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Best elite polearm

Discussion in 'Necromancer' started by donshi, Mar 16, 2009. | Replies: 7 | Views: 4455

  1. donshi

    donshi IncGamers Member

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    Best elite polearm

    Trying to determine which weapon would be best for my summoner, to stick an infinity in.

    Using a simple calculator, in terms of just DPS it seems that (correct me if I'm wrong):
    Great poleaxe > Giant thresher > thresher > cryptic axe > colossus voulge

    GP has base speed of [0]
    GT + T [-10]
    CA + CV [10]

    GP seems to dominate in DPS. But wearing Guillame's face + infinity has a 75% Crushing Blow and 15% Deadly Strike, the GT will have a better chance to active CB/DS.

    To me, it seems that either the Great Poleaxe or Giant Thresher is the best choice.
    1) I don't know how to evaluate these two. Great poleaxe has better damage for regular hits, and its CB and DS will hit harder. Giant thresher will simply active DS and CB more often.

    2) I don't understand why CA is the preferred choice.. Is it the high max damage? Is it just the low str req (then why not thresher.. DPS is only slightly lower than giant thresher)?

    3) I don't know how merc IAS works.. so what would introducing a lvl 9 fanaticism aura change?

    4) Does range matter? I heard that it was fixed at 3 for act 2 mercs?

    5) Why is the Ogre Axe completely disregarded? It seems similar to GP, minus the 26+ str req.

    6) I'm thinking of carrying around insight just for lv85/key runs. Removing CB, DS, and fanatacism form the picture, which would be optimal choice?
  2. CCCenturion

    CCCenturion IncGamers Member

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    Re: Best elite polearm

    I'm not an expert -- I made my Infinity out of a CV because I was too impatient to wait until I found better weapons, but more importantly because I didn't trust the HRs I bought to make it. (I ended up finding a 4os GP and a 4os Thresher within 2 weeks of making it.) I will say that even though I didn't use the best weapon, I've still been very happy with its performance, except for the huge strength requirement, which can put some limitations on your merc's other gear.

    So here are my amateur opinions:

    1) I would expect the GT to perform better than the GP overall, because either way it's going to be a strong enough weapon to kill any of the normal monsters without much trouble, but against bosses and Ubers, activating CB and DS more often will make a bigger difference in killing speed.

    2) CA is probably the popular choice because it has the highest average damage per hit, and most people are too lazy to calculate DPS and see that the faster weapons perform better in the long run. Never be afraid to challenge conventional wisdom. It's usually wrong, anyway.

    3) Good question. I'd love to know too. I know Fanaticism helps your merc, but do mercs have a fixed down-time between attacks, like skellies do?

    4) I've also heard that the range is fixed, but I'm not sure.

    5) Ogre Axe only gets up to 3 sockets.

    6) That's what I do, and it works for me. I don't know how much space you have in your inventory, but sometimes I'll put Insight on my merc, keep Infinity in my backpack (which I can't zip up all the way because the handle pokes out a bit), and just switch them when I get to the boss. I leave 8-12 open squares in my inventory to pick up any drops that look decent.
  3. Dethklok

    Dethklok IncGamers Member

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    Re: Best elite polearm

    1) With DS it doesn't matter (you should treat DS as a simple +X% damage that gets calculated after everything else, and is a little random). However, CB can be a big deal. It really isn't cut-and-dry, even for a summon necro, and has more to do with what you're planning on using the character for. If you are going to primarily be doing uber tristram, then GT wins due to CB. If you're primarily going to be doing pit runs, GPA wins. If you're mixing the two, I guess it's a toss-up, but the prudent choice would be GT.

    2) CA is the preferred choice because people, in general, are really, really, REALLY bad at math.

    3) Breakpoints here. To factor in Fanatacism, check the EIAS table and use the following formula:
    (120*I)/(120+I)-W+S
    where I is IAS from items, W is the weapon speed mod (-10 for GT, 0 for GPA, 10 for CA), and S is skill-based IAS (such as Fanatacism).

    4) I'm not 100% sure but I really doubt it's capped. When I had a lower-range polearm on my merc, I never saw him reach over skeletons. I put a Grim Scythe on him, suddenly he's attacking even though there's a skeleton between him and his target. However, if you plan on telebombing your targets it really doesn't matter.

    5) The Ogre Axe has a maximum of 3 sockets. That prevents it from getting the good runewords (Infinity and Insight).

    6) Remove CB from the picture and GPA is obviously the best choice. CB is the only reason to go GT, although it's a big one.

    edit: slvl15 Fanatacism is the same as slvl14 in terms of attack speed. FPJ = frames per Jab.
    Code:
    10WSM   slvl9   0WSM    slvl9   -10WSM  slvl9
    IAS  FPJ  FPA   IAS  FPJ  FPA   IAS  FPJ  FPA
    0    12   13    0    11   12    0    11   11
    10   11   12    10   11   11    10   10   10
    20   11   11    15   10   11    20   9    10
    30   10   11    20   10   10    25   9    9
    35   10   10    35   9    10    55   8    9
    55   9    10    45   9    9
    65   9    9     75   8    9
    105  8    9
    
    10WSM  slvl12   0WSM   slvl12   -10WSM slvl12
    IAS  FPJ  FPA   IAS  FPJ  FPA   IAS  FPJ  FPA
    0    12   13    0    11   12    0    11   11
    10   11   12    10   11   11    10   10   10
    15   11   11    15   10   11    20   9    10
    25   10   11    20   10   10    25   9    9
    35   10   10    35   9    10    50   8    9
    50   9    10    40   9    9
    60   9    9     70   8    9
    100  8    9
    
    10WSM  slvl13   0WSM   slvl13   -10WSM slvl13
    IAS  FPJ  FPA   IAS  FPJ  FPA   IAS  FPJ  FPA
    0    12   13    0    11   12    0    11   11
    10   11   12    10   10   11    10   10   10
    15   11   11    20   10   10    20   9    10
    25   10   11    30   9    10    25   9    9
    35   10   10    40   9    9     50   8    9
    50   9    10    70   8    9
    60   9    9
    95   8    9
    
    10WSM  slvl14   0WSM   slvl14   -10WSM slvl14
    IAS  FPJ  FPA   IAS  FPJ  FPA   IAS  FPJ  FPA
    0    12   13    0    11   12    0    11   11
    10   11   12    10   10   11    10   10   10
    15   11   11    15   10   10    15   9    10
    25   10   11    30   9    10    25   9    9
    30   10   10    40   9    9     45   8    9
    50   9    10    65   8    9
    60   9    9
    95   8    9
    Last edited: Mar 16, 2009
  4. donshi

    donshi IncGamers Member

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    Re: Best elite polearm

    Thanks to both of you for the informative answers!

    I used the link provided by Dethlok. Here are my findings:

    -With lvl9 fanaticism (beast) and 0 IAS, there is no difference for Great Poleaxe or Giant Thresher in attack speed, while cryptic Axes are slower.
    -Without beast and 0 IAS, GT is 1 breakpoint quicker than GP. While, CV and CA are several breakpoints behind.

    There also seems to be a general consensus that merc ranges are fixed, though I've yet to find any proof. If it wern't fixed, it would only make GP/GT better.

    I also realized that the DPS for GT, T, CA, and CV are all relatively similar (The differences between GT+T and CA+CV being completely negligible imo..), but GP has by far greater DPS than all the polearms.

    So in summary, Great poleaxe is definitely the best choice with infinity. Giant Threshers and Threshers are the second best choices (I think it's definitely a plus that Threshers only have 152 str req btw). And CA's just seem to flat out suck.... -shrug-

    I guess the only thing I didn't factor is if the range in min and max damage has any affect. In other words, if having a weapon that does a constant 500,000 dmg or 1-1,000,000 is better. Nothing popped up with google unfortunately :p
  5. CCCenturion

    CCCenturion IncGamers Member

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    Re: Best elite polearm

    Yeah, after thinking about all this, I think I might just give Charsi my Infinity CV and start over...


    Just kidding, of course. But I do think that strength requirements play a major role until you hit level 90 or so. My level 80 merc needs to wear a rare circlet I found that gives +30 strength, socketed with a P Amethyst for +10 more, and he has 216 strength, just a little more than the 210 required to hold that thing. I think the damage is decent; more would always be better but he does well enough. The main thing I regret about using a CV is that if I want him to wear Fort, my helm choices are very limited.


    You know, I just looked up the strength requirement on a Cryptic Axe, and it's only 165, the second lowest of all elite polearms. Maybe that's the real reason that CA's are so popular?
  6. Dethklok

    Dethklok IncGamers Member

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    Re: Best elite polearm

    I really should take back what I said about the Cryptic Axe. Due to the irregular way in which IAS works, it's sometimes the best choice from a straight DPS perspective. Check out my post in the Statistics forum for the full results of my maths.
  7. donshi

    donshi IncGamers Member

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    Re: Best elite polearm

    Ah thanks for the elaboration. Though there is no difference for my purposes, unless I decide not to go beast. I'm going to stick to infinity, and no viable armors have IAS. So the possible IAS combinations would be 0, 15 (jeweled unique helm), 20 (andariel's), or 35 (andariel's + jewel) With lvl 9, 14, or 15 fanaticism, GPA has more DPS with jabs in all instances. Without fanaticism, Cryptic axe would win only at 35 IAS (though DPS for normal attacks would be higher for GPA).


    Last edited: Mar 17, 2009
  8. donshi

    donshi IncGamers Member

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    Re: Best elite polearm

    Haha, I would suggest you wear an andy and level your merc up a bit then :p. Leveling up to 89 took a pretty short time doing baal runs.

    I actually also have an eth CV with a ber in it and a ber ist sitting around. I wouldn't mind waiting for a GPA, but the problem is that theyre so incredibly difficult to find. I've yet to see one on the boards.

    But on the bright side, andariel's + 15ias jewel + CV will yield more DPS than a GPA if you're not going to use faith or beast.

    woops double post.


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