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Do allegedly bugged monsters improve on HC, or detract from it?
Things like tomb vipers, nm fele, old msle.
How about loading screen deaths from Durry back in the day?
Yeah they're buggy, and if coded correctly likely wouldn't be nearly as threating, but does that mean they're a bad thing? You can still build/play correctly to avoid dying to them, and without them what would there be left to worry about?
Do you want to see threats like these in D3?
Preferably without the buggyness, but still with the same danger level.
Games aren't fun when you aren't in control. See every gripe in wow about fear and stuns and CC. If you don't have control the game ceases to be fun.
In HC, that effect is multiplied many times. If you aren't in control of whether your character lives or dies, it's a bad thing.
Furthermore, let's take the example of Tomb Vipers. Enemies like this detract from the game experience. Why? Because for most people, it becomes insane to even approach nihilthak (even more insane than it was before tomb vipers). So essentially you are cutting a lot of the game out just so players can control if they live or die.
So, I think these things are bad and generally detract from the game. Yes there should be dangerous enemies, but things that can kill you virtually unaware that you can do nothing to protect against aren't fun and don't add to the game in SC or HC.
I totally agree with their decision to not fix Tomb Vipers. It makes running Nihlathak that much more of a challenge. All you need to do to circumvent it by getting pdr, and really, if you can't get pdr, you shouldn't be running Nihl. End of story.
What I don't agree with is the Nightmare FE bug, because it's utterly ridiculous. You can have 75 FR, 4k life, and still die to NM council.
no to the loading screen deaths. thats a technology issue and has no roleplaying element.
Agreed there.
I was thinking something more like if durry's charge did enough damage to instantly kill anyone below gear level x when they enter, just without the loading screen.
Eg a level 12 with like 6 rubies in their gear, and reasonable stam/level could expect to live through it, a level 24 in gear a level 24 would likely find questing could expect to live through it, but a level 18 in gear a level 18 could expect to find questing could expect to die instantly and with no chance.
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let's take the example of Tomb Vipers. Enemies like this detract from the game experience. Why? Because for most people, it becomes insane to even approach nihilthak (even more insane than it was before tomb vipers). So essentially you are cutting a lot of the game out just so players can control if they live or die.
The thing with Tomb Vipers is that they're quite tame so long as you have the knowledge about how they're bugged. If the way they did damage was more widely known, they wouldn't scare so many people away, it just happens that it's not at all intuitive that their clouds work as they do.
Say instead of their poison clouds being buggy, they just were set to a very high value over a short period of time... people without PR would be toast, but people with 75% would be sitting pretty, do you still think nihl runs would be intimidating?
Another example, conviction gloams.
I'm aware gloam damage is supposedly bugged higher than it should be, but it's not THAT high, it's still at a point where it could have conceivably been set there. But throw in conviction, make a lovely double or triple boss pack spawn, and it's instadeeds for anyone who isn't built with some stacked LR or absorb or both.
People are afraid of gloams because they are a very dangerous monster, but despite being almost as dangerous as tomb vipers, they don't really slow down baal runs, because negating their damage is intuitive.
Also - I would argue you are in control of your character.
You are in control of building it in such away as to avoid being taken out of control.
Do allegedly bugged monsters improve on HC, or detract from it?
Things like tomb vipers, nm fele, old msle.
How about loading screen deaths from Durry back in the day?
Yeah they're buggy, and if coded correctly likely wouldn't be nearly as threating, but does that mean they're a bad thing? You can still build/play correctly to avoid dying to them, and without them what would there be left to worry about?
Do you want to see threats like these in D3?
Preferably without the buggyness, but still with the same danger level.
I liked MSLE monsters because of the excitment and difficulty it brought to the table. You had to double-check every enchanted monster before whailing on them, or risk losing your character in an instant.
It'd be cool if Blizzard incorporated extremely rare, but powerful monsters in Diablo III like the old MSLEs, to keep Hardcore players on their toes.
Also - I would argue you are in control of your character.
You are in control of building it in such away as to avoid being taken out of control.
Not really. a pack of extra strong fe le gloams with a convic boss near you can have you dead before you even see the mobs that will have killed you.
Sorry, but mobs killing you when you cant even see them isn't you being in control.
Same thing can happen with FELE mobs, or at least it could with the last patch but you didn't include them with your list of deadly mobs.
You can build your character in such a way that you can avoid dying in some situations situations, but you cant avoid having that control taken away from you.
Furthermore, requiring some gear to do parts of the game is really poor design, regardless of whether it's HC or SC. Why? Because again it is taking the control away from the player. You are no longer free to gear your character how you want, because now you're required to either use one of the two lit absorb items, or put sol in a bunch of sockets, or whatever the case may be.
See, there's a difference between optimizing for a situation, and having a situation that requires a certain gear set. And in the case of things like old MSLE's, ESFE's, Tomb Vipers etc. It isn't a matter of OPTIMIZING to kill them, it's a matter of if you're geared wrong (and generally in a counterintuitive way) you're dead.
It's simply poor design, and aside from that it really punishes people for being first to try something.
I think instead of having bugged monsters that can one shot you the game should just occassionally have some really challenging areas/traps/scripted events so that when you are playing hardcore you will always be on edge and excited. Especially if you know a major challenge can pop out of nowhere at any time.
Sorry, but mobs killing you when you cant even see them isn't you being in control.
Sure it is, you built poorly, and played poorly.
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Same thing can happen with FELE mobs, or at least it could with the last patch but you didn't include them with your list of deadly mobs.
I did include FELE, actually. Just the NM ones which are still bugged, not the hell ones which were only bugged for a month or so. And even if I hadn't you can't expect me to list every dangerous circumstance.
And the thing with them is, they're even simpler than the vipers or gloams to avoid dying to. It doesn't take long to figure out "don't stand next to things that explode when they die". As YSM mentioned with MSLE, it's just a matter of reading the mods on the monster and responding appropriately.
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Furthermore, requiring some gear to do parts of the game is really poor design, regardless of whether it's HC or SC. Why? Because again it is taking the control away from the player. You are no longer free to gear your character how you want, because now you're required to either use one of the two lit absorb items, or put sol in a bunch of sockets, or whatever the case may be.
You're not free to gear your character how you want ever. If you were you'd see a lot more naked pure curse necros trying to solo the game than just the one guy.
However to avoid death to gloams you have more than 1 option. Stacking LR works fine. GA will do the trick. As will Los in gear. Walking the throne with a necro spamming DV off the screen turns them into jokes. You're forgetting the existence of Lightsabre. Stacked MDR helps too... Tgods or Wisp are just the optimal ways to do it.
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See, there's a difference between optimizing for a situation, and having a situation that requires a certain gear set. And in the case of things like old MSLE's, ESFE's, Tomb Vipers etc. It isn't a matter of OPTIMIZING to kill them, it's a matter of if you're geared wrong (and generally in a counterintuitive way) you're dead.
That's entirely untrue.
Tomb Viper poison clouds don't do damage to you if you don't walk in them, by the way. I learned that trick before I learned about PDR, and I was soloing Nihl with that knowledge in mind without any PDR gear.
Things that explode on death (or when they're hit) are 100% on the player to avoid.
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it really punishes people for being first to try something.
It also really rewards people for being the first to figure it out.
There's a reason you have to beat softcore once to get to hardcore. You figure out the basics of what to avoid (eg. explodey thingys and things that take out half your life in 1 hit), and you use what you learned to stay alive in hardcore. :P
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