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Old 06-05-2007, 10:03   #1
Akukami
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Akukami's CE Summoner Guide

Hi Everyone, and thanks for stopping by.

Welcome to my version of the CE Summoner!

I was re-reading some of the recent posts about Summoner Necs, and I finally decided to give my idea of a PvM Summoner a go around one more time. I think I may have something here.

What is a CE Summoner?

For those of you who don't know, CE stands for Corpse Explosion, and it is one of the more fun skills of the Nec that most people don't use at all because it is strictly for PvM. Combined with Amplify Damage, it packs a huge amount of damage. For my purposes, I decided to combine it with Raise Skeleton to give this build a small twist. I'll explain more as I go along.

However, before I move on, I will say that there are certain monsters this build will have high difficulty killing, and you will have to suck it up and run past them, get someone to help you, or prepare to sit for a long while. On the brighter side, this Nec is party-friendly, meaning that you don't have to raise minions and cause lag for others. Additionally, this build CAN EFFECTIVELY SOLO ALL ACTS IN EACH DIFFICULTY. How do I know? I just did it on Hardcore.

Gearing this Nec is really cheap, and as always, I'll include my own preference at the end later on. The gear I'm about to show you costs anywhere from a few PSkulls to some Gull-value items.

Gear
Helm: Wormskull
Weapon: Ume's Lament
Shield: The Ward OR 3-Sock PDiamond Tower Shield
Armor: Goldskin
Gloves: Magefist
Boots: Tearhaunch OR Hotspur
Belt: Bladebuckle OR Nightsmoke
Left Ring: FCR 2x FR/LR/PR (any combination of any 2 works)
Right Ring: (FCR) 2x FR/LR/PR (any combination of any 2 works)
Amulet: (FCR) +1 or +2 Nec Priz Amulet OR The Mahim-Oak Curio

There's nothing fancy here at all, and you can find a lot of this gear by trading. The overall ideas are to:

1. Get High FR/LR/PR - Since this is a PvM Nec, you're going to need to max out these three resists as much as possible. But don't forget to leave a tiny bit of room for some CR. You're going to need it in Hell A3.

2. Get 50 FCR - Ume's Lament + Magefist + one piece of FCR Jewelry will get this for you easily. It is possible to not have any FCR at all and still be effective, but I still recommend having this much for casting CE. Also, one insteresting tidbit is that Corpse Explosion is a considered a Fire Skill, and Magefist will add +1 to it.

The reason why I didn't include Sigon's Guard or Silks of the Victor in this build is simply because having maxed out PvM Resists is much better than two more added skills; you really won't need them anyways. You can argue this point if you wish, but I'm just talking from my own experience.

Stats
60-80 Base Str (depending on gear), Base Dex, Base Energy, Rest Vita

Str will vary with each Nec, but don't forget that The Ward adds 10 Str, Bladebuckle adds 5 Str, and Tearhaunch adds another 5 Str - a total of 20 added Str to wear Goldskin at 60 Base Str.

Skills (done at Level 80)
20 Raise Skeleton
20 Skeleton Mastery
15 Corpse Explosion
15 Amplify Damage
1 Clay Golem
1 Golem Mastery
3 Summon Resist
1 Raise Skeletal Mage
1 Revive
1 Teeth
1 Bone Spear
1 Bone Armor
1 Bone Wall
1 Bone Prison
1 into every other Curse on the Nec Tree

The two most important skills on that list are Amplify Damage and Corpse Explosion. If you didn't already know, CE deals half Fire AND half Physical Damage. And as you know, Amp Damage adds to the amount of Physical Damage done to a monster. Raise Skeletons are there because they, too, produce a small but very important source of initial damage and a first-kill in a pack for soloing purposes. Not only that, but they also serve as your main defense. Revives are there for backup and more damage, the Bone Skills are for some added Defense, and having at least one point into every curse gives your Nec party-friendly versatility in case your minions aren't welcome - in other words, less lag for everyone else in the party.

How to Play the CE Summoner

Some of you may already be familiar with how this Nec works, so you can skip this section if you like.

The main way this Nec works goes like this: after building your army, cast Amp Damage on a monster pack, watch carefully when your minions make the first kill, then use that dead body to blow away the rest of the pack with Corpse Explosion. The effect is that you start with one dead body and use the rest that are created after the initial Explosion to kill the rest. If you're in a party where other players kill faster than you, just leech off the dead bodies they leave behind and blow up whatever monsters are left standing. The idea is simple, but you really need some common sense when playing; you may end up doing more harm than help. For example:

1. Don't explode the entire pack of dead bodies when there's nothing left to kill. Although the rest of the dead bodies poof as you leave the area, you may need to come back to them in case your minions are squashed and you need to summon more. Additionally, if you're in a party with an HDin that uses Redemption to regain health and mana in a hurry, if there are no more bodies around, they won't be able to replenish.

2. If your party complains of too much lag from your minions, don't summon too many, or don't summon at all! They will probably kill faster than your minions, and you can support them with the right Curse or Amp-CE kills. However, if your party is really pathetic and can't kill a thing, then go ahead and summon away!

3. Remember that Amp + CE is your main source of damage. Using a minion with a Cold source of damage may/will shatter your first kill in a pack, leaving you with no corpse to explode for consecutive multiple kills.

There are a few more that I haven't mentioned, but those are the three potential problems to watch out for.

The First Kill

About now, you're probably wondering how to get the first kill en route to building your army. If you're playing with other people, you don't have to worry about that since you can just summon using the dead bodies they leave behind. However, if you decide to test your skill and solo in a private game, that first kill is really annoying - especially if you try this in HC. Ouch!

The way I did it was to shop for a Wand that had at least +1 Nec Skills with Bone Spear and/or Golem Mastery. After that, go out, and find the weakest possible monster you can attract, and make sure it's not a Supre Unique or a Minion of one. In my case, I picked on Fallen and Quill Rats in Act 1, Sand Leapers in Act 2, Cloud Stalkers in Act 3, and Flesh Beasts in Act 4. Do your best to lead at least one of them back to town. Summon a Clay Golem to help kill that lone monster, and if you're in Act 1-3, hire a Merc, too. You can help your minions by providing Amp Damage and shooting the monster with Bone Spear. If it tries to run, use Bone Prison to trap it and continue the killing process. If for some reason your Golem and Merc take too much damage from that monster or some other source, just come back to town and heal up. See why I had you stay close to town?

There will be some occasions when you lead too many monsters back to town, and your Golem and Merc won't be able to handle them without Skellies. In this case, just make another game! Cheap, but effective, hehe. And don't forget to re-equip Ume's Lament once you have your minions ready!

What You Can't Kill and How to Make it Killable

If you're soloing in a private game, you will eventually encounter a monster or monster pack that will totally wreck your minions no matter what you do. If you have a buddy that you can call to come help you, or you can loader up a multi-purpose killer, then forget reading this section. However, for those that are brave enough to take on the challenge alone, this section is dedicated to you.

Some of the monster packs that you will have a lot of problems with are mostly Super Unique packs that are Cursed, have Holy Freeze or Fanaticism, are Fire and/or Lighting Enchanted, are Extra Fast, just deal way too much damage, or have a combination of any of these. There are also the ones with Conviction that also use elemental attacks as their main source of damage. (Physically Immune monsters aren't a problem because Amp Damage increases Physical Damage just enough to eliminate that Immunity.) So what do you do about them?

The First Option is to run away. Simple, no? However, you won't be able to do this all the time, which leads me to the really annoying Second Option: make a new game and pray that the same one you may encounter doesn't spawn with the same attributes. Then again, there are instances when you have to kill them to complete a quest, like killing Andariel in Act 1. In this case, I present the Third Option.

Killing any difficult Super Unique or one of the final bosses at the end of each act is really a challenge, and you'll need some fancy playing in order to survive them. In this case, Decrepify is your friend, and you can pull it off Ume's Lament, or putting hard points into it. Slowing down the boss allows your minions to get in more hits and do more damage. (The only exception here are Super Uniques and Duriel who have Holy Freeze that will slow down your minions. Your minions should be able to take on the Super Unique if there aren't too many surrounding minions. For Duriel, the good news is that he attacks one minion at a time. If you continuously summon a Golem in directly in front of him, there is a good chance he will turn his attention to it and attack that instead, giving the rest of the minions the opportunity to hit him.) However, that alone won't be enough. In order to keep your minions healthy enough to kill the Supre Unique or boss, you'll have to hit town numerous times to heal up and make sure your minions are ready for another round. It takes quite some time in order to pull this off, but trust me, using this tactic on any seemingly unkillable monster or monster pack does work.

Leveling

Of course, this is probably the hardest part of building this Nec, and you'll probably want someone to Chant you to get the ball rolling. But if you want to take it easy and go through the game normally, or you don't have a Chanter readily available, please refer to Orphan's Guide to find the best place to level.

Up to Level 30, make sure you have Raise Skeleton maxed out with one point into Amp Damage, Corpse Explosion, Clay Golem, Summon Resist, and Decrepify. Once you have these in place, depending on how you intend on playing your Nec, leveling the other required skills will vary. If you plan on soloing in a private game most of the time, or if the group you mostly play with can't kill effectively, max out Skeleton Mastery, and get 15 into Amp Damage then Corpse Explosion in that order. If playing with a group that kills like there's no tomorrow, get 15 into Amp Damage and Corpse Explosion, and work on Skeleton Mastery later. In either case, placing at least 1 point into each of the other Curses should be last.

I mentioned not to completely neglect CR in the Gear section, and that is for those annoying Heirophants and Mephisto in Act 3 who will drop an occasional Blizzard on you and your minions. Keep that CR high enough to be able to survive those!

My Build

I played with my own CE Summoner on HC, and I wish I had better gear to put on it. On SC, this is the gear I would be aiming for:

Gear
Helm: Wormskull
Weapon: +2 Nec 20 FCR +3 Bone Spear
Shield: 17/30/20 High Priz FR/LR/PR Stacked Grim Shield (PDiamond Sock)
Armor: 24 FHR 9x Life 2x FR/LR/PR Mage Plate (any combination of any 2 works, PRuby Sock)
Gloves: Magefist
Boots: 30/10 3x FR/LR/PR or 2x FR/LR/PR Demonhide Boots (any combination of any 2 works)
Belt: 24 FHR 1x+ Str 3x+ Life 2x FR/LR/PR Demonhide Sash (any combination of any 2 works)
Left Ring: FCR 5+ Str 2x FR/LR/PR (any combination of any 2 works)
Right Ring: The Stone of Jordan
Amulet: +2 Nec High Str High Life/Mana High Priz FR/LR/PR Stacked

This is an extremely rich build, and it will take a lot of resources to get gear that high-end. I don't intend on spending that much on this character, but considering the fact that I'm getting bored with making mainstream characters, I may invest a lot to get this gear.

Stats
45 Base Str, Base Dex, Base Energy, Rest Vita

In my experience, 45 Base Str was enough for me, and it was mostly because I had to wear Magefist. I don't recommend keeping this Nec as a Pure Vita character because you'll have to rely on a lot of Str Gear, which gets really annoying.

Skills (done at Level 82)
20 Raise Skeleton
20 Skeleton Mastery
15 Corpse Explosion
15 Amplify Damage
1 Clay Golem
1 Blood Golem
1 Iron Golem
1 Fire Golem
1 Golem Mastery
1 Summon Resist
1 Raise Skeletal Mage
1 Revive
1 Teeth
1 Bone Spear
1 Bone Spirit
1 Bone Armor
1 Bone Wall
1 Bone Prison
1 into every other Curse on the Nec Tree

With an added +6 skills from my gear, having 1 point into every skill, except for the Poison ones, gives me the ability to have A LOT of extra killers and a bigger guard for soloing and the ability to help out my party with any one of the Curses on the Curses tree. Any Skill Points past Level 82 will go into Summon Resist to add more elemental resistance for my minions.

Wow, lengthy guide, but at least I got most of my main points across. Thanks for reading, and I hope you, too, will enjoy making this Nec.

- Akukami
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Old 06-05-2007, 12:54   #2
Fearlessone
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Your post was up barely 2 minutes before I started reading it, and already 9 views after a few more minutes. Lots of good tips here and things to think about for future necros.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Akukami
CE...is strictly for PvM. Combined with Amplify Damage, it packs a huge amount of damage.
Well, as you get better with CE, you will find it is the terror of many would-be pk'ers, and even in dueling in the hell blood moor a couple Carver corpses can take out some surprised players. I wouldn't chance any of this in HC, btw.

Amp is half fire damage and half physical damage, as you note below, and being familiar with the monsters resists and immunities is key to not waste valuable corpses. Using lower resist is actually superior for killing some monsters with CE, just as amp is superior for Fire immune monsters.

Quote:
On the brighter side, this Nec is party-friendly...Additionally, this build CAN EFFECTIVELY SOLO ALL ACTS IN EACH DIFFICULTY. How do I know? I just did it on Hardcore.
Never tried HC or a build based so heavily on summons. One question I've got is how you deal with the Undead Stygian Dolls in the Durance. Sometimes it seems that when you kill them with a CE of your own, that their explosion on death doesn't hurt the other players, and then other times it does, or at least seems to. (Oddly, many times my barbs will ww these dolls and not take any CE damage). I would guess in HC games, the 50% or so times that dolls spawn, I've read stuff like: "...then I just exit game."

Quote:
some CR. You're going to need it in Hell A3.
For the blizzard casters in Kurast?

Quote:
Get 50 FCR - Ume's Lament + Magefist + one piece of FCR Jewelry will get this for you easily. It is possible to not have any FCR at all and still be effective, but I still recommend having this much for casting CE. Also, one insteresting tidbit is that Corpse Explosion is a considered a Fire Skill, and Magefist will add +1 to it.
I've got 30% fcr, and might try this with Magefist. I've always been disappointed with the slowness of getting the first explosion, and wondered if it was related to fcr or the animation. (Some fcr is critical for good barb BO casting using hotkeys). My particular build needs lots of mana, and currently use frosties.

Quote:
didn't include ....Silks of the Victor
Silks is nice well into the ladder season when you have very nice resists built up on your choice items, but not before then.

Quote:
Skills (done at Level 80)
20 Raise Skeleton
20 Skeleton Mastery
15 Corpse Explosion
15 Amplify Damage
Hi radius amp is nice with just one cast, but with the time it takes to kill a mob, and the low mana cost of amp, I would get a much lower lvl of amp and max CE here. Use a few amp casts....or do you find that the amp wears off inconveniently? Plus skills items should bring the amp back up to 15 or so total.

Quote:
Raise Skeletons are there because they, too, produce a small but very important source of initial damage and a first-kill in a pack for soloing purposes. Revives are there for backup and more damage
Skellies pack into the spaces around a monsters better than bulkier revives do, although some choice revives pack more damage, such as club-wielders like Urdars.
Quote:
then use that dead body to blow away the rest of the pack with Corpse Explosion. The effect is that you start with one dead body and use the rest that are created after the initial Explosion to kill the rest.
I've found that if you have a big mob and its taking a long time to kill it, that monster reheal is a problem and you might wait for a few corpses to accumulate (unless Corpse Spitters are about) then CE all at once, and with high lvl CE, nearly every monsters is dead after a handful of casts.

Quote:
Remember that Amp + CE is your main source of damage. Using a minion with a Cold source of damage may/will shatter your first kill in a pack, leaving you with no corpse to explode for consecutive multiple kills.
and a poison mage is useful for keeping reheal down. Also, I feel lvl=1 poison nova is a useful skill for this type of necro. Do you dare to get this close in HC?
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Old 06-05-2007, 14:07   #3
IsThisNamePermanent
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I'm building this very same build, I just got back on d2.
My acc is gone so I'm rebuilding, any one on softcore USWest ladder feel like helping me out??

*xtc-coke

By the way do you think I can get away with lvl 3 skellies and lvl 10 skelly mastery? I could possibly use the extra skill points from that to put into PN.
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Old 06-05-2007, 16:10   #4
DevilSlaya
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Quote:
Originally Posted by IsThisNamePermanent View Post
By the way do you think I can get away with lvl 3 skellies and lvl 10 skelly mastery? I could possibly use the extra skill points from that to put into PN.
From my personal experience, using PN does too little damage if not maxed. If your planning of using it to stop monsters from healing, you got to take into account that PN only acts for 2 seconds. You could cast PN every moment or so, but you've also got to cast amp dmg, recast skellies, cast CE.

For me it worked best having 2 or so poison mages. Their poison length is much longer and they dont need as much attention as u would need switching skills from PN, amp dmg, CE, raise etc etc.

D4_D3V!L
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Old 06-05-2007, 16:22   #5
Hawkreborn
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[QUOTE=Fearlessone;5473876]
Hi radius amp is nice with just one cast, but with the time it takes to kill a mob, and the low mana cost of amp, I would get a much lower lvl of amp and max CE here. Use a few amp casts....or do you find that the amp wears off inconveniently? Plus skills items should bring the amp back up to 15 or so total.

Other than that good guide but it reminds me of this one... http://strategy.diabloii.net/news.ph...rget%20Values:
I would have to agree with fearless
Amp damage could be lvl 10 +6 skills = 16--->11.3 yards
Corpse explosion lvl 20 +6 skills = 26---> about 11 yards

and devil mages are a waste of points, they do too little damage in nm and barely any in hell
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Old 06-05-2007, 16:26   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fearlessone View Post
Hi radius amp is nice with just one cast, but with the time it takes to kill a mob, and the low mana cost of amp, I would get a much lower lvl of amp and max CE here. Use a few amp casts....or do you find that the amp wears off inconveniently? Plus skills items should bring the amp back up to 15 or so total.
Overall it is a good guide but it somewhat reminds me of this one... http://strategy.diabloii.net/news.ph...rget%20Values:
I would have to agree with fearless
Amp damage could be lvl 10 +6 skills = 16--->11.3 yards
Corpse explosion lvl 20 +6 skills = 26---> about 11 yards

and devilslaya personally i think that mages are a waste of points, they do too little damage in nm and barely any in hell
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Old 06-05-2007, 18:27   #7
DevilSlaya
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As is any point in PN if not plannin on using it as a main attack. It worked for me having ~8 points in mages and casting a few to get that 2 or 3 poison ones.

Well thats my point of view...im off to get me some food
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Old 06-05-2007, 19:59   #8
Akukami
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The way I played with this Nec, I found that I never needed CE greater than 17, and this is with +2 Skills. I tried to maintain a good balance of Amp and CE given the limted gear I had available to me on HC, and I would probably still use the same ratio if I built it on SC.

As for CE being used as a PvP skill, you're right, it will surprise a lot of people not familiar with it. However, finding a body to pop in the area where the PKer might be is extremely difficult, and I highly doubt that they would stick around long enough in that one spot for you to kill something and explode it in their face. I'm not saying it can't be done, but this Nec is NOT, I repeat, NOT meant for PvP. If used otherwise, then it's going to crumble in a matter of seconds. This is the main reason why I said that CE best used as a PvM skill.

Moving on to Lower Resist being better than Amp Damage in some cases, I can't recall a time when I found that to be true. If anything, the most useful Curse, aside from Amp, is Decrepify.

With regard to a point in Poison Nova, the amount of damage done with this attack is extremely pathetic and lasts for two seconds if I recall correctly. I may re-visit this option later on try and to find a nice PvM build based around PN, but I have high doubts about it.

Same thing goes with Skeleton Mages. Even with Poison Mages, the damage is too low and doesn't last long at all. To me, they're just additions to my meat shield, and nothing more.

Hawk, I realize that this guide is similar to the one you posted, however, that is for LoD, and mine is in no way, shape, or form meant to be affiliated with it.

Also, to Warlock, can you please shorten Fearlessone's first reply to this thread? I realized after reading it that he forgot to delete the rest of what he wasn't going to reply to starting with the line, "Do you dare to get this close in HC," and ending with "[/quote]." Also, if you can, please delete Hawkreborn's first post. It was an accidental double post on his part. I wouldn't normally ask this from you, but I noticed that the first page to the guide itself takes a bit of time to properly load, and having excess lines would just make it load even slower.

- Akukami
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Old 06-05-2007, 22:45   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Akukami View Post

Hawk, I realize that this guide is similar to the one you posted, however, that is for LoD, and mine is in no way, shape, or form meant to be affiliated with it.

Also, to Warlock, can you please shorten Fearlessone's first reply to this thread? I realized after reading it that he forgot to delete the rest of what he wasn't going to reply to starting with the line, "Do you dare to get this close in HC," and ending with "." Also, if you can, please delete Hawkreborn's first post.
- Akukami
oh sorry didnt notice either of them the double post and that the guide was for LoD
So now your guide is probably the best guide out there now and its for 1.11
please delete my other post
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Old 06-05-2007, 23:29   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Akukami View Post
now...build... your army...find the weakest possible monster you can attract, lead at least one of them back to town. Summon a Clay Golem to help kill that lone monster... hire a Merc, too. You can help your minions by ...shooting the monster with Bone Spear. If it tries to run, use Bone Prison to trap it...There will be some occasions when you lead too many monsters back to town... just make another game!
Good overall strategy. Have you tried the Attract/Confuse/Terror tree at this point, when too many come? I find low lvl Terror to be just awful in any constricted space. Also, if you attracted a single monster just a short distance, casting a bonewall will bring a host of various monsters from about half a screen beyond what you can see. (bonewall is often like a mass taunt skill, nice to plant a bonewall right on top of a mound of corpses --- and let them come)

Quote:
you will eventually encounter a monster or monster pack that will totally wreck your minions no matter what you do... (Physically Immune monsters aren't a problem because Amp Damage increases Physical Damage just enough to eliminate that Immunity.)
But they still have alot of physical resistance. Can your minions really still take these out using mostly physical damage? I've seen barbs ww amp'd PI bosses, and still take a long time.

Quote:
instances when you have to kill them to complete a quest, like killing Andariel in Act 1...In this case, Decrepify is your friend...
Most summons necros who even bother to use any curses choose this curse, to preserve their minions at all times and occasionally to deal with these special monsters. They dont amp at the right moment, just before CE, and most don't even CE. And thank goodness they got rid of the, hmm, was it pre 1.08? penalty where Diablo did an extra 3x damage to minions. Within a few fire nova's he would wipe out the army, and then what...? It was very unfair to summoners in single player.

Quote:
...the rest of the dead bodies poof as soon as you leave the area...
But not if you cast a tp on top of that area, the masses of corpses arent removed, and you can plan around that: go a distance away, and come back for more minions or bring a pesky mob to the unused mass and blow them all up. Just dont take the town portal unless necessary, because many of the corpses will poof.

Quote:
.
1 Bone Spear
.
1 into every other Curse on the Nec Tree

With an added +6 skills from my gear, having 1 point into every skill, except for the Poison ones, gives me the ability to have A LOT of extra killers and a bigger guard for soloing and the ability to help out my party with any one of the Curses on the Curses tree. Any Skill Points past Level 82 will go into Summon Resist to add more elemental resistance for my minions.
- Akukami
You seem to find this 1 point +6 skills + 3 Bone Spear from a wand to be useful. I see other summoners doing this with low lvl bspear, even in late hell. This should be easy to experiment with. Thx for your detailed reasoning.

Edit: thx WarlockCC for editing my first responding post, this is the 2nd part. Got delayed. It really looked shabby for Akukami's guide to have the first few posts so messed up.

Last edited by Fearlessone; 07-05-2007 at 00:14..
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