Latest Diablo 3 News
DiabloWiki Updates
Support the site! Become a Diablo: IncGamers PAL - Remove ads and more!

Baal Running character advice

Discussion in 'Single Player Forum' started by Kitriara, Dec 27, 2010. | Replies: 22 | Views: 1162

  1. Kitriara

    Kitriara IncGamers Member

    Joined:
    Jan 30, 2004
    Messages:
    511
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    255
    Baal Running character advice

    Hey all.

    For the entirety of my D2 career, I have generally been against MFing as I prefer to just play. However, after the "what are your goals" thread the other day, I decided that, as one of my final goals for this game, I'd like to start and complete a self-found grail. Looks like I'll need some runners! I already have a Poisonmancer I've spec'd to do Andy/Meph/Pit runs (I have a ridiculous map for all 3). But I have my WWS zon that I'm going to use for Baal, methinks.

    My main question is regarding damage. I'm using a Might merc.

    Main weapon: WWS
    Swap: A nice upped Goldstrike Arch. 198% damage to demons!
    Gloves: Laying of hands
    Armor: I can make COH if I cube all my runes
    -----> EDIT: would it better to cube up to Fortitude instead?

    Basically, this setup would give me ridiculous +damage to demons while keeping me safe (I play HC). I have an amulet with teleport charges to get around.

    I figure I use WWS to proc amp damage, then switch to Goldstrike and with all that +damage to demons I'll chew through anything.

    I also found a +25% damage to demons, +50 AR, +10 life jewel the other day that I'll probably socket in the Goldstrike.

    Thoughts on this as my basic setup?
     
    Last edited: Dec 27, 2010
  2. Arkardo

    Arkardo IncGamers Member

    Joined:
    Sep 30, 2006
    Messages:
    3,003
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    466
    Re: Baal Running character advice

    Looks pretty good! One thing to note, though, is that, as awesome as WWS's are, the AD is very unreliable. You'll need some other way of dealing with PI's. I think FA did the trick nicely, though.

    Anyway, could you elaborate a bit more on the rest of your gear and what other items you have? I'd do something like this:
    Um'd Tal Rasha's mask (dual leech, 30% all resist, +life, +mana)
    String of Ears (life leech, 10-15% DR)
    War Traveller (+damage, MF)
    The Cat's Eye (FRW, +dex, IAS)
    Raven Frost (CBF, +dex, AR, cold absorb, even adds cold damage to slow monsters)
    BK's WB (+1 skill, life leech, +life) / rare leech ring

    Resists ARE an issue with this setup. I guess choosing CoH over Fortitude wouldn't be unwise.

    With this setup you'll have 40% IAS for a 1o frame attack. At 63% IAS youll attack one frame faster, so if you like FA and Multishot a lot, stick two Shaels (or IAS/whatever jewels) in your Witchwild String. If not, Eth's and/or +damage% jewels it is.

    You might also want to consider respec'ing to a Fury/Bow hybrid build. In that case, you might want to make that CoH and find a nice Kira's Guardian.

    Wow, I only now realize it is Witchwild String, not Wildwitch. ^^
     
  3. Kitriara

    Kitriara IncGamers Member

    Joined:
    Jan 30, 2004
    Messages:
    511
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    255
    Re: Baal Running character advice

    I cant remember all my gear now, but I'm using a Stealskull, Nosferatus, Raven Frost + rare rings, and rare MF boots right now.

    Total with tons of charms and stuff I probably have like 200-250 MF depending on how I spec. Should be enough to find a few items if I'm crushing things fast enough?...
     
  4. helvete

    helvete IncGamers Member

    Joined:
    Jul 17, 2004
    Messages:
    5,570
    Likes Received:
    22
    Trophy Points:
    469
    Re: Baal Running character advice

    Don't socket %demon damage in weapons. Socket %ED/max if you have it, or whatever nets the most damage from your %ed or +max jewels. This because %demon damage on weapons acts just like %demon damage from other slots, so you'll be better off increasing your weapon damage.

    (Even if you had a 50% demon damage jewel, LoH and a 100 average dmg weapon, the jewel would only add to LoHs already very high demon damage, so 100 average +400% against demons = 500 average against demons. A +20 max jewel (=110 average now on weapon) would net 110 +350% against demons = 495 average damage against demons; almost the same, but now dex/fort/might/etc will have 10% more base damage to work with, so you'll be better off. Just use whatever jewel which increases your weapon damage the most).

    And yes, do go for fort. +300% damage is MASSIVE, it also has resists/life, and you can make up for resists with charms. %damage cannot come from charmos, only +min/max/ar.
     
  5. Arkardo

    Arkardo IncGamers Member

    Joined:
    Sep 30, 2006
    Messages:
    3,003
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    466
    Re: Baal Running character advice

    It's true that the 300% ED is awesome, but CoH has 100% ED vs. Undead and 200% ED vs. Demons. Since four out of five waves and Baal himself are demons, the difference isn't really that big. Also, CoH has 20 strength, which is another 20% ED right there (unless you need that strength for your bow, of course), has life leech, DR and MF. As much as I love Fort, considering this is HC we're talking about, I'd seriously consider CoH.

    Though I would just stick to one bow, because I think Helvete's definitely got a point with the ED vs. Demons. Try to get a CtA on swtich instead, or go with the Fury/Bow spec.

    Oh, and be sure to have a source of knockback somewhere!
     
  6. Kitriara

    Kitriara IncGamers Member

    Joined:
    Jan 30, 2004
    Messages:
    511
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    255
    Re: Baal Running character advice

    Hmm, I may have to go with COH for safety. Baal running wont be fun if I deeds out. The huge resist on it is probably too good to pass up, sadly.

    If ALL I'm doing is teleporting to then running the minions and baal, will that 300% really make much of a difference? Doesnt off-weapon ED and +demons ED work the same way? If so, I'm really only sacrificing 100% ED from downgrading 300% total to 200% to demons.

    Plus, COH does have that extra 25%, and every bit helps, since thats what I'll be doing this for.

    I'm open to counter argument though, hel.
     
  7. Noodle

    Noodle <img src="http://forums.diabloii.net/images/pal.gi

    Joined:
    Jul 18, 2003
    Messages:
    8,200
    Likes Received:
    44
    Trophy Points:
    168
    Re: Baal Running character advice

    Seeing as how the normal attack with a WWS is a level 20 Magic Arrow, physical immunes can be easily dealt with without having to pump Frozen Arrow. I've matted four strafers, all of which use WWS as either a main or switch, for this very reason.



     
  8. helvete

    helvete IncGamers Member

    Joined:
    Jul 17, 2004
    Messages:
    5,570
    Likes Received:
    22
    Trophy Points:
    469
    Re: Baal Running character advice

    Haha, didn't notice this was HC :)

    In which case, CoH is a clear winner.

    20str isn't damage for bows, btw, bows are dex/100 IIRC
     
  9. Arkardo

    Arkardo IncGamers Member

    Joined:
    Sep 30, 2006
    Messages:
    3,003
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    466
    Re: Baal Running character advice

    Hmm, I've used WWS for a while, and I don't remember MA being very powerful. I'll take your word for it, though. Do consider that FA also damages and freezes monsters in its AoE, which might come in handy once in a while.

    Whoops, I forgot that str doesn't improve ranged damage! :thumbup:



     
  10. NagisaFurukawa

    NagisaFurukawa IncGamers Member

    Joined:
    Feb 26, 2008
    Messages:
    4,381
    Likes Received:
    23
    Trophy Points:
    259
    Re: Baal Running character advice

    Even if it were SC, I'd say 'Chains of Honor' wins out for Baal running. The difference in damage between the two is relatively minimal, and the flexibility it opens elsewhere is extremely useful. The main question is just whether you want to invest in it.

    As an aside, I wouldn't teleport. It is simply a recipe for death with your low life and poor casting. Also, I would stick with one bow. As previously noted, Amplify Damage from WWS is hardly reliable, and you could easily do better than GSA in terms of damage. I'd probably go with something like Buriza if you're using Strafe, as that'll provide much more damage and a tad more safety. Using only one bow also keeps you from having to plan for both sets of IAS breakpoints/resistance needs/etc. as well. Additionally, although I don't know if you currently have it, you'll likely eventually equip your mercenary with The Reaper's Toll, which will eliminate the usefulness of Amplify Damage. Last, I agree that LF/Strafe would be significantly more efficient. Not saying you shouldn't do a pure bow build though. :)

    EDIT: By the way, strength does improve ranged damage, at least from the perspective that it potentially allows you to invest more points into dexterity. Also, I will take this time to second that Knockback suggestion.
     
  11. Kitriara

    Kitriara IncGamers Member

    Joined:
    Jan 30, 2004
    Messages:
    511
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    255
    Re: Baal Running character advice

    Thanks for all the advice guys! I think, for safety, I'll be going with COH for the resists and slight damage reduction.

    This character was originally a WWS strafer. Max strafe, penetrate, valk, the rest as I see fit. I already know which breakpoints and such I can hit with my setup - my main concern is just doing as much damage as I can with it once I get in.

    I may try swapping in a Buriza for a bit though =)

    Also, WWS's Magic Arrow can be a bit slow at times, but it definitely handles the immunes.
     
  12. Twoflower

    Twoflower Banned

    Joined:
    May 22, 2004
    Messages:
    1,584
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Re: Baal Running character advice

    I wouldnt advise to go up to Andariel with a poisonmancer :) I hear that she is pretty much immune to it.

    Could be something in my hearing though, I never know.
     
  13. RobbyD

    RobbyD IncGamers Member

    Joined:
    Jun 16, 2009
    Messages:
    2,575
    Likes Received:
    4
    Trophy Points:
    467
    Re: Baal Running character advice

    A Buriza is a pretty slow Strafe weapon, but has some really nice mods. Even so, if you use that, put a Nef (not a Shael) in it.


     
  14. Kitriara

    Kitriara IncGamers Member

    Joined:
    Jan 30, 2004
    Messages:
    511
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    255
    Re: Baal Running character advice

    I have a Blood Raven's Charge that I found, not sure how good that is though. I was mostly planning to stick with upgraded WWS and Goldstrike.

    My current poisonmancer takes down Hell Andy on players 3 in about 10 seconds! =)



     
  15. helvete

    helvete IncGamers Member

    Joined:
    Jul 17, 2004
    Messages:
    5,570
    Likes Received:
    22
    Trophy Points:
    469
    Re: Baal Running character advice

    That's because she isn't really immune, just highly resistant. Lower Resist, and the typical -90ish enemy poison resistance pretty much floors anything not still immune after LR.



     
  16. crawlingdeadman

    crawlingdeadman IncGamers Site Pal

    Joined:
    Jun 7, 2005
    Messages:
    10,669
    Likes Received:
    32
    Trophy Points:
    349
    Re: Baal Running character advice

    if you're running a boss with a zon, i suggest you make her at least partially a lightning zon. 20 into charged strike and 20 into another synergy (typically fury) will drop a boss much, much faster than any bow skill. with fury/cs you also have no worries about immunes.
     
  17. Ugla

    Ugla IncGamers Member

    Joined:
    Nov 29, 2004
    Messages:
    1,034
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    165
    Re: Baal Running character advice

    Before going into more detail on the build, I will restate some basic facts:
    1) If your ultimate purpose is completing the grail, there are more efficient MF targets than Baal&co., namely AT, or the Pit.
    2) Bowzon is unable to kill Baal in any reasonable amount of time.
    3) Bowzon is extremely fragile for WSK&Throne, certainly not recommended for HC.

    If you just need a break from other targets, and/or enjoy the challenge, keep in mind the following:
    - There are things out there, that can easily 1-hit kill your character. With some fairly high investment, you can lower that risk, but unless you keep your concentration up at ALL time, it's just wasted money. And we are not talking seconds here, but rather tenths of seconds.

    You can, of course, use some decent (yet not top-end) gear, mule-off any valuable finds and just see how far you can take her..

    - If you are considering expensive RWs like CoH, make a CtA first. Just for the record, a CtA MB/GMB will out-damage everything but WF and Buriza, the BO will help keep you safer, plus you get some additional MF.

    - I strongly suggest using a javelin switch to get out of nasty situations. As a bowzon, you get maxed block with pretty much any shield, and a healthy portion of added LR on your shield can make the difference between life and getting fried by Souls.

    - As Nagisa said, do not teleport. I may be repeating myself, but a bowzon blows against Baal, and she does not particularly shine against the Waves either. Your best bet is killing some mobs along the way, and most importantly not letting yourself killed.

    - Restrain from using Strafe. Otherwise, it will kill you one day. Stick with MS. Even if you already "know" the spawn, strafing can be extremely risky.

    - WWS is overrated. In the hands of an amazon, it's nothing more than an unreliable amp-trigger. In addition to its pitiful damage, the DS is mostly redundant with ~70% chance for double damage from a maxed-out CS, and the sockets are just about good for sockekting Shaels to make the "device" operational. Iirc, the fMA property is bugged and the arrows only look as magic, but damage as regular ones.
     
  18. NagisaFurukawa

    NagisaFurukawa IncGamers Member

    Joined:
    Feb 26, 2008
    Messages:
    4,381
    Likes Received:
    23
    Trophy Points:
    259
    Re: Baal Running character advice

    You can actually kill Baal somewhat faster with a Fleshripper on your switch. It doesn't compare to most other "standard" character, but I'm pretty sure it outpaces a pure bow by a tad. If nothing else, you have some extra safety with that shield out.

    'Call to Arms' GMB/MB is actually an okay idea. The one thing I have to say about this is that the BO can be somewhat short lived on an amazon (generally fewer potential skill granting items), so it might run out on you at a very inopportune occasion.

    One thing about javelin switch is that it overpowers the bow switch significantly unless you have a minimal lightning investment and relatively powerful bow. Not saying that this is a bad thing, rather that it might not be what the OP wants. Hybrid, again, is a very nice build though. Check out Kijya's guide in the amazon forum for that.

    Ugla is right about Strafe, in the sense that you have to be very careful with it, ESPECIALLY if you use a slower bow (a la Buriza). The nastiness of WSK doesn't help here.

    Last, I'm pretty sure WWS Magic Arrow is fully functional, or at least it's worked out okay when I exclusively used normal attack WWS on some characters.
     
  19. Kitriara

    Kitriara IncGamers Member

    Joined:
    Jan 30, 2004
    Messages:
    511
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    255
    Re: Baal Running character advice

    Hmm, well, you've all raised some very, very good points. I'm honestly completely rethinking even trying this.

    My poisonmancer that I mentioned (currently running Andy/Meph/Council/Pit circles) is incredibly decked out (for me at least). He has a Bramble, the important parts of Trangs, and a merc using Infinity as of a few days ago. He literally represents about 2 years worth of rune wealth accumulation. He also has a great amulet with teleport charges on it that I use to get around his amazing map roll for all of the things mentioned.

    Considering how good he is already and how much fun he is to play, I may simply finish my project of getting my WWS strafer through Hell Baal and just let her end there. Could I respec her into lightning jav or something? Sure, but I've run decked out javazons through hell too many times and despite how dominant it is, I'm just bored of it.

    Maybe I'll dual-purpose my poisonmancer to kill 2 birds with one stone: make him my main item finder for my newly started grail, and attempt to take him to 99.

    I really appreciate all of the insights and opinions everyone has had. I've learned a lot.
     
  20. skipjack

    skipjack IncGamers Member

    Joined:
    Jul 24, 2010
    Messages:
    300
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    77
    Re: Baal Running character advice

    Why is your Necro's merc wielding an Infinity?

    The Conviction aura has no impact on poison resistances, so Infinity should be rather mediocre compared to either Insight and Obedience.
     

Share This Page