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I surely hope the developers has PvP in mind when they design and balance the characters. PvP becomes the endgame for many of us, and building a superb char requiring a wealth beyond all other chars on the account, perfected and specialised as they may be.
Many a game, well all of them, WoW an excellent example, starts out with fleshing out the chars towards PvE, then later realise PvP is what keep many people playing.
Then it gets hard, because starting to balance for PvP ingame, requires suddenly that the whole world must change, as it's created to meet the skills of the chars. So the chars are locked by the world that is made as a glove around them and balancing becomes a difficult task.
So instead do it the easy way, make the chars PvP balanced first, then start fleshing the world around these chars. Not in anyway belittling PvE, as it is as stated made to fit as a glove around the chars in either way. Balanced or not.
I hope Blizz has realised from WoW, and from DII, that PvP is a gamekeeper, and that it's by far the easiest to adress it firsthand in development.
I, on the other hand, think they should say "**** PvP balance" as they have in D2.
I mean, don't ignore it completely, but don't make it anywhere near the focus. Infact, don't even worry about balance all that much in general.
D2 is stupidly unbalanced, in both PvE and PvP, but it's still obviously a lot of fun for a lot of people. Why? Because if you want to play the overpowered character, you can just go make one with a fairly limited time investment.
I'm not saying I want to see nothing but, say, barbarians in PvP, try to have all the classes at least somewhat capable, but if there's obviously more barbarians than anything else, that's not too terrible.
Focusing on the balance is for a game like WoW where someone who thinks their class is weak or another is strong can't just reroll in a day. Focusing on balance also results in a lot of unnecessary whining. For nerfs, for buffs, about nerfs, and about buffs.
I'm not a WoW hater, I hit HWL pre TBC, and 2250 in S1&2, but the focus on making it balanced and a professional sort of game gets kind of out of hand. I understand it because rerolling takes so long, but in D3, if it's character development is anything like 1&2, shouldn't be subjected to all that bull****.
Rerolling could be very hard if you factor out the rushing possibilities. I think we will see an attack on those in the next game.
Even then it's still only a week or so to level right now, and even if they change it into about a month like WoW, that's still not THAT bad.
Twinking is what makes it doable though. In WoW you've got a month to hit 70, but then you have to get the BG gear. And the professions. And the gems. And the enchants. And then, finally, you can start on the arena gear. And you have to do it every single time.
In D2, you level your one MF character, do runs for a month, and you're set for gear for the rest of the season with just whatever odds and ends you happen to pick up. Don't like your light sorc? Trade off all her skillers and buy max/ar/life charms. Decide the barb is lame? Trade those off and pick up pcombs.
A BoP concept would completely kill the ability to make whatever you want whenever you want.
A BoE concept would cripple it fairly decently.
I hope they don't introduce either with D3, but who knows =/
Hi I am new to theses forums. I just wanted to add in as a piggyback off of Wiz, I do tend to disagree with you on the BoP and BoE concept. I think items would carry more value in D3 if they were bound to you on equip. I do not think Bind on Pickup would work very well except for class specific items or charms, something along those lines. They did mention I believe that they would have class specific "adventures" so it would be a good instance of using the BOP for adventure rewards or something.
Imo.. PvP in diablo is more balanced than PvM actually. Hammer and generic sorcs are incredibly good PvM, while there are more comparable strengths of more builds in PvP..
Imo.. PvP in diablo is more balanced than PvM actually. Hammer and generic sorcs are incredibly good PvM, while there are more comparable strengths of more builds in PvP..
Neither is really balanced is the thing, and this is obvious in spades in HC, where if you can't kill faster than they can juv, leave, or get back to town, you shouldn't be playing, because even if you "beat" them 50 times, the one time they get the lucky crit, you're the one rebuilding =)
Everything being overpowered doesn't necessarily mean there's no PvP balance - take a look at Guilty Gear. What really counts is depth, and some mechanics to make sure that all classes at least have a reasonable chance, even if individual matches aren't all 5-5 even. The glaring problems are where, it doesn't matter how much better one player is than the other, class X always wins.
As for balancing for PvP and building PvM around it - I point to Guild Wars as the cautionary tale to consider before embarking on this sort of design adventure.
As for balancing for PvP and building PvM around it - I point to Guild Wars as the cautionary tale to consider before embarking on this sort of design adventure.
Care to elaborate for those of us who never tried Guild Wars?
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