Now that the game seems less broken will Hardcore still be a challenge?

[Kiroptus]

I know everyone wants hardcore to be back but doesnt Diablo3 sound very hardcore unfriendly (in terms of challenge) so far?

I mean... ok, potions were pretty much removed which is good but on the other hand Jay Wilson already expressed that he wants to make the game flow normally and for that, there wont be one-hit-kill monsters which was where the challenge of hardcore was, to know when and how to face that nasty MSLEFE monster.

Plus there are skills that seem to go on the opposite way from hardcore, like the Barbarian Ressurection skill. If that goes live we can expect a lot of barbarians in HC mode.

I agree with all the changes that Jay bought but maybe we liked hardcore for the challenge of playing a game with a lot of broken mechanics like Diablo II. Now that everything seems more sane and balanced, the game does seem more attractive to me but somehow hardcore is not that hardcore anymore.

People have been suggestion that 10-20 sec timer to logout, and really its the only way to bring some extra difficulty to HC mode because now with the action and flowing normally and with that sudden and scary (and I might add, broken) one-hit-kill monsters not being there, its very easy to hit esc or alt-f4 and get out of the fray or doing that when your barbarian is about to die (again) after being ressurected.

[TheDarkSide]

I dont care for that 20 - 30 second log off thingy people are talking about really . When I need to get out of the game I want to get out now and not have to wait . Having two young kids , I tend to have to go to town quite often so Im interested to see what happens with this . Some people will argue that I dont need to be gaming when I should be watching the kids anyways but whatever .

I imagine that the changes in D3 will be a lot like they were going from D1 to D2 and will take a while to get used to . Once people have played a bit and figured it out Im betting it will be an enjoyable gaming experience . I dont see a whole lot changing with going from SC to HC mode really .

I dont know about you but that big monster biting off the Barbarians head seemed pretty hardcore to me . And with the lack of potions to cure you everytime you get hit Im thinking Hardcore might be even more Hardcore now than it was in D2 ...

[Kiroptus]

That was for the show purposes, we dont know how dangerous the siegebreaker was afterall, I am not talking "hardcore" in terms of gory, that was just a finisher move of the boss. On the other hand, Leoric on the Diablo 3 demo that few got to play was quite easy and delt little damage from what people said.

The thing is that, its very easy to press esc and quit, and the only reason why I ever got killed in HC was when I was on a situation that I died so quickly that I couldnt leave the game. Now that every damage seems more fair and steamlined and no more one-hit-kills it seems quite easy to just exit the game and be back in a sec. It doesnt matter if you have no potions or no health globes are near, just exit the game.

[zebu]

On HC or not, I like one-hit-kill monsters...
why our "heros" have to be so strong?
I mean, I can die on a car crash but there's no monster stronger enough to kill me by hitting my head ?

I agree with that time to logoff, but 20 seconds seems to be eternity. 5 sec is enough ...

[Knight_Wolf]

Originally Posted by Kiroptus

I mean... ok, potions were pretty much removed which is good but on the other hand Jay Wilson already expressed that he wants to make the game flow normally and for that, there wont be one-hit-kill monsters which was where the challenge of hardcore was, to know when and how to face that nasty MSLEFE monster.

One hit kill monsters are frustration not a challenge, there is a hair-thin difference between making something challenging and making it frustrating, and it is definitely on the frustration side for many people so it has to go.

And removal of potions spamming more than makes up for the challenge value, actually it is exactly how you make it challenging not frustrating.

Originally Posted by Kiroptus

Plus there are skills that seem to go on the opposite way from hardcore, like the Barbarian Ressurection skill. If that goes live we can expect a lot of barbarians in HC mode.

If you think about hard enough you will figure out it is pretty much an extra temp boost to the Barbarian HP, if you are already surrounded by a mob and get killed using a barbarian you will get few extra HP but they won't do you any good and you will die shortly after if you are playing bad.

Originally Posted by Kiroptus

I agree with all the changes that Jay bought but maybe we liked hardcore for the challenge of playing a game with a lot of broken mechanics like Diablo II. Now that everything seems more sane and balanced, the game does seem more attractive to me but somehow hardcore is not that hardcore anymore.

Actually the good thing is that it will make hardcore more accessible and will invite more people to play it which is a good thing really, with more people around PvP and duels in HC will be adrenaline pumping.

Originally Posted by Kiroptus

People have been suggestion that 10-20 sec timer to logout, and really its the only way to bring some extra difficulty to HC mode because now with the action and flowing normally and with that sudden and scary (and I might add, broken) one-hit-kill monsters not being there, its very easy to hit esc or alt-f4 and get out of the fray or doing that when your barbarian is about to die (again) after being ressurected.

The timer could be viable but it isn't streamlined enough, maybe a checkpoints system will work better, when you quit in the middle of a fight ( trying to cheaply escape death ) you lose all the things ( progress, money, items .. etc etc ) you did since the last time you used/touched a check point ( the ones you get resurrected at in Softcore ), that's assuming these check points are the fixed portals you use to get back to town.

That feels more fair and streamlined to me.

[Kiroptus]

Some bosses might have some lethal move but I believe there will be some cast-animation warning to give you time to react.

Still, all of our fears from HC came from broken monsters, like the bugged zombies that could one-hit-kill your high-hp barb in hell, the MSLE monsters, the bugged FE monsters or the cheap burning souls. Those were our bane but they were also the result of broken mechanics and now that Diablo 3 seem to be aiming for more refinement, maybe what we think of HC wont be as much of prestige as it once was in D2.

When I saw a high lv HC I would think "man, that guy was good" now in D3 will it be "ah, a high lv HC, he surely was quick to press "save and quit" a lot of time". Because right now from what I gather there certainly is more danger in Diablo 3 but not that scary black-robe-wearing death carrying a scythe that could suddenly chop your head off. If you are on that situation isnt it easily to just save and quit? Plus there is the second chance skill from the barb, we can expect a lot of HC barbarians if the skill goes live because once that thing triggers, its the right moment to "Save and Quit".

[Kiroptus]

Originally Posted by Knight_Wolf

One hit kill monsters are frustration not a challenge, there is a hair-thin difference between making something challenging and making it frustrating, and it is definitely on the frustration side for many people so it has to go.

I agree with that and I am glad that they are gone.

And removal of potions spamming more than makes up for the challenge value, actually it is exactly how you make it challenging not frustrating.

I agree too. Potion spamming was awful. Still its easy to just save and quit if things get ugly and no health globes are nearby or are hard to access.

If you think about hard enough you will figure out it is pretty much an extra temp boost to the Barbarian HP, if you are already surrounded by a mob and get killed using a barbarian you will get few extra HP but they won't do you any good and you will die shortly after if you are playing skill is low.

But thats more than enough time to just quit. It takes less then a second if you are quick.

Actually the good thing is that it will make hardcore more accessible and will invite more people to play it which is a good thing really, with more people around PvP and duels in HC will be adrenaline pumping.

Hmm... we dont know much about PVP, maybe the separated PVP system wont even allow players to kill themselves, more like a "friendly duel with both players consesus" that drops players to 1 hp, just like WoW. I just dont believe that a player will be able to take down someone's character for good. Unless there is a option to do so, but I guess the default mode will be "just drop HP to 1 and the other player wins the duel".

The timer could be viable but it isn't streamlined enough, maybe a checkpoints system will work better, when you quit in the middle of a fight ( trying to cheaply escape death ) you lose all the things ( progress, money, items .. etc etc ) you did since the last time you used/touched a check point ( the ones you get resurrected at in Softcore ), that's assuming these check points are the fixed portals you use to get back to town.

That feels more fair and streamlined to me.

Nah that can create a lot more of problems imo, losing all gold and item gathered so far? What if people need to get out quick and the checkpoint is hard to get and to make things worse you just found an amazing item. Certainly wont please a lot of people that supports Diablo as a more casual game.

[Rashiminos]

Originally Posted by Kiroptus

Still, all of our fears from HC came from broken monsters, like the bugged zombies that could one-hit-kill your high-hp barb in hell, the MSLE monsters, the bugged FE monsters or the cheap burning souls. Those were our bane but they were also the result of broken mechanics and now that Diablo 3 seem to be aiming for more refinement, maybe what we think of HC wont be as much of prestige as it once was in D2.

Only the MSLE monsters and burning souls weren't broken.

[jakotaco]

Originally Posted by Rashiminos

Only the MSLE monsters and burning souls weren't broken.

Wasn't it something with the souls using some manaburn table with incorrect damage or something like that?

[AkumaSlayer]

Originally Posted by Knight_Wolf

The timer could be viable but it isn't streamlined enough, maybe a checkpoints system will work better, when you quit in the middle of a fight ( trying to cheaply escape death ) you lose all the things ( progress, money, items .. etc etc ) you did since the last time you used/touched a check point ( the ones you get resurrected at in Softcore ), that's assuming these check points are the fixed portals you use to get back to town.

That feels more fair and streamlined to me.

Hell no! What if you found an awesome unique and then after a few minutes you're near the checkpoint and your internet connection cuts off, or your computer freezes? That's frustrating.

But the timer isn't the best solution either.

I think hardcore mode will still be challenging, in any case. All it takes is a moment of carelessness, or a false sense of security and you could find yourself surrounded, and then dead before you think to ALT F4 out of the game.