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Go Back   Diablo 3 & Diablo 2 Forums > Diablo 3 Community Forums > Diablo 3 Items
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Diablo 3 Items Discuss the items that are in and should be in Diablo 3.

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Old 19-09-2008, 09:39   #1
qOcOp
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2 Hand weps, 1 hand, dual wield

Make it so 2 handers and dual wielding arent useless. everyone in d2 had sword and shield. thx.
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Old 19-09-2008, 15:00   #2
stephan
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Re: 2 Hand weps, 1 hand, dual wield

Eh no. Not everyone in D2 has a sword and a shield. Frenzy barbs are obviously dual wielding, Whirlers are usually 2 handed or dual wielding (e.g. BvCs) and many (PvP) sins dual wield. Zerkers, Concentrators and Wereform druids are often 2 handed as well. Spears Amazons are the only potential 2 handed build that isn't really played.

This only really leaves Paladins, but they have Holy Shield and Smite which puts a rather large advantage on having a shield.

Your premise is simply wrong.
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Old 19-09-2008, 17:58   #3
Dimmu
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Re: 2 Hand weps, 1 hand, dual wield

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Originally Posted by stephan View Post
Eh no. Not everyone in D2 has a sword and a shield. Frenzy barbs are obviously dual wielding, Whirlers are usually 2 handed or dual wielding (e.g. BvCs) and many (PvP) sins dual wield. Zerkers, Concentrators and Wereform druids are often 2 handed as well. Spears Amazons are the only potential 2 handed build that isn't really played.

This only really leaves Paladins, but they have Holy Shield and Smite which puts a rather large advantage on having a shield.

Your premise is simply wrong.
Zerkers, Conc barbs, and werewolves should never use 2 handed weapons. The bonus of having a shield far outweighs any advantage of 2 handed weapons. Only exception being an eth zodded ribcracker for a wolfer, but shield is still preferred in most cases. Dual wielding is great, but only 2 chars can use it (barb, assassin).
There's an easy solution to making 2-handed weapons useful, though. Just enable blocking for them and buff up their damage dealing potential. Maybe even add some 2-handed only skills.
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Old 19-09-2008, 22:04   #4
Brother Laz
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Re: 2 Hand weps, 1 hand, dual wield

The problem isn't 2h weapons (though their modifiers usually sucked as well). The problem is 75% shield block = x4 survival.

Nerf block, problem fixed.
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Old 19-09-2008, 22:50   #5
stephan
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Re: 2 Hand weps, 1 hand, dual wield

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Originally Posted by Dimmu View Post
Zerkers, Conc barbs, and werewolves should never use 2 handed weapons.
This is simply plain wrong. Barbs and Wolves really don't need shields. With Zerk having block is even detrimental. A shaelled upped ribcracker beats any 1 hander for a PvM furywolf.
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Old 19-09-2008, 23:19   #6
Dimmu
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Re: 2 Hand weps, 1 hand, dual wield

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Originally Posted by stephan View Post
This is simply plain wrong. Barbs and Wolves really don't need shields. With Zerk having block is even detrimental. A shaelled upped ribcracker beats any 1 hander for a PvM furywolf.
LoL what D2 are you playing? I don't want to turn to arguing, unless maybe it's via PM, but on a pure Zerker, you absolutely NEED a shield and max block. Otherwise, when you're in the middle of combat (which a barb always will be), you're totally defenseless to any and all melee attacks being that your def is reduced to nada. There aren't many pure zerkers out there, but the ones that are would be employing suicide by fighting anything without a shield. Conc barbs are usually only built for melee duels.....i.e. shield=MUST.
And yes, a few wolfers out there use a ribcracker (usually eth zodded by the way) but it's much more effective to go either botdz/ss or griefz/ss, ribcrackers are just stylish. 75% block is way>a little extra damage. Not to mention the kind of other bonuses you get from shields. (35 dr anyone?)

But anyway, they could either nerf block all together like the above poster said, or enable some blocking potential for 2-handed weapons. Personally, I'd find more sense in being able to block with a gigantic sword than a 1 ft. diameter buckler.
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Old 20-09-2008, 09:45   #7
stephan
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Re: 2 Hand weps, 1 hand, dual wield

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Originally Posted by Dimmu View Post
LoL what D2 are you playing? I don't want to turn to arguing, unless maybe it's via PM, but on a pure Zerker, you absolutely NEED a shield and max block. Otherwise, when you're in the middle of combat (which a barb always will be), you're totally defenseless to any and all melee attacks being that your def is reduced to nada.
And what do you thinks happens when you combine a slow interruptible attack with 0 defense and max block? How many hits do you actually plan to land? Zerkers use warcries to be safe, not block.

Quote:
There aren't many pure zerkers out there, but the ones that are would be employing suicide by fighting anything without a shield.
Which means you have never played a zerker or don't know how to play one.

Quote:
Conc barbs are usually only built for melee duels.....i.e. shield=MUST.
Conc barbs duel? That's quite a rare sight.

Quote:
And yes, a few wolfers out there use a ribcracker (usually eth zodded by the way) but it's much more effective to go either botdz/ss or griefz/ss, ribcrackers are just stylish.
No, for PvM an upped Shaeled Ribcracker is better than Botd and Grief. You simply don't *need* block. 50% CB beats anything you can get from a Shield.
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Old 22-09-2008, 08:07   #8
Akse
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Re: 2 Hand weps, 1 hand, dual wield

Quote:
LoL what D2 are you playing? I don't want to turn to arguing, unless maybe it's via PM, but on a pure Zerker, you absolutely NEED a shield and max block
Well actually I read from HC or barb forums that you can build a zerker with stacked some Integer physical damage reduce. When around 100 pdr and a few %DR items you get close to 0 damage when you have a merc wielding reaver so the monsters hit you with decrepify.

This way you don't have to think about block or hit recovery since all the hits you take are so low that you never go to hit rec. Almost all the normal hits won't do any damage to you and only thing that does are some Amped, aura strong bosses or such. Sounds pretty killer zerker for me.
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Old 15-10-2008, 04:00   #9
Cast_Raider
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Re: 2 Hand weps, 1 hand, dual wield

Part of the problem is items. Grief is so ridiculously good, and deals roughly the same damage no matter what you put it in. So why not put it in a 1-hander?

Plus there's another issue: a shield is one of the best places to get elemental resistance. Depending on which character/build you're using, you may not be giving up much of anything.

Aside from that...yeah, blocking 75% is nice and maybe excessive. Hey, I have an idea. Maybe wearing a big blocking % shield should reduce your damage output by a proportionate amount.

Think about it. A whopping big tower shield should do more than slow down walk/run speed and stamina. It should reduce your 1-hander's damage. A big shield like that would be clumsy and awkward, you'd be tired and swinging slower, reacting slower, and twisting your torso around to swing would be slower.

Either that, or give blocking/resistance on some 2-handers. Or a significant damage bonus. At any rate, the barbarian should be completely unable to equip shields. It just isn't right. A big 2-hander or dual wield is the only appropriate thing. I want to hear that barb voice say "You've got to be kidding me" or some such thing when you try it.
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Old 16-10-2008, 03:08   #10
fatalend
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Re: 2 Hand weps, 1 hand, dual wield

The insane damages of all of the weapons no matter what type was the problem. The fact that you could kill ridiculously fast even when using a shield with 75% block was the issue.
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