommending specific equipment options, since I'm still trying them out myself. Damage wise, I tend to look for DS and off-weapon Enhanced Damage before CB, and I consider ITD and Knockback to be high priorities also.

    For a final demonstration of a Furysin's true damage potential with a more practical setup, consider the following:

    Strength: 160
    Dexterity: 90
    Armor: Fortitude
    Weapon: Ethereal 'Fury' Suwayyah (+3 BF staffmod)
    Shield: Monarch socketed with 4x 40%ed jewels
    Helm: Guillaume's socketed with 1x 40%ed jewel
    Boots: Gore Riders
    Gloves: Laying of Hands
    Amulet: Highlord's Wrath
    Rings: Bul-Kathos x2
    Belt: Arachnid's Mesh
    Inventory: Torch, Anni, 9x Trap GCs
    Switch: CTA / Spirit
    Mercenary: Act 2 Might (lvl 87) with 'Infinity' polearm, Andariel's Visage and Chains of Honor

    With Battle Orders and CTA prebuffing, this grants +9 CM, +21 BF and +12 Venom

    Stats Bonus = 1.87
    Weapon Dmg = 219.5 avg
    Lvl 41 Blade Fury = 270 avg
    Lvl 13 Venom = 275 avg (or 165 on successive hits)
    Lvl 29 Claw Mastery = +147%
    Lvl 22 Might (Merc) = +250%
    Off-weapon item %ed = +500%
    Chance of double damage = 22+(1-22/100)*(33+32+15+15) = 96%

    Weapon Half = (219.5 * (1 + 1.87 + (147+250+500) / 100) * 1.96 + 165) * 0.75 ~= 3,944
    Blade Fury Half = 270 * (1 + 1.87 + (147+250+500) / 100) * 1.96 ~= 6,266

    Average Damage per shuriken = 10,210
    vs. Demons = 13,191


    Not enough? You're right, what was I thinking? Okay, how about this...

    Strength: 160
    Dexterity: 55
    Armor: Fortitude
    Weapon: Ethereal perfect 'Death' Ettin Axe
    Shield: Monarch socketed with 4x 40%ed jewels
    Helm: Guillaume's socketed with 1x 40%ed jewel
    Boots: Hsarus' Iron Heel
    Gloves: Laying of Hands
    Amulet: Highlord's Wrath
    Rings: Bul-Kathos / Ravenfrost
    Belt: Hsarus' Iron Stay
    Inventory: Torch, Anni, 9x Trap GCs
    Switch: CTA / Spirit
    Mercenary: Act 2 Blessed Aim (lvl 87) with 'Pride' polearm, Andariel's Visage and Chains of Honor

    With Battle Orders and CTA prebuffing, this grants +16 BF and +10 Venom
    With no ITD she's completely dependent on the Merc, but add some +AR small charms and you should get around 7-8k AR with Blessed Aim

    Stats Bonus = 1.6
    Weapon Dmg = 370 avg
    Lvl 36 Blade Fury = 230 avg
    Lvl 30 Venom = 735 avg (or 441 on successive hits)
    Lvl 20 Concentration (Merc) = +345%
    Off-weapon item %ed = +500%
    Chance of double damage = 45+32+15 = 92%

    Weapon Half = (370 * (1 + 1.6 + (345+500) / 100) * 1.92 + 441) * 0.75 ~= 6,218
    Blade Fury Half = 230 * (1 + 1.6 + (345+500) / 100) * 1.92 ~= 4,880

    Average Damage per shuriken = 11,098
    vs. Demons = 14,508

    Now, that's an impressive Blade Fury. :thumbup:


    ** Many thanks to everyone who has posted their questions, comments and experiences in this thread! **



    Last edited: Jul 20, 2011
  2. Reelix

    Reelix IncGamers Member

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    Re: Blade Fury Analysis

    Holy o_O

    Add an extra 100 or so for an off-hand Lvl 21 enchant ;)

    Thanks for the excellent Blade-Fury Review - This has provided me with a vast amount of knowledge previously unknown, and a highly interesting read!

    - Edit -

    Would you mind uploading the saved game of that 10ker so I can try it out myself? :)

    - Edit 2 -

    Some people say getting the torch on a Furysin is inadvisable since it interrupts the attacks - Your opinion?

    - Edit 3 -

    Weapon: Ethereal Fury Suwayyah (+3 BF staffmod)

    Is it not possible to get +3BF Ethereal Socketed (To create a runeword with) ?


    Last edited: Jul 13, 2009
  3. maxicek

    maxicek IncGamers Member

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    Re: Blade Fury Analysis

    :shocked:

    Great work, some very interesting and surprising results. Shame the AR from Claw Mastery doesn't work.

    Can you do the same for Blade Sentinel and Blade Shield now :badteeth:

    Two problems:
    - I now have another uber rare claw to find - Ethereal, Fool's, Cruel, Witch-hunters, +3BF....
    - I have yet another Assassin to build. I though I had ticked the Furysin box.
  4. Master Zap

    Master Zap IncGamers Member

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    Re: Blade Fury Analysis

    Excellent reference tool for all things bfury.

    Bfury has always been one of my favorite sin skills. I've always thought of it as a 1 pointer which has served me fine, but after looking at the numbers Ive second thoughts on this.

    On HCL this season I rolled this
    http://i167.photobucket.com/albums/u131/Master_Zappy/Screenshot360.jpg

    I found this to be the most dominating bfury wep Ive ever tried, and Ive tried them all.
    I think the lcs said something about 5-6K fury which is ridiculous. Paired with a conviction might merc+tiamats and this girl could bfury all targets without worrying about immunes.

    *votes this thread stickied in the sin "guide" page for reference*
  5. DH Amazon

    DH Amazon IncGamers Member

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    Re: Blade Fury Analysis

    I started my Fury after reading your nice guide. She is lvl27 now with lvl11 fury. That damage boost from fury helps a lot while leveling. Just bare minimum tweaking items are enough.
    Might be good starting char after reset, as that damage boost from fury is enough for norm/nmare. No hurry to find decent weapon, Strength (amn,tir) claw should be enough for nmare.

    But even after reading that warning, I plan to use Infy as main weapon and Rogue merc with Wrath-bow to trigger Decrepify/Life tap for me.
    (IM is main reason to hold infy)
    But surely need to test with one-hander when good eth weapon drops.



  6. Ceramic Weasel

    Ceramic Weasel IncGamers Member

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    Re: Blade Fury Analysis

    Actually, that number doesn't even include Venom, and I'd probably use Demon Limb if I was going to enchant. If I prebuffed maxed Venom from the CTA switch I'd get lvl 31 (770 avg, or 77 per frame), so...

    Venom = 77 * 6 * 0.75 ~= 346
    Enchant = 107 * 0.75 ~= 80

    For 10,711 per shuriken.

    1. Will do this later. It's just a demo, though, and she has a few issues with Phys immunes.

    2. Torch has no casting delay because it uses Diablo's Firestorm ability, not the Druids.

    3. I was actually talking about the 'Fury' runeword (Jah+Gul+Eth) made in an ethereal Suwayyah with +3 BF.

    Yeah, I was really disappointed about the AR too. As for Blade Sentinel, that's my next project, as soon as I get a few days with nothing else to do. :)

    I did think of testing one of these, but I forgot. I'm not sure I'd want it without 2 sockets, though, for Jah + Lo. I'll run the numbers on this tomorrow.

    That's why I included Famine in my results, it just looks so perfect. But even under the influence of Conviction, Fury Suwayyah manages to outdamage it with all that DS acting on both weapon and BF damage. Still, a very respectable BF weapon when used with an Infinity merc.

    Just so long as you know your character screen is lying about your damage. I can run the numbers on this tomorrow if you like. You're really going to miss that Might aura though, it adds a stack of damage.

    Thanks for all the comments guys.



    Last edited: Jul 13, 2009
  7. YogiRat

    YogiRat IncGamers Member

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    Re: Blade Fury Analysis

    Great work Weasel! I think this should be stickied also, but could you run one more weapon test for me? Just to put my mind at ease?

    The static works (10+yard radius), but it's nothing to write home to mom about in Hell.
    Both VoR and the Stormlash have a 10% CTC on striking. Impressive, but they don't compare against the 33% CTC Amp damage the Lacerators have. Yes, the CTC flee does disrupt things against normal monsters, but it doesn't against bosses. This is a huge plus. :) Please do this test, you are set up for it. I don't want to be a lonely voice in the woods.

    She won't with Lacerators, LI, PI, what ever, this weapon gets the job done.
    There is more to this game than just physical damage. The Tucks that I pre-buff with show more damage on the LCS than those axes. ;)





    sorry Sara, it's true. :(
  8. renegademaster

    renegademaster IncGamers Member

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    Re: Blade Fury Analysis

    Hi there fascinating write-up!

    Another thing i was wondering about Poison Damage, with melee attacks any % bonus to poison damage is applied twice, is it only applied once for BF as its ranged?

    Am testing a Voice of Reason BF sin now, the damage is not ground breaking, but it changes the way you play, making you more sneaky!
  9. BlastDuke

    BlastDuke IncGamers Member

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    Re: Blade Fury Analysis

    Awesome work, Ceramic Weasel! :thumbup:

    Following your numbers and making a quick "damage output with my equipment" Excel sheet one question remains for me:
    The calculation says:
    Weapon Half = 219.5 * (1 + 1.87 + (143+300+500) / 100) * 1.96 * 0.75 ~= 3,969

    Can anyone describe how you exactly calculate the 219.5 value? The Suwayyah has 45.5 avg base damage, what makes this to become 219.5?
    Thanks
  10. bcoe

    bcoe IncGamers Member

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    Re: Blade Fury Analysis

    Great write-up, very interesting. One other weapon to consider: I always considered Schaefer's Hammer tailor made for a BF-sin, with the +max damage, CtC static field, and the big AR bonus. Maybe not quite a Death ettin, but pretty darn good...
  11. Damric

    Damric IncGamers Member

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    Re: Blade Fury Analysis

    You didn't test my favorite kick/fury weapon, Azurewraith!!!
  12. Ceramic Weasel

    Ceramic Weasel IncGamers Member

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    Re: Blade Fury Analysis

    Thanks everyone for the suggestions. I just love it when people give me more work to do. :p

    Updates:
    - Rare claw test results
    - Lacerator test results (with and without Amp Damage)
    - Azurewrath test results

    In reference to the rare claw; it seems ITD can spawn on rare claws with the "Piercing" suffix. So if you can find an ethereal War Fist with Cruel, Fool's, Witch-Hunter's, Piercing and Bear mods, like this, that would be pretty cool.


    To address some of the other stuff...

    ----------
    Level 10 Static Field is 9.3 yards. You can get an idea of the radius in the screenshots here and here. I personally don't think it's enough for a ranged character, but that's just me.

    ----------
    Poison Mastery (or +% psn skill dmg) does not apply twice on BF. See below for test results:
    Code:
    [B]Lvl 50 Venom[/B] with Trang's glove (1435 * 1.25 = 1794)
    Average Venom damage per frame: 179.4 (29.9 PvP)
    
    1st Blade (6 frames): 3.9 + 29.9 * 6 * 0.75 = 138
    2nd Blade (10 frames): 3.9 + 29.9 * 10 * 0.75 = 228
    
    Expected average damage: (138 + 228)/2 = 183
    Observed average damage over 30 hits: 181
    ----------
    This number is for an ethereal "Fury" Suwayyah (Jah+Gul+Eth). With 224%ed the damage on the weapon is 187-252.

    ----------
    DH Amazon: In regards to your plan to hold the Infinity and ditch the Might merc, here are some numbers that may change your mind. Assuming you hit level 30 BF, have min Str/Dex to use an ethereal Cryptic Axe Infinity, and are wearing the following

    Weapon: Ethereal Cryptic Axe Infinity (320%ed)
    Armor: Fortitude
    Helm: Guillaume's socketed with 1x 40%ed jewel
    Boots: Gore Riders
    Amulet: Highlord's Wrath

    Weapon Half = 575 * (1 + 1.55 + (300+40) / 100) * 1.62 * 0.375 ~= 2,078
    Blade Fury Half = 182 * (1 + 1.55 + (300+40) / 100) * 1.62 ~= 1,754

    Average Damage per shuriken = 3,832

    Of course, that doesn't factor in the CB or 50% bonus from Decrepify, but still, if you put the Infinity on a Might merc, boost CM to lvl 30, and use the following

    Weapon: plain white Suwayyah
    Shield: Tiamat's socketed with 1x 40%ed jewel
    Armor: Fortitude
    Helm: Guillaume's socketed with 1x 40%ed jewel
    Boots: Gore Riders
    Amulet: Highlord's Wrath

    Edit: Forgot CS! -- 22+(1-22/100)*(32+15+15) = 70% double damage

    Weapon Half = ((45.5 * (1 + 1.87 + (151+300+300+40+40) / 100) * 1.7) + 165.5) * 0.75 ~= 773
    Blade Fury Half = 182 * (1 + 1.87 + (151+300+300+40+40) / 100) * 1.7 ~= 3,459

    Average Damage per shuriken = 4,231

    That's the power of ed% on BF. Even a non-magic, non-eth Suwayyah outdamages you. If you're not going to boost BF with %ed items and skills, there's no point maxing it at all.

    ----------
    The character file and Conviction tests will have to wait till tomorrow, because it's really late.



  13. crawlingdeadman

    crawlingdeadman IncGamers Site Pal

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    Re: Blade Fury Analysis

    outstanding work :thumbup:
  14. Damric

    Damric IncGamers Member

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    Re: Blade Fury Analysis

    Have you ever tried to use blade fury in pvp against someone with chilling armor? It's pretty funny, but exactly how does that work?

    Also check this out. I found this jewel this season. Too bad I gave this shield away to Skyjuice. It was sick on my talon/fury. I was wondering how a perfect jewel of same type would compare against that 4x40ed shield.
  15. onderduiker

    onderduiker IncGamers Member

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    Re: Blade Fury Analysis

    Ceramic Weasel, what follows may lighten your workload, although hopefully you'll still test to confirm it in case somebody made a mistake:

    • Claw Mastery's +% to Attack Rating (the passive_mastery_melee_th stat) doesn't apply to Blade Fury, but +% AR from other sources does: TitanSeal reported this in the Amazon Basin's Assassin Room in July 2008, and subsequent tests confirmed that CM's +% AR did apply to Blade Sentinel and Shield.

    • CM's Critical Strike, CS or Deadly Strike apply to both the weapon and skill damage of all three Blade skills.

    • Weapon damage penalties apply to physical, magic, fire, lightning, cold and poison weapon damage, and cold (but not poison) length for all three Blade skills.

    • Weapon damage penalties don't apply to the skill damage of Blade Sentinel and Fury, but Blade Shield's 1/4 penalty is applied to its skill damage: however, the further 1/2 weapon damage penalty when equipping two-handed weapons only applies to Blade Sentinel and Fury, not Blade Shield.

    • Off-weapon +% Enhanced Damage applies to the skill damage of Blade Sentinel and Fury, but not that of Blade Shield: +% ED from attributes (Strength and Dexterity) is only applied to skill damage when a weapon is equipped.

    • +% to Poison Skill Damage is applied to Venom when cast just as +% to Fire Skill Damage is applied to Enchant, but +% to Skill Damage isn't then applied to any elemental and poison weapon damage applied by Blade Sentinel and Fury: however, it is applied to any elemental and poison weapon damage applied by Blade Shield.

    • A Grief 'EthTirLoMalRal' Phase Blade's Damage +340-400 isn't applied by Blade Sentinel or Fury, but it is applied by Blade Shield.
    All of that is based on tests of actual damage, not damage displayed by the character screen.
  16. Reelix

    Reelix IncGamers Member

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    Re: Blade Fury Analysis

    Does %damage apply, or have I just wasted 12 skill points :|

    (Woot! Hit lvl 50 HC Furysin last night!!!)


  17. renegademaster

    renegademaster IncGamers Member

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    Re: Blade Fury Analysis


    yes can we get a schaefers hammer test result!!


  18. Ceramic Weasel

    Ceramic Weasel IncGamers Member

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    Re: Blade Fury Analysis

    Update:
    - Schaefer's Hammer test results
    - Tested Azurewrath again
    - Comment on Famine

    Few of these weapons will perform as well as the top dogs because they're missing two key factors:
    • Deadly Strike
    • Off-weapon %ed (ie. Claw Mastery, Aura)
    When you max out BF, it becomes far more beneficial to boost that half of the equation (like with CM), than trying to boost the weapon-half, which suffers the 3/4 penalty. CB and Static work better in PvM, but I can't test that with the same level of accuracy.


    Elemental jewels are almost certainly less effective because of the 3/4 penalty, whereas the damage gained from %ed jewels only suffer that on the weapon-half. That said, with high levels of BF, Moser's socketed with 2x 40%ed jewels will likely net more damage than Tiamat's socketed with 1.


    Thanks onderduiker. If I'd known there was a topic on it at the Amazon Basin I probably wouldn't have bothered with such meticulous testing. ;) I've already confirmed nearly all of those Fury observations, but at least I won't need to be so thorough if I ever get around to testing Blade Sentinel.


    Yes it applies. It's right there in the test results :p


    The character file for the 10k Furysin is available here. It's in a .zip because the host wouldn't allow the .d2s to upload for some bizarre reason. I've never shared D2 character files before, so I hope that works.



  19. bcoe

    bcoe IncGamers Member

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    Re: Blade Fury Analysis

    Cool - thanks for the update. At what level did you try Schaefer's?

    Also, in my experience with BF (all as a 1-point wonder, though this analysis will soon change that), AR problems are a major limiting factor to its effectiveness. Has this been your experience too? I like Schaefers because of the huge AR boost, thus reducing the dependence on angelics, etc. I'd love to see your thoughts about AR issues in non-claw weapons...
  20. Ceramic Weasel

    Ceramic Weasel IncGamers Member

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    Re: Blade Fury Analysis

    All tests were with a lvl 90 Assassin.

    AR is a huge issue, even on Claws, seeing as how the +%AR from CM doesn't work with BF. This is why I value ITD on weapons so much, even if it means losing a bit of damage, and for bosses and champs I make sure my merc is around catching them in that lvl 12 Conviction aura. It's a bit inconvenient when he dies, though.

    Another alternative might be a high damage Fool's claw, combined with a Visionary (+1-99%AR) helm/circlet, but I haven't tried this yet.



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