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Arm of Kig Leoric vs. Beast Berserker Axe

Discussion in 'Necromancer' started by Holy Dude, Aug 29, 2013. | Replies: 25 | Views: 10737

  1. Holy Dude

    Holy Dude IncGamers Member

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    I know Leorics wand has a lot of +skills, ad beast has Fanatic aura, so what's better? I can't have both, because I'm using a Cta/Spirit on switch. My aim is pure PvM and boss killing. So what would be more ideal for my summon Necro?

    this is what he looks like if this helps:

    Helm: Shako
    Body: Enigma Mage Plate
    Belt: Arachnid Mesh
    Gloves: Frostburn
    Boots: Marrowalk
    Weapon: _____
    Shield: _____
    Ammy: Maras
    Rings: Sojs
  2. Namtar

    Namtar IncGamers Member

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    Keep in mind that the Fanatacism aura from Beast also helps your mercenary. With you wielding Beast, your merc having an innate Might aura, the buff from Battle Orders, and some good gear, your merc should hit very, very hard, hopefully with Crushing Blow. The boost to damage against bosses from AoKL's effect on your skeleton's isn't really comparable: mercenaries have the potential to do much more damage than skeletons. With that in mind, I'd favor Beast.
  3. Holy Dude

    Holy Dude IncGamers Member

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    Thanks for the info. =) I'll use Beast
  4. Erfel

    Erfel IncGamers Member

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    Armor of king leoric for you, and a beast iron golem is the best combo :)

    Still, if you don't want to use the iron golem, beast >> leoric.


    P.S.
    Homunculus is the way... and why frostburn? A summoner don't need much mana... magefist helps teleporting faster and gives +1 to corpse explosion :)
  5. Holy Dude

    Holy Dude IncGamers Member

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    Pk thanks, I'll use Magefist and Homunculus. But is it better to use Beast on a Golem or a Merc? Because I don't wanna risk getting my golem killed. How do up you suggest keeping him alive?
  6. Namtar

    Namtar IncGamers Member

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    If you're at all worried about wasting your runes or items on Iron Golem, then it's just not worth it. Teleport from Enigma can bring the golem back to you, which can prevent letting it get killed, and it's fairly resilient anyway, but there's always a chance that it will die or just disappear. From what I've seen, if one uses Iron Golem, eventually one will lose it. If the thought of all those runes going into a summon that will eventually die or just inexplicably vanish seems too risky, then just don't do it. Wield the Beast yourself and you'll always have it.

    But yeah, that being said, for those that just don't care and can afford to throw away the runes, putting Beast on the Iron Golem frees up the weapon slot for something else. Technically, if one wants the most damage output that way, the best combo would be to wield a Faith bow (for a much higher level Fanatacism than Beast) in the necromancer's weapon slot and use the Iron Golem slot for a Pride runeword.
  7. Erfel

    Erfel IncGamers Member

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    Mmmm... why should you use pride on your golem instead of giving it to your merc?
    Merc with pride
    Faith iron golem
    Leoric on yourself


    @holy dude: beast can only be done in an axe, so no chance to give beast to your merc :)
  8. Namtar

    Namtar IncGamers Member

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    Because Pride really doesn't hit that hard. You'd be sacrificing a lot of the damage output of your strongest damage dealer. That's assuming that one wants a mercenary as a damage dealer (and in that case, Breath of the Dying would be the ideal weapon for the mercenary). If one wanted to play a different sort of build, where the mercenary doesn't hit as hard and is meant to be an aura machine, then of course Pride would be an option. It wouldn't be the best option, though, if the assumption is that the damage is coming from skeletons. Infinity would help them more than Pride.
    Last edited: Sep 2, 2013
  9. Holy Dude

    Holy Dude IncGamers Member

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    Ok, these are my changes:

    -Magefist instead of Frostburn
    -Beast instead of Leoric
    -Not focusing so heavily on Iron Golems (probably just using clay for now)
    -Infinity on Merc

    Oh one last thing. A lot of people say Trang Gloves? So trangs or Magefist?
  10. Namtar

    Namtar IncGamers Member

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    I've used Trag-Oul's Claws on my summoners. You'll have general +skills anyway, but bumping up the skill levels on your curses is nice. You could certainly get away with Magefist too. You get the rest of the gear figured out yet? Going with Homunculus for your main shield?

    Infinity works quite well and is, as far as I know, the best bet for helping squeeze as much as you can out of your skeletons. I've come to prefer Breath of the Dying, which can potentially hit so hard and so fast that it makes skeletons seem superfluous.
  11. Erfel

    Erfel IncGamers Member

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    Trang vs magefist... it's just your choice :)

    Mmm... why infinity should increase skeletons damage?? It's only about the mages?
    Still a good point about the low damage from pride... most of all i don't like pride on a summoner because of the freezing mod, splattering some useful corpses
  12. Holy Dude

    Holy Dude IncGamers Member

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    I'm just curious. Are the builds sold on mule factory accurate? I looked at it to make my Bowazon, but is copying their builds good?
  13. Namtar

    Namtar IncGamers Member

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    Lowering monster defense makes the skeletons hit more often (this is not enough to make the skeletons do more DPS than they would with the Concentration aura from Pride, at least not against targets against which the skeletons already have a high chance to hit, but it's still significant). It also increases the elemental damage from the mages. It also increases the fire damage from Corpse Explosion.

    I don't remember all the details and I've fallen for BOtD anyway, but there have been Infinity vs. Pride comparisons specific to summoners that you could look up if you want more details. I think the bottom line in most cases was that if the merc's own damage was a consideration at all (and the merc can potentially deal a lot of damage), Infinity beats Pride and it's not even close.
  14. minuses

    minuses IncGamers Member

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    Just use hoto and homun to max out your resist. Put on mages to hit 75% fcr. You do not really need that extra dps since amp pretty much helps your merc and skeles dominate everything especially when you use CS. If you want fanat then make ig out of an ebeast etten. Just make sure your golem does not die.
  15. Psychonautical

    Psychonautical IncGamers Member

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    If I remember correctly, you can't make an Iron Golem out of bows OR crossbows, so this is a no-go.
  16. Hookipa

    Hookipa IncGamers Member

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    Use both KoAL and Beast.

    Use first KoAL to summon all your skellies, they will have the stats with which they have been summoned and then switch to Beast. You will lose a maximum of 2 skeletons. Since your skeletons will not die often or dissappear bc Enigma, recasting wont be a problem/hassle.

    Losing 2 skeletons does not outweigh the increased ias and dmg of Beast.

    And infinity over pride bc of the reasons already mentioned.
  17. Black Lotus

    Black Lotus IncGamers Member

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    Eh topics in necro thread do never change :)
    Actually, you can. AoKL only uses 2x1 slot in inventory, just put it on when you leave the game and summon the army once you've joined the new one. This would be the best decision if you're worried about skeleton's damage, and the gain from that Arm in inventory is better than any of two small charms/large one.

    This way, Leoric+Spirit is prebuff stuff while Beast is something which you should be equipped with, all the time. Beast helps your mercenary to break BPs so that is about 30% of pure dps increase (including crushing blow hits!).

    Both give 20fcr, thats the point. I personally always pick magefists.

    A thing about Pride IG: I used to make it like, 3-4 times per ladder for fun, but it was always better with insight.
  18. Zarniwoop

    Zarniwoop IncGamers Site Pal

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    I am always a necro, and I tried beast one ladder.

    Complete waste of time for my playstyle, which is telefrag.

    Once you have a body on the ground, you'll out damage your entire army.

    I'd use a hoto over both (and do).

    The only exception would probably be if you want to be an UBERS necro.
  19. Namtar

    Namtar IncGamers Member

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    You seem to be saying that because you just teleport around and destroy everything with Corpse Explosion, Beast is useless. And so it follows that HotO, which gives more +skills and FCR, is better because it helps Corpse Explosion more.

    On /players1, Corpse Explosion doesn't need help from gear to destroy everything. FCR isn't all that impressive on a spell that is only being cast three or four times before moving on. Getting the first corpse for a chain faster would be better, and that's done by improving mercenary damage (Beast is one way to do that). Beast, for skeletons, revived, and a mercenary, is also better for areas where Corpse Explosion is ineffective (mostly bosses). On higher player counts, cast rate isn't the limiting factor for Corpse Explosion (availability of corpses is), so the fact that HotO gives it is usually irrelevant, and Beast is still good for all the same reasons. Perhaps even moreso, because Corpse Explosion will be dealing, proportionally, less damage (in theory it will actually be doing the same damage, but since that damage won't usually be taking out monsters in one hit, the necromancer's other damage sources will be hitting more).

    Corpse Explosion is a great skill, especially for summoners, but for areas where it is most effective, it doesn't need help anyway, and for areas where it is ineffective, devoting equipment slots to it is unproductive. Not that Heart of the Oak wouldn't work. It's a powerful weapon. But Beast certainly isn't a waste of time.
  20. Psychonautical

    Psychonautical IncGamers Member

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    Heart of the Oak has WAY moe benefits than skills and cast rate.

    Aside from the fact that it is on-par skill-wise with the Arm (only 2 fewer, but makes up for it by upping Curses, Corpse Explosion and Bone Armor significantly), don't forget that:

    1. It comes with +10 to Dexterity. This is paramount to a Necromancer's build when blocking is a factor. A few saved points or simply better blocking if you have yet to max means more survivability.

    2. It isn't just a matter of more, it is a LOT more when regarding cast rate. 40% is a whopper, considering most of the best wands only have 20%. When it comes to using teleport, yeah, speed IS important, as is laying out Corpse Explosions given that, regardless of the Necromancer, this will always be the best skill to clear mobs.

    3. The resists, quite obviously, are one of the biggest factors here. Up to 40 resist all, when compared to Beast's 0 and Arm's potential for small amounts via the use of one jewel, this makes Hoto very difficult to pass up.

    4. While yes, the level of Oak Sage granted by the charge is laughably weak, when used with a Necromancer who knows how to corral his army, it can stick around. Hammerdins find it useless because it is always two targets. Flood the screen with potential chumps to distract the monsters though, and it isn't unheard of for the little fireball to survive. Even just the measly life from Oak Sage is enough to grant an enormous amount of longevity to your minions.

    5. It grant 20 replenish life. Now, hear me out, because people really seem to not care about this stat. And rightfully so, given that a majority of players are using Barbarians, Druids, Amazons and Paladins so often that they are often not used to the measly 500-1500 base life that a Necromancer will usually have depending on how much you spent in Dex. 20 replenish life is a drop in the bucket for them. And even for a low-life (ha) necromancer it is a bit low, but people often forget that many summoners use Trang-Oul's set, which already grants 25 replenish life. 45 or more can really add up and cause some decent healing for Necros with low health to begin with, and while it isn't necessarily game-changing, it can often lead to you needing fewer pots and trips to town as you stand behind your meat shields and steadily heal to full health without realizing it.

    In my opinion, Hoto beats them both hands down, especially when using Enigma or Trang-Oul's. The only time I'd even consider a Beast is if I were trying to make the rare Uber Necromancer. Other than that, like it or not, Corpse Explosion is going to be what gets you 85%+ of your kills, and as such it is prudent that it be as powerful as possible while sacrificing as little power from your bone chaps, instead of Beast which severely powers down your Corpse Explosion (as well as Skeletons life) in favor of a bit more damage per second. It's basically trading in superior crowd control, travel speed and safety to make your skeletons into glass cannons.

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