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[Build] 1.0.5, the "Whirlwind" DH at long last!

Discussion in 'Demon Hunter' started by Such Violent Storms, Sep 21, 2012. | Replies: 67 | Views: 50947

  1. Such Violent Storms

    Such Violent Storms IncGamers Member

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    Tank/Damage rolled into something awesome.

    In 1.0.5, the DH saw some lovely changes. Strafe had its cost reduced, Perfectionist got buffed, Gloom got quasi-buffed, Sentry got buffed and we can have 2 out vanilla, we got cool new pets and other stuff. Strafe also got the ability to WW through mobs, meaning you can cram in a lot more hits.

    First, the skills overview:

    Passives
    Archery, Vengeance, Nightstalker
    Variants: Perfectionist (gear dependent)

    Nighstalker fuels discipline as you rake in the crits from various skills (mostly Strafe/Chakram).

    Actives
    1) Chakram - Shuriken Cloud; free damage, 33% proc scalar, breaks destructibles for you, and looks awesome
    Variants: none

    2) Strafe - Demolition; strafe into mobs, it will AoE lots of them, 50% proc coefficient for Nightstalker and Life on Hit
    Variants: none

    3) Shadow Power-Gloom; Mitigates damage and heals for tough spots
    Variants: probably none

    4) Companion - Bat; Hatred regen
    Variants: Boar (gear dependent)

    5) Preparation - Punishment; use it as your hatred extinguishes to fill it back up (fueled by Nightstalker)
    Variants: probably none

    6) Personal choice:
    Sentry - Chain of Torment; The chain has a 75% proc coefficient (LoH, Crits) and deals good damage
    Sentry - Guardian Turret; plop one of these in a mob to WW inside it
    Rain of Vengeance - Dark Cloud; free damage that follows you
    SS - Lingering Fog
    Vault - Tumble, Acrobatics


    -- You will use a 1H:
    ** 1H/shield for crit chance on shield and defensive stats
    ** 1H/Quiver for hatred regen on quiver, IAS, and crit chance
    ** 1H/1H for maximum life/hit and other goodies at the cost of crit chance and defense

    -- Depending on playstyle and character durability, you may need at least one skill like SS or Vault to break Jailer, etc. Some DHs will just be able to tank through getting CC'd, though.

    http://diablonut.incgamers.com/skil...fQStSdW5lX0ErMjA5NzM0KzE1NTcxNCsyMTgzNTArMQ==

    Video of functional 1H/Shield, MP2, with no Life on Hit (!!!!), 40kdps(courtesy Poekel):




    http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=MVbpj0zR_yI

    LoH, defense, crit, crit damage. Use discipline to fuel hatred. Use hatred to fuel strafe. Use strafe to explode things!

    Also, strafe can get "+% increased crit chance" on Cloaks and SoJ. Don't bother with Mara's/Skull Grasp.

    Happy demolishing!
    Last edited by a moderator: Nov 28, 2012
  2. tomaszk

    tomaszk IncGamers Member

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    The problem is proc coefficient for strafe is very low :( not gonna give enough disc I think.
    I will try it though and a trap hunter as well as it finally seems more viable playstyle now.


    Got a question on proc coefficients - entangling arrow and hungering arror both have one rune each which proc coefs >100% how is it applied in case of Nightstalker passive chance to gain 1 discipline? If I have 30% crit chance and use shock collar is my chance to gain discipline 1.6 x 0.3?

  3. Draba

    Draba IncGamers Member

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    Emberstrafe will likely use the same mechanic as cinders, no yellow crits=no discipline. You'll need less than 1 discipline/second on top of the natural regen to constantly spin, certainly doable even with the bad coefficients of strafe and cloud.

    For actually pulling the build off( surviving the strafe through mobs, actualy being able to fuel shadow power every once in a while ) the gear will be very expensive, though. Definitely needs 1h+shield without a budget well over 100M, and that may be a low estimate. With monstrously good equipment it'd probably be one of the fastest ways to kill ****( maybe even strafe/demolition is viable ). Too bad I'll be playing around with traps and sentries for a while :)

    These skills get 2 procs at half of the listed strength:
    - 1 from the original attack
    - 1 at the start of the dot, if the target survived the main attack

    I tested it for a pretty long time with sharpshooter and it seems like you can only get an NS proc off the proc on the main attack( makes sense as dots don't get yellow crits ), at the halved coefficient's rate( 0.65 for cinder arrow, 0.8 for shock collar ).
    You don't always get discipline when using these attacks at 100% crit chance and I've never got 2 without pierce on CA so I'm 95% certain this is the way they work. The 2 procs at halved strength part is definitely true.
    Last edited: Sep 21, 2012
  4. ilm

    ilm IncGamers Member

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    I tried strafe recently, and I don't see how the patch would improve the terrible damage, low range, and high hatred cost. With a 1.5 attacks/second and at 12 hatred and with a bat companion, you're looking at a 11/s net hatred drain. That's not going to give you a lot of time. I know you're relying on Prep - Punishment, but I think you'll need lots more procs from Nightstalker than I think you're likely to get.

    Worth a try though :). Let us know how it goes; I don't have the cash to rebuild my gear for this.
  5. thefranklin

    thefranklin IncGamers Member

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    The biggest problem of strafe is the low damage and non-piercing projectiles. WW hits all monsters you whirl around, strafe will only fire individual shots. There will still be a huge difference between strafe and other spenders.

    Although it is very nice we could use it to get out of tight spots. Now give us back our tank DH caltrops!
  6. Such Violent Storms

    Such Violent Storms IncGamers Member

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    If emberstrafe trail can't crit, then there's actually a second (perhaps better in the first place) option. The Demolition rune throw grenades which explode to hit more enemies than single arrows, and Demolition actually has a higher proc scalar at .25. With the number of enemies hit Strafing through groups, plus attack speed, you should be able to get sufficient heals from LoH and hopefully enough disc to fuel nightstalker.

    The gear would be a few Hatred regen items, crit gear, and a smidge more tanky than normal. Remember Inferno is getting nerfed again in 1.0.5, so I don't think survivability will be an issue.

    Lastly I've yet to decide on a 1H or 2H crossbow for Archery passive:
    2H is classic "moar damage" option; slower APS means less Hatred drain but also fewer LoH procs
    1H gives +10% crit chance yielding more nightstalker procs but smaller damage packets; can use a shield, although I don't think it's necessary.

    I'm leaning more toward 1H.
  7. Doctor Clock

    Doctor Clock IncGamers Member

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    I've used a Strafe build in 1.0.4. on my DH with a Hellion crossbow. There were some Hatred issues, but I also didn't have the best Crit gear and had no Hatred regen. One of my rings had zero crit, and most of the gear I bought was cheap just so I could try out the class. I actually think something like Bola shot might be better than RoV. The range is getting a buff, so it adds some AoE to clear big groups of trash quickly.
  8. Kalixian

    Kalixian IncGamers Member

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    The only reason I've found to use 1h is to dual wield them with big LoH. Their damage is terrible compared to 2h + quiver. Blizz really dropped the ball IMO on allowing 2h + quiver because it completely throws off the balancing, which screws the dual 1h builds.
  9. Such Violent Storms

    Such Violent Storms IncGamers Member

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    Edited OP to include Demolition instead of Emberstrafe, considering Emberstrafe trail of fire probably can't crit. Also added variant to fourth skill.

    2x 1H crossbows is good for Life on Hit and the +10% crit chance bonus from archery, that's about it.

    I wish the PTR was live.
  10. Such Violent Storms

    Such Violent Storms IncGamers Member

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    Ok, seriously guise. I found out Demolition has a 50% proc scalar, and Shuriken Cloud has a 33% proc scalar. Spamming grenades from strafe in the middle of mobs and hitting stuff with shuriken while strafing should totally make this work, right?

    I even came up with 2 new ideas: setting a sentry (sentries) with Chain of Torment while strafing through mobs is free damage, and it has a 75% proc coefficient per tick!!! Also, using bait the trap on a group of mobs and then strafing through that trap is an interesting way of getting more crit chance.

    Could someone with the resources (high crit gear, decent stats, understands how it should work, smart brain) test this out? With both a 2H crossbow + quiver and 1H crossbow + quiver? I would but my I have yet to level my DH... :(
  11. Poekel

    Poekel IncGamers Member

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    Made a vid. With my current stats PL1 works quite nice, PL2 still is too much. Generally it is working (does not seem to be overpowerd but in line with other builds; the not having to stop mechanic is really nice though).

    1 hand/shield seems to be viable. You would need Vengeance and Nighstalker and a high crit chance though. 2 hand/quiver works with Vengeance/Bat alone so you could concentrate on defensive stats instead of crit chance:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OjATH4ykbt4

    So if you've got some really good items or lots of ingame gold you might try it out, as I'm not running around with the best items (btw: it's possible to get 90%+ crit chance with strafe and some tests I did suggested that crit chance cap of 75% does not apply to bonus skill crit chance from gear).
  12. Such Violent Storms

    Such Violent Storms IncGamers Member

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    Nice! Awesome! Thank you! MP1 is currently bugged in that it's way harder than it should be, it's harder than current inferno even though current inferno should be MP3-4. So the fact you can do it on MP1 is awesome.

    How is sentry working for you, have you tried with 2x sentries out at once? And what's your life/hit? For some reason I can't get to your profile. Again I can't thank you enough! Vielen, herzlichen Dank!! :)
    Last edited: Sep 28, 2012
  13. Poekel

    Poekel IncGamers Member

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    Not in my experience from act 3 (act 1 and 2 get beefed up considerably at MP1 though). No MP is easy mode. MP1 is harder, but easier than current inferno, MP2 seems to be similar to now and MP3 seems to be harder (for my DH at least, Blizz stated that current difficulty should be between MP2 and 3).

    I mainly use sentry as added damage against elites or really high hp monsters. Otherwise I might get some hatred problems. Might have to look, if chain of torment still can crit. 2 chain sentries work quite well together (but I can't be bothered to be looking out for another cooldown to expire), best is to place them close together so both chains will hit the same enemy (if the have been placed opposite of each other you will be in the middle).

    It's a EU profile: http://eu.battle.net/d3/en/profile/Poekel-2407/hero/231168
    In 1.04 I'm running a Chakram DH though, so some items have changed. Poison Nova from Andariels is quite nice as it's a good damage boost. I don't have any Life on Hit or Life Steal. Most of my gained life is from Sp (Gloom; 5 seconds is really great) and health globes (got +5 health pickup on Andariels. Health Pickup should not be underestimated when you are permanently moving while really close to the monsters who drop the globes).

    There are quite a lot of other options though:
    - Sentry with shield (another 15% damreduce)
    - SS or Vault (Jailers are really annoying)
    - Caltrops with Jagged Spikes (270% damage, diszipline instead of hatred though)
    - Numbing traps when using caltrops (another 20% dam reduce; don't know if it works with sentrys shield so that enemies in the shielded area would get the 20% reduce instead of enemies who are hit by the sentry)
    - When using 2 hand you might skip archery and nightstalker and could get perfection and numbing traps for example
    - cold damage in line with cull the weak
    - If you get lots of LoH you might be able to skip SP going for another damage or defensive skill (Jagged Spikes + Chain of Torment for example)
    - Legacy Nats Set user might try out SS Poison Bomb.

    In my opinion only Chakram, Strafe and Vengeance would be really necessary (depending on you gear of course; take a fast 1 hand crossbow and you will need Archery and Nightstalker as well but might skip Vengeance). There are quite a lot of interesting skills to use that might benefit the build (and make it very hard to decide which ones to use).
  14. Kalixian

    Kalixian IncGamers Member

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    Playing around with this on the PTR right now. I run dual wield with big LoH, so this build fits in nicely with my gear. Playing in MP2 (act 1) and crushing.

    Strafe/Demolition
    Chakram/Shruken cloud
    Companion/Bat
    Vault/Tumble
    SP/Gloom
    Bola/Imminent Doom (for sh**s n giggles, would use Entangling/Shock Collar for real)

    Archery
    Vengeance
    Perfectionist

    I'm having some pretty major hatred issues though. I swapped out Vault for Prep/Punishment and vengeance for nightstalker, which works really nicely until you're out of both resources and then you're humped because you have no way to escape. Especially me with 0% run speed. So I switched back to Vault and at least that way I can escape and kite until I have hatred again, which isn't an ideal way to play but it works better.

    Strafe works quite well with nightstalker though (and my crit isn't all that high), so it's tempting to use it. Perhaps I could get by with nightstalker and vengeance and dump perfectionist, even though the latter is so good right now.


    My toon: http://us.battle.net/d3/en/profile/Kalixian-1213/hero/6279421
    (note that's my current live build, but same gear)
  15. Such Violent Storms

    Such Violent Storms IncGamers Member

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    @Poekel: Ah, I see. I know Chain of Torment has a .75 proc scalar, so it will heal with life/hit pretty well, I don't know if it can crit.

    @Kalixian: I think Nightstalker is pretty much required... If you're using 1H Crossbow, you may even be able to dump Archery (sounds crazy) for Nightstalker/Vengeance/Perfectionist. But I think dumping Perfectionist is okay for now ><

    I'd also try switching Vault's rune to Acrobatics (10 second cooldown) for no resource cost... it may help to get out of stuff like jailer easier, may not. Then, you could replace Bola shot with Punishment, so you have both Punishment and Vault.

    Strafe
    Shuriken
    Bat
    Vault
    Gloom
    Punishment

    Archery/Vengeance/Nightstalker or Perfectionist/Vengeance/Nightstalker

    If you get your run speed to 24% and keep a high crit chance, Nightstalker should pay off and make everything work, espcially with good life/hit!
  16. Kalixian

    Kalixian IncGamers Member

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    I'll try that later, but I really dislike playing without a hatred generator.

    My run speed isn't going anywhere. I have Ice Climbers which are just sick boots, but good ones with run speed cost ~infinite, sooooo yeah.
  17. Such Violent Storms

    Such Violent Storms IncGamers Member

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    If you use Punishment, combined with just natural regen + bat, a generator isn't really needed. Also for movement speed there's Inna's pants and Lacuni at +12% each; you won't get amazing ones but basic ones are pretty good.
  18. Such Violent Storms

    Such Violent Storms IncGamers Member

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    The patch is live, have fun blowing stuff up!
  19. tomaszk

    tomaszk IncGamers Member

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    I'll try a trapper first. Always wanted to do that but the skills sucked. Now is the time :).
  20. Dethklok

    Dethklok IncGamers Member

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    The proc on Demolition is clearly enough to maintain LOH tanking. The question is how to pay for all the Hatred. We could try to do it exclusively with hatred regen like that found on gear or Bat Companion, but that makes us want more attack speed for LOH while wanting less attack speed to conserve hatred.

    Instead we should maximize hatred gained per attack:
    1) Punishment/Nightstalker is clearly the engine, its the only way to gain hatred per Strafe hit.
    2) Crit chance should be maximized on gear and/or with 1h Archery.
    3) Vengeance increases max hatred by 20%, which means: increases hatred per attack by 20%. The health globe thing is just gravy.
    4) Perfectionist helps by reducing Punishment's cost; however, a 10% reduction is not better than getting 20% more crits by taking crit chance from 50% to 60%.

    These are the best 3 passives to keep the engine going. Just as with double tornado barb, a lot of defensive passives look good, but the ones that keep resource engines going are the better choices.

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