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(the title can also read: witchdoctors if necro is gone)
All I can say is that when I play other games, like age of conan (boring void) or WoW (beautiful until 60th) there is this tendency for class specific.
In D2, I had 3-4 necro's that did not use casting damage and instead were melee. Earlier before major patches, I had a bowmancer dood. Then a CBlow Bowmancer. THen more patches then just an axe based necro (messer's reaver) . He had a huge golem, nice curses, and killed hell baal in 43 seconds solo. That was on the clock 43 seconds. First try.
Most of rpgs are just that, playing someone elses role. NO openended character design. Oh sure, you see in WoW fighters using bows/guns, but they suck at it compared to "hunters"
Then there was my mage. I had a melee girl, she was ok, not as fun as I hoped, but she worked. Then I had a bow elemental sorc-chick. She was quite strong. Hell in the later patches was a bit difficult for her to get around but she got far in it.
I have also had a druid that used Kuko's and lots of maxed pets. That and the axe/golem necro were my favorite characters! EVER!
I am an expert at seeing trends. It is my business and the way my mind is set up. I figure out stuff that others think is a secret. What they are possibly thinking, how they will react, etc. I am not always right but I rely on probability to guess the most likely outcome.
So, with that I can say that the PATCHES that made melee and ranged Necro's and Sorc's and Druids start to suck happened in succession. It is obvious that the patch team was very year 2000+ and kiddie like. They made the classes more pigeon-holed. A necro was OVERPOWERED if they did casting necro stuff. A sorc was SUPER strong if she did only pure cast cast cast stuff. A druid could have pets, but had issues if they didnt shapeshift. All of this was due to the "designers" (I laugh using that word) making the game more class specific and therefore more retarded.
I see the witchdoctor as kiddie, and more retarded. I did notice he had a dagger on him. Poison dagger? I guess? It should be noted that in latest patches of a few years that Necro's poison dagger was trumped by poison explosion which was trumped by poison misty crap. It wasnt like that ever. The harder to land skills did more damage than the easier spam skills. I had a poison dagger necro that was level 95 back when level 95 was insanity. He had a sick iron golem, some decent curses, and stacked poison sc's that were all legit and all kinda immense. His poison gear would kill anyone in a few seconds. Yes, I pvp'd with him vs bow girls and barbs and won 1 out of 2 vs people. No teleport either.
then he was nerfed. He still could kill, but it was nerfed a lot. enigma wearing morons and generic builds were the only ones that could kill effectively after patch after patch. Tendency. That is just the tendency, the sign of the times.
So that is why wd exists. the lack of creativity in builds causes for designers to try and force a character to look creatively built. What makes creativity is full latitude for users who are mature and have played for decades to make their own choices. yes, those choices should be more difficult, but they should also work if pushed to the Nth degree.
I have been playing for years, stopped playind d2 now for about 2 years. My clan is the oldest in the game that I ever found, going back to the first month of diablo 1. I have tried a lot of builds and they worked until the kiddie era of mmorpg's started to come into play, which is about 5 years now.
Re: If Necros can't melee or ranged, game will suck
Jeez. I hated that movie with a strong passion (refused to watch but mere seconds of it) and my least favorite character in Street fighter was that guy!
looks like a winning combo! I wonder if he is going to sing disney tunes with a bad voice as a bonus?
And i notice you say.... "There's no reason the witch doctor shouldn't be able to melee or use ranged weapons."
ahhhhh.... no reason in a smart person's mind .... we arent dealing with those types anymore friend!
Re: If Necros can't melee or ranged, game will suck
ok, so now we know your life story. I dont mean to be rude, but what was the point of this post. you told us what you like, and what you dont like, the made assumptions on something you havent tried. are you just looking for people to agree or are you looking for feed back.
also, who's to say your idea of fun is the same as everyone else's. i dont have anything against out of the box ideas, but i enjoy playing a character that does one thing really well. does that mean im "Kiddy" or less mature? Back in the 40's and 50's if you wore jeans, that meant you wear of a lower social class, but peoples perception evolved, and now they are the most popular type of clothing in the world. if people are moving towards "kiddy" focused classes, whats the problem with that? no ones saying you have to play a game you dont like.
Re: If Necros can't melee or ranged, game will suck
I agree with the OP as well. Some people say hell is too easy, but only for the overpowered, obvious, direct power builds that conform precisely to what the developers decided was appropriate. They made sure Hell was doable with the cookie cutter power builds and called it a day.
They should have brought back the direct power builds back in line with the others. EVERY skill that has 20 ranks in it should be able to be the core basis of a build. I remember FONDLY back in the day when, while it was a challenge, you could make Hell-capable Blaze/Thunderstorm Sorceresses. It wasnt easy but you could. You could make Bone Wall + Iron Maiden necros. You could make all-curse necros with IM and Attract.
Like many I have been going back to Diablo 2 to play to whet my appetite while I wait on the new game. I'm re-living the sadness a bit, while still having fun, because I'm remembering now that only certain builds can make it.
I'm hoping the devs now show more wisdom in allowing odd skill combos to survive through the hardest difficulties, IF you commit to them and play with intelligence. I'm hoping to heck that it wont be all *whirl* *whirl* *whirl* and *zeal* *zeal* *zeal* and *zap* *zap* *zap*. I'm hoping odd builds like a Daggerzon or the equivalent, or a melee Witchdoctor, etc, remain possible throughout hell IF you are skilled and commit whole-heartedly to the build.
I'm hoping all those bizarre but effective (pre synergy days) builds and equipment/skill interactions were intentional and not just a miraculous oversight that happened to work until the synergy days and hell nerf days sent them the way of the Dodo.
Re: If Necros can't melee or ranged, game will suck
Quote:
Originally Posted by smartdot
also, who's to say your idea of fun is the same as everyone else's. i dont have anything against out of the box ideas, but i enjoy playing a character that does one thing really well.
He is saying that they need to design it so that the obvious "Hulk Smash" type of Barbarian is viable if you want to do one thing; but a "Leaping ONLY to Kill My Foes" Barbarian who doesnt use weapon but commits to being a stomper should be totally viable. Especially if you can put 20 points in Leap/Stomp attacks, there is NO REASON that shouldnt be as viable as someone who puts 20 points in Whirlwind. A Barbarian who figures out ways to use Bows in conjunction with some unknown power might be possible.
He is saying that YOUR build and HIS build idea should both fit in the game. He isnt saying that Barbarians swinging a sword should suck. He is saying the game needs to support out of the box ideas too. Look at Blaze on the D2 Sorceress tree. The only thing that prevented that skill from remaining Hell Viable when they nerfed everything and added synergies is either that the developers didnt want to, or didnt think about, making sure the damage remained adequate for Hell.
Re: If Necros can't melee or ranged, game will suck
Quote:
Originally Posted by Animation
EVERY skill that has 20 ranks in it should be able to be the core basis of a build.
There's no reason to suspect this won't be true given the already obvious fact that every skill won't have 20 ranks as it did in D2.
Still, when it gets right down to it, if you prefer a specific playstyle and a specific class but the class you prefer can't play the way you like to play then perhaps you should roll a class you enjoy playing. The game designers are, after all, designing a role playing game. Designing classes with a specific playstyle archtype isn't wrong, it's actually the definition of a class.
Poor design enters in when classes are given skills that do not match their archtype. It was poor design to give necros poison dagger or sorcs enchant as anything other than party buffs in the first place. Synergies were also poor design and were very build limiting when they were implemented in D2. Given the information we currently have synergies are out too. I'm hoping as much as anyone that every skill each class is assigned to it has a use and none of it is crappy filler or one point wonders but that is completely different from the argument that you should be able to beat the game with a class while playing it as if it were a totally different class.
Re: If Necros can't melee or ranged, game will suck
i agree with the above poster. Like i said before, i have nothing against out of the box ideas, but a class is designed a certain way for a reason. If every class can fill all the roles, whats the point - put a blindfold on and pick one. also, if you can just put points any where nilly-willy, then what does that say about the difficulty level. I hear people complaining about how they think the game will be too easy, then other people saying the want every skill to be uber. There should be rewards for players who play their role and make intelligent skill choices.
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