Players vs. Monster Players (the solution to D3 PVP)

[Jackalhead]

Okay, so right off the bat, a lot of you won't like the sound of Players vs. Monster Players, but read everything I have to say before you provide input.

Left 4 Dead handled versus mode AMAZINGLY. After realizing the way L4D decided where to spawn boss infected and normal infected, I saw it was quite similar to the way monsters were spawned in Diablo II.

Now, this is where everything gets really complicated, yet interesting, so you're going to want to read on.

When joining an online match, you can choose to either jump into a game with empty player slots as your BattleNet character OR choose 'Monster Play' and join a game, no matter how many player characters are already in that game. When you join, it doesn't tell any of the current players playing that there will be human controlled monsters in the world -- they are oblivious to the fact you are even there.

Monster players can see messages that the normal player characters are sending to each other, to coordinate attacks, but the normal player characters can not see what the monster players are typing to each other -- they must remain COMPLETELY oblivious to the fact that monster players are in the game.

Now, you're probably wondering how the game decides which monster(s) you spawn as, right? It bases it off the level of your strongest normal BattleNet character. Using the level number, it randomly decides what to spawn you as and where to spawn you, based on the current level and location of player characters.

Let's say your most powerful normal BattleNet character is level 42. I don't even know what the level cap is, but that doesn't matter. This is all for demonstration. ;]

If the majority of the players in the game are fairly weak and still in the easier areas of the game world, the game will spawn you as a random assortment of monsters in the same area as one of the player characters, but the level of the monsters you control will all add up to your player character's level of 42. You will be able to control your monsters in a 'free-cam' RTS style. If you want to access their individual special abilities and spells, just individually select one of them. So you may be spawned as five level 5 fallen ones, two level 6 fallen shamans, and one level 5 zombie -- which all adds up to your player character's level of level 42. It's all random, based off the area the player characters are in and based off your character level.

So, let's keep in mind your most powerful normal character is at level 42.

Now pretend there is a strong player character in hell, while you are in monster mode, but there are also three weaker characters in the game in other parts of the world. There is a chance that the game will want to spawn you near the more powerful character, just as much as there is a chance it will spawn you near the weaker characters. If you happen to be spawned somewhere in hell, near the powerful character, the game will be more likely to spawn you as fewer units, yet of greater power. Maybe 2 level 16 balrogs and a level 10 death knight. Again, it's all random.

Finding the players and getting right to the action...

To be able to quickly hunt down the player characters and get right into the action, without wandering around too much. Certain areas of the border of your screen will glow either red, yellow, or green indicating how close the player characters are. For example, imagine you are spawned into the game world maybe 4 screens away from the nearest player character and they are in the direction of the bottom right hand corner of your screen. A two inch wide yellow tint will encompass the border of your screen, because they are not too far away (if they were it would be red) and you are not quite very close to them yet (if you were it would be green). So you automatically know, the quickest way to get to the player characters is to follow the bottom right hand corner of your screen.

But the player character doesn't just stand there. She moves upwards a screen or two as you get closer to her. This 2 inch tint would then move up the side of the border of the screen to tell you that is the quickest way to get to her. As you approach her, the side of the screen would turn green, until she was in your screen. At this point, the glowing would stop.

Keep in mind, there will be a 2 inch slightly tinted are on the border of your screen for every character that is in the game. The farther they are away from you, not only will it be red, but the tint will diminish to the point it is hardly noticeable. You will only see the tint if they are within a reasonable distance to pursue and attack.

Death and respawning...

Once all of your currently spawned minions are slain, the game will immediately re-spawn you near a new random character with a new random selected group of minions adding up to your main character's level. Not waiting, no delay. Right to the instant, explosive action!

With the click of a button, you can even force respawn, if you get bored controlling your current set of units or if you choose to do so because there are no more player characters near by. Upon clicking 'force respawn'...

A) IF there are no player characters within site of your current controlled units, they will all instantly be deleted from the game and you will automatically respawn with a new random set of minions near a new random player.
B) IF there ARE player characters within site of your current controlled units, it will surrender control of your minions to the AI and you will automatically respawn with a new random set of minions near a new random player.

However, there is a 1 minute cool-down timer on the 'force respawn' function, to prevent monster players from spamming the world with monsters.

So what's the point of Monster Play? How does it even benefit your main character?

Well, there are a number of ways. For one, with every successful hit you land on player characters you get a very small amount of XP added to your current most powerful character on BattleNet. If you happen to successfully KILL a player character, you get a lot more XP, based on how powerful that character was.

Additionally, if you kill a player character that is above level 10, the game will present you an option of receiving a copy of whatever their most powerful item is in their inventory for your own main character. You can always tell the game 'No', if you don't want it.

Not only is it a great alternative way to play Diablo III, when the normal game gets stale, but you'll actually be growing and enhancing your main character while you enjoy it!

What do you all think of this as a PvP alternative?

[akboy]

It sounds like it has potential, but so do a lot of ideas. Would we be willing to wait 6 extra months for this so Blizzard could build this mode and work out balancing issues? Something like this is more likely in an expansion.

I don't think fans of PvP wouldn't be content with just hitting a player with their monsters. They want a decent chance to kill players, which would mean balancing the monsters so this is possible. If this mode becomes popular, you would be running into a lot of monster players. It might slow down the pace of the game if so many mobs are balanced so they stand a decent chance to kill you.

[Jackalhead]

You have a valid point with it slowing down gameplay, if the monster players are too powerful. I suggest there are rewards for every hit you land on a player -- and if you happen to kill one, then you get REALLY good rewards. So the monsters the player controls are just as weak or strong as the NPC controlled versions of those monsters. Where the monster player would have strength is in numbers of units. In order to obtain a larger number of monsters to use in Monster Play, players would be encouraged to level up their main player character. This way the normal game would compliment Monster Play and with the rewards reaped in monster play for your normal character, Monster Play would compliment the normal game.

Perhaps this would be better as an additional way to play the game aside from normal PVP? This way we could keep the traditional PvP fans happy, while adding a completely new way to play the game, only for those who wish to use it.

[nikkisexx]

The fun part in diablo pvp is the fact that can use the character YOU customised and the items YOU worked hard to obtain and duke it out against other players. I dont think many players will fancy being a fallen shaman

[Grug]

^^^ Completely Agree.

The reason it works in a game like Left 4 Dead is because L4D is designed to be competitive. IE you have a high chance of dying already. Diablo is an RPG, where you're not supposed to die a lot. And again, no one wants to play as a monster that will get killed in 3 seconds. In Left 4 Dead, the Boomers, Hunters, and Smokers can all run around the environment and take the players by surprise. A monster in Diablo 3 can... walk towards the players and use One attack.

Then there are the balance problems. If you luck out and get to play a boss monster, what's to keep you from just standing still and letting the players kill you and get the loot for free. And before you say it, no, having the game only give loot if you fight back will not solve the problem, because then Griefers could stay still and deny the players loot. Then there's the fact that the Players pick the pace of the game, leaving the monsters to wait in the dungeon while the heroes are in town shopping.

If Diablo 3 let's you play as a monster, I will have officially lost all faith in Blizzard.

[Jackalhead]

Grug - Yes, controlling ONE weak monster would suck. But if you get your normal character to high enough levels, you would be spawned as an entire mob of monsters. So you can set up an ambush in the trees or dungeons. You can have your 'tank' like monsters rush in towards the player while keeping your archers and spell casters at a distance. Some spell casting monsters can even heal / revive other monsters. So it's all about strategy to see how many hits you can land on the player, before your entire mob is crushed, because your normal characters gets XP and rewards for the damage you inflict with your monsters -- even if you don't successfully kill the player. If you do, the rewards are amazing. Also, you can use to a ranged monster to run backwards through a host of AI controlled monsters, while firing projectiles at the players to get even more XP.

It's not mindless pathetic gameplay like you would expect it to be, based on the concept. It requires stratetgy, planning and thinking to do well at it.

If you don't like the idea, you never even have to touch this style of gameplay and can stick to your normal PvP with hero characters. That's the great part!

Also, even if you don't touch Monster Play, you will still benefit from it as a normal player, because it will make the occasional monster you encounter seem like it has REALLY good AI that will challenge you for once. After all, there is no way to tell an AI controlled monster from a player controlled monster, just by looking at them. You'll notice monsters actually using strategy to fight your character, rather than just rushing in to their deaths -- that gets boring after a while.

[nikkisexx]

At first I thought it was a joke topic. But my conclusion is NO. Left 4 dead, yes. D3 NO.

[Grug]

Yeah, it works in Left 4 Dead because you actually might win. For Diablo 3, the chance will be much, much smaller. Your whole squad will get blasted to bits time and time again. Pretty unsatisfying.

[Jackalhead]

Not really. In left 4 dead, as an infected you only stand a chance if you coordinate an attack with your team mates. One lone hunter or smoker or boomer has NO chance of taking on the survivors alone. In Monster Play, if you had three other monster players use their own mobs to rush the player at the same time you did, through strategy, you would stand a chance for sure.

[Teleportation]

Originally Posted by Jackalhead

Not really. In left 4 dead, as an infected you only stand a chance if you coordinate an attack with your team mates. One lone hunter or smoker or boomer has NO chance of taking on the survivors alone. In Monster Play, if you had three other monster players use their own mobs to rush the player at the same time you did, through strategy, you would stand a chance for sure.

Hardly.

Think D2, would you die of 10 fallens if they had super AI? No, you would orb them to death the instant they entered your screen.

The thing with Diablo is that the monsters ARE weak. Not saying you will never die to monsters, but your k:d ratio WILL be ridiculous, 1000:1 perhaps.