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1.0.5 PTR Patch Notes - Barbarian

Discussion in 'Barbarian' started by Sentarius, Sep 21, 2012. | Replies: 33 | Views: 24762

  1. Sentarius

    Sentarius IncGamers Member

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    EDIT: Read some Wizard nerf threads and it sounds like the Proc Coefficient affects "on crit" skills as well, making edits below.

    I'd like to start a conversation limited to this forum and hopefully to people who know something about Barbarians, since I'm seeing - around the internet - a lot of "omg barb nerf haha" and "delete Barb WW dead" and other foolishness.

    Link to Notes: http://diablo.incgamers.com/blog/co...-public-test-realm-and-ptr-v1-0-5-patch-notes

    Barb skill changes:

    First, let's have the crucial Sprint discussion. My understanding is that the "proc coefficient" is the %age applied to "on hit" abilities and nothing else. Is this accurate? So the (Run Like the Wind) change is a huge nerf to life on hit. There seems to be confusion around the internet as to whether it is also a nerf to fury gained from (Into the Fray). My understanding is that it shouldn't be, since (Into the Fray) procs based on the crits from other skills and the crit chance of (Run Like the Wind) isn't changing. Is that accurate?

    UPDATE: I read some Wizard nerf threads and it sounds like I'm wrong about this. They're saying when a skill says "when you crit chance to" the chance is based on the proc coefficient to the critting skill. This, by the way, explains something I've ALWAYS wondered, which is why these skills don't say how much of a chance! Answer is because it varies!

    So LoH and Fury regen are both nerfed. However, Fury loss is offset somewhat by reduced casting of Battle Rage and by cheaper WW. I have no idea if these cancel out, but if they do the actual nerf will be to (Thrive on Chaos). However, I think I will still use it. I starting WWing with a crit chance of 18%. (5% base, 10% Weapon Master, 3% Battle Rage.) Thrive worked fine for an individual elite fight, it was just a lot harder to keep up against white mobs (died too fast). My current crit chance is 45% and 40% of that is ... 18%. So I think geared Barbs can still perma-Wrath during fights, but it will be a lot harder to perma-Wrath for an entire act.

    As a WW Barb, clearly I need to get on the PTR myself and do some experimenting, but my plan is to see how my current setup survives and if it doesn't, to consider using the newly buffed (Blood Funnel) instead of (Hurricane), even though I have happily used (Hurricane) since nightmare difficulty.

    I'm also considering, given the nerf to the Enchantresses' Powered Armor, switching from Enchantress to Scoundrel. I think the 3% crit chance would be a bigger DPS boost than 3% IAS, and 5% armor is pretty negligible. Crazy? UPDATE: Given the change to the proc coefficient I am liking this idea even more. Desperately need more crits!

    One thing the above totally omits is the improvements to WW (damage last patch, cost this patch). Does this make WW a more important part of the WW build? If so, does that mean that really the build is just getting more expensive, since offhand weapon damage matters for WW?

    Changing the subject, I think the HotA buff is very cool. Since HotA costs 20 fury, it will always have at least 4% crit (down from the current flat 5%) but usually loads more....as much as 20% at 100 Fury or 24% at 120! Before I switched to WW I played a full Fury build with HotA to burst down elites, and I have to say it is tempting to go back.

    Those are the main changes I noticed, but they're also the only two builds I've every really played. Interested to hear everyone's thoughts on this and on any other changes.

    And if someone can definitively explain exactly what the proc coefficient on (Run Like the Wind) does, I will definitely edit this post to make it accurate.

    Thanks!
    Last edited: Sep 21, 2012
  2. powpowboom

    powpowboom IncGamers Member

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    Looks like HoTa build is the way to go...a 20% critical % increase on full fury is too good to pass up

    You had to have known that they were going to nerf WW builds. They are just too powerful. Looks like i switched over to a tank build just in a nick of time

    Sprint

    • Skill Rune – Run Like the Wind
      • Proc coefficient reduced from 0.2 to 0.08
  3. Sentarius

    Sentarius IncGamers Member

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    I started WWing in Nightmare difficulty before anyone knew anything about the Sprint build, so I am probably not going to change if I can avoid it.

    But yeah, if one can rattle off 5 HoTAs in a row while using WoTB (Insanity) at crit chances of 75%, 71%, 67%, 63%, and 59%...good lord the burst damage.
  4. powpowboom

    powpowboom IncGamers Member

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    well, i just thought of it somemore...

    because of the nerf to Sprint from .2 to .08...that's massive. LOH is going to be reduced to 40%...so 2000 loh is going to be 800 loh. The actual WW hits are unaffected but still...the tornados are going to be much less powerful. I think maintaining WotB is going to very challenging post 1.0.5
  5. powpowboom

    powpowboom IncGamers Member

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    another thing...mighty weapons are gonig to be important now for WW builds and fury generation

    If you are a WW barb, go and get one in your main hand before the prices get outrageous. you want mighty weapon with Life steal because life steal is based on damage dealt so it should not be affected by the proc nerf in Sprint
  6. liquid_mage

    liquid_mage IncGamers Member

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    Is LS affected the same way LoH is?

    Would a mighty weapon help keep up fury in 1.0.5 more then an axe? The ability to keep up WotB might help more then the damage you give up from Weapon Master with an Axe/Mace.
  7. powpowboom

    powpowboom IncGamers Member

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    LS is based on damage dealt and it isn't proc'ed so it should be unaffected. Its already 80% reduced for inferno but if you currently have 70k+ dps and about 7-8%, you should be ok.

    more and more people are going to be using mighty weapons for fury generation post 1.0.5
  8. JEB90

    JEB90 IncGamers Member

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    I can't imagine how the build will resemble anything close to it's current form. Changing that proc coefficient means we will see 40% of current damage, fury, and LOH. The main damage we do right now is from tornadoes. The "buff" to ww makes no difference there. When you add that in to the survivability nerf to LOH, it doesn't seem very likely we will be able to pull huge packs together anymore and survive--especially if we can't keep WotB up, and especially in the higher power levels. Combine that with the nerf to Impunity, and I think we will take a HUGE survivability hit. As for new gear, first, I'm not going spend another 50-100 million to buy new weapons that provide a half-assed solution to fury. Switching to mighty weapons is also another huge damage nerf that still wouldn't address the survivability factor.

    Six months ago, I could never imagine the Blizzard could chase me away from this game, but--unless I'm completely wrong about the mechanics I listed above--this patch will do it. I've spent too much time and IGG on a build that Blizzard told us they wouldn't nerf to change, even if there were another appealing build--which there isn't. There is no way I'm going back to clicking on everything to kill it. And I have no faith in Blizzard not to nerf the next popular build in any case. It seems this group of Blizzard developers and I have fundamentally different ideas about what makes a game fun.
  9. Insicor

    Insicor IncGamers Member

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    Nerfs to defensive skills won't make a difference due to overall lowering of mob damage. For example the nerf to Impunity by 30% means you lose 15% AR overall. Monster damage is getting dropped by 25% across the board, so you still have increased survivability.
  10. JEB90

    JEB90 IncGamers Member

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    That's in power level zero. If you want to play there, you are correct. Current inferno is supposed to be ~ power level 2-3. So, from level 2-10 our survivability is certainly nerfed.
  11. Dethklok

    Dethklok IncGamers Member

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    The proc rate applies to both Into the Fray and the mighty weapon version of Weapon Master. 10% of 15 fury is 1.5 fury, so axe/mace gives you 1.5 Fury per proc compared to a mighty weapon's 3 Fury per proc; it's a substantial difference but not a huge one. (They should probably buff the mighty weapon fury generation.)
    For Sprint tornados only: In 1.04, each tornado deals 20% weapon damage and 20% proc rate per tic, so you'd need about 155k DPS for 3% life leach to be equal to 950 life on hit -- life on hit was pretty much universally better. Cutting the proc rate to 40% its previous value still means you'd need 62k DPS before 3% life leach is better than 950 life on hit. This is definitely more doable and good advice for a segment of the population, but keep in mind that anything in the 50-75k DPS range wouldn't notice much of a difference either way.

    For Whirlwind, in both 1.04 and 1.05, you'd need about 34k DPS before 3% life steal equals 950 life on hit. Again, if you're reasonably close (30-40k DPS) you won't notice a difference.

    For the build overall, I'd say you want to stick with life on hit until at least 45k DPS, that there isn't much of a difference from 45-55k DPS, and that life leech starts becoming good past 55k.
    Changing the proc coefficient does not change the damage dealt; sprint torandos will still deal 20% weapon damage per tick. It is ITF fury generation and LOH that are effected.

    I think you're right that it will be harder to pull huge packs together and survive. It should, however, still be a viable build. I don't believe this is a "scorched earth" nerf, but instead a nerf that makes WW/sprint "just another" build as opposed to the primary one.
  12. liquid_mage

    liquid_mage IncGamers Member

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    Your tornado's will crit less often, so we will do less damage.


    This change bums me out. I think they could have done two things to adjust the build:
    1. Have tornados alternate weapon damage, this would have help balance out people taking advantage of stat sticks.
    2. Adjust the proc rate of tornados, but go from 0.2 to 0.14 or some such. 0.08 is crazy low.
    Last edited: Sep 21, 2012
  13. liquid_mage

    liquid_mage IncGamers Member

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    Sorry double post.
  14. EoB

    EoB IncGamers Member

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    I know this is a far fetched and far too hopeful wish, but it would be a great PR move if they stick it on the test server as a .08 drop, listen to "player feedback", then adjust it upwards to say .14 "due to the feedback they received from the community." This would of course be far too strategic for Blizz to actually plan out and pull off but man would they come out on top in the end.

    They end up nerfing the build slightly which makes some people happy, and make current barbs feel better by acting like they gave in to the feedback. Win/win for them and the community.

    But again, far too strategic and planned out for Blizz I think.
  15. BaronScarpia

    BaronScarpia IncGamers Member

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    I heard somewhere on official forums that the infinity WotB was hugely nerfed, since you need to regain fury to gain extra time. Since ww cost was reduced, you don't spend enough fury to regain fury and extend Wotb. If that's true, then it was a huge nerf.

    I won't join the public test due to time constraint, but I would like to share the build I used up to Belial:

    http://us.battle.net/d3/en/calculator/barbarian#bhPkRi!ZbY!ZYccYZ

    It kills using WW (on belial I switched WW for earthquake).

    I got 3 legendaries on the past week with low mf, 2 of them killing white mobs, using the build above. It is slower than double tornado (so is everything), but it was efficient to me. Maybe it can work with MP 0 on act 3, but I'm a little skeptical. Maybe you need to be over 40k damage...
  16. Such Violent Storms

    Such Violent Storms IncGamers Member

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    I really think HotA will become a contender. Almost a guaranteed crit per usage after building up some fury, with Into The Fray and a big 2H you should just smash the hell of things.
  17. galzohar

    galzohar IncGamers Member

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    If everyone keep playing sprint and not look at any other build then the change have failed. So I doubt we'll see a noticeable coefficient increase further into PTR. The goal of the change was to bring the build in line with other builds at the very least.

    Damage won't be changed as long as you can keep fury going and stay alive. The nerf prevents you from doing those 2 very well unless you have extremely high-end gear, and even then you still might want to consider other builds because even with top of the top gear you might run into fury problems that would hit the efficiency of this build pretty hard, even if they don't outright kill it.
  18. magicrectangle

    magicrectangle IncGamers Member

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    What? No.

    Proc coefficients have no effect on crit chance. Your crit chance is the same for all abilities (that can crit), regardless of their proc coefficients.
  19. liquid_mage

    liquid_mage IncGamers Member

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    Okay good to know, thanks for the correction.
  20. Sentarius

    Sentarius IncGamers Member

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    Finally got on last night and experimented a bit. Thoughts follow. All playing was on MP3.

    My char has (on the main server) 1500 LoH and farms Act III easily in WW/Sprint mode. DPS on weapons are about 1000 and 700, respectively. LoH is half from one weapon and half from jewelry.

    To experiment, I picked up on the cheap two weapons each with 3% LS, sockets, and about 950 DPS, sacrificing all other mods.

    My tornadoes hit for about 10,000 damage per tick, so quick tornado math: Currently a .20 sprint tornado gives me 300 life. On the PTR a .08 sprint tornado gives me 120 life. If I switched entirely to just 6% LS, which is 1.2% in Inferno, it would be 120 life.

    But I have another option, which is to keep my LoH jewelry, which alone is worth 60 life per tick on the PTR, giving me a total of about 180 per hit, which is closer to my current 300.

    I tried that first, and it was OK. I had to run more and couldn't stand in AoE effects, but I could kill elites and Ghom without dying.

    But the need for LoH on my jewelry has always been something dragging down my gear budget, so I tried swapping out the LoH stuff for just more damage, which made it possible for me (still for almost no gold, it was like 300k) to add about 10% to my damage, including 8% more crit.

    I found this even better. Bunch of points here:
    -More crit=more damage=more lifesteal!
    -More crit=more fury.
    -Above calculations discount WW itself. WW has a coefficient of .13 (let's call it .12) meaning that in my 1.0.4 setup my 40,000 damage WW ticks were giving me 180 life. With 6% (1.2%) LS they give 480 life. They don't cover the loss of LoH from Sprint alone, but they get close. And with crits of about 120,000 they do quite nicely.

    Also, the fact that my weapons are now about equal in DPS is nice for WW and for Bash, which I have always used a fair amount.

    Now, Fury generation is another issue. It's not hard to keep WW up due to the lowered cost, but it is harder to keep WotB up. Not impossible though - I kept it up for all of the Keep Depths Level 2, for example. As before, white mobs were my friends. It was still easy to keep my health globe full and my Fury and Wrath up on whites, but when I got down to 1-3 elite mobs at a time it was a lot harder. But it did help that the whites have more HP on MP3 than in 1.0.4.

    One of the most annoying changes is actually the fury generation nerf to warcry. If you're out of combat, the 20 fury *instantly* drops to 17, making it impossible to use Warcry to activate battle rage OR sprint. I used to use a quick warcray-sprint to get me to the next pack when dry, and this change definitely contributes to making it harder to keep Wrath up.

    In essence, with 450,000 gold invested in weapons and 300,000 in jewelry my mid-power Barb (50,000 damage buffed but without Wrath) is *almost* as effective in 1.0.5 MP3 as in 1.0.4. Same exact skills and playstyle. And this is WITHOUT lifesteal on a belt. As soon as I can find or afford a LS belt I expect full blown EZmode to return.

    And then there will be the higher MP settings to conquer.

    I know everyone has been saying that well geared Barbs will still be fine all along, but I don't consider myself that well geared. My most expensive item cost me 1.5 million. I have a lot of time in the game, but not a lot of super amazing gear. Moderately geared Barbs will be OK too.
    Last edited: Sep 25, 2012

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