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  1. #11
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    Re: I ran the Countess enough times to cube an Ohm

    Wow, that must have taken quite a while. Well done anyway.
    Countess is actually mainly good for low runes. It's where you go if you want a couple of dozen hel or Amn runes.

    I understand your sentiments on LK. And it is perfectly fine not to do it. I never did any LK runs and didn't have a problem in getting runes.
    That said, there are much better things than running the countess.
    Council in Travincal is very popular, and not just for barbs, paladins are cool too. Other than that just questing or running level 85 areas in Hell difficulty. Also, trading used to be good in this regard, but that has dropped a lot and not really sure what the situation is now.

  2. #12
    IncGamers Member maxicek's Avatar
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    Re: I ran the Countess enough times to cube an Ohm

    Countess is sooo 1.10, good job.

    I remember people joining the forum when I joined and claiming that they made Enigma from countess cubed runes. Invariably a ban came shortly after, but not before three pages of sarcastic questions and witch hunting. Oh those were the days ...

  3. #13
    IncGamers Member Gripphon's Avatar
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    Re: I ran the Countess enough times to cube an Ohm

    Quote Originally Posted by Darkthrone View Post
    Some would suggest to pick up other things like gems, jewels, charms, etc. which is fine, but then your run times suffer. Plus I keep enough charms in my inventory that sometimes that becomes a nuisance.
    You are right, if you pick up charms and jewels, your run times will suffer. However, this will only mean ti will take you longer to get rune, that is all. On a profit side, if you compare haul of player who picks up only runes vs player who picks up jewels and charms too, there is only one possible victor. Player who picks only runes will get more runes obviously, but his overall haul will pale compared to second player.

    Now, some numbers for comparison to explain why first player stands no chance.

    Assume we have 2 players who both run LK in 18 seconds average time if they pick only runes. How much slower will second player be if he picks up jewels and charms? Let's say there is 2 seconds difference, but I believe difference is even less than that.
    Every 2000 runs you get some great charm at average, or some great jewel. In LK it takes 390 (or whatever, something like that) runs to get Vex+ rune at average.
    After 2000 runs second player will be 4000 seconds behind first player, meaning first player will do total of ~222 runs more. First player might be Vex+ rune ahead of second player, however second player will get many charms and at least one really good charm/jewel.

    Let's continue on. After 6000 runs first player will do total of ~666 runs more. By this time, first player will be 1 or 2 Vex+ runes ahead, however second player will get 3 really good charms/jewels by this time, few decent ones and many others. With 6000 runs done he has good chance to get at least one godly charm/jewel which is better than any rune LK can give except Ber probably.

    If we continue this even more, second player will eventually really get godly charm/jewel which is worth even more than Ber. Sure, he will be Sur + Ohm or whatever shorter in runes, but if we consider all charms and jewels he got, some of them more valuable than both Sur and Ohm, he will clearly come victorious.

    Another reason why is profitable to pick charms and jewels is... after some time runes become "lolrunes", not something you really need. It took me half year after restart to get to the point of "lolrunes", where I had many runes collecting dust in stash. Well, they were good trade fooder, and still are. But godly jewel/charm will always be godly jewel/charm, always useful and always great. In 15k or so Lk runs, I got at least 3 charms/jewels more valuable than Ber itself, many that are at rang of Sur, many that are close to it and many good ones. And if I skipped charms and jewels, now I would be few high runes richer, having few more dust collectors in stash.

    That is my case, however you get the point. So, even if you run a little slower when picking up jewels and charms, you will always have higher profit compared to someone who picks only runes.

  4. #14
    IncGamers Member NoisemakerArrow's Avatar
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    Re: I ran the Countess enough times to cube an Ohm

    The defense of Vampire Gaze can actually drop if upgraded, so you might not want to chance it.

  5. #15
    IncGamers Member helvete's Avatar
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    Re: I ran the Countess enough times to cube an Ohm

    Quote Originally Posted by maxicek View Post
    Countess is sooo 1.10, good job..
    I actually ran countess until I had CtA and HotO in 1.10 and back then, even IO and LUM seemed worth cubing. Rough estimate of 15k runs, but might have been a lot more.

  6. #16
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    Re: I ran the Countess enough times to cube an Ohm

    Quote Originally Posted by nulio View Post
    A well-played Blizz Sorc can be as much or more efficient than a Barb running Trav (it will depend on the skill playing both). In the Lounge or show videos thread frozzzen posted a nice video of his blizzsorc running trav.
    I tried them out for a bit. I did terribly at first but then you kinda develop strategies once you learn some of their patterns. She does pretty well, especially now with Call to Arms. I switched out the Magefist with some rare gloves with fire resistance and she's at 75%, so it's pretty safe. I can see myself going back to them from time to time.

    Quote Originally Posted by nulio View Post
    I find that weird because normally the mercenary is just something to help the sorc with his auras, and maybe just kill an immune monster you don't want to leave alive. The sorceress kills much faster than the merc. For example, versus mephisto you just use the moat trick and blizz him away if you feel it's too risky to kill him in another way.
    Looking over the auras offered by the other mercenaries, I think defiance is the best one (for a sorceress). Might and thorns are pretty much useless given she's a sorceress, and prayer is just a non-factor later in the game. That leaves holy freeze and defiance. Holy freeze seems to be popular, but I just don't see its benefit when I can teleport around quickly if required.

    Defiance turns my mercenary from just a walking aura (I have an Insight on him, though I probably don't need it anymore) into a full-fledged tank. As a ranged character, I really appreciate him being able to occupy the hoards while I rain (or snow?) death upon them.

    As for the moat trick, I find it to be way too slow. Right now I can just teleport right in front of Mephisto and begin my assault. He'd be dead before he reached the moat.

    Quote Originally Posted by japanzaman View Post
    I did this a while back for a hardcore javazon and vowed never to do it again. I'm pretty sure LK would be just as fast on a good map, and there's always the possibility a Ber falls. Three of those, and look out.
    Yeah it was mostly as an experiment. Plus I just find running the Countess to be cathartic. I have since rolled a pretty decent Lower Kurast map which I began running late last night. I'll stick with it until I get some good drops. An Enigma would be pretty awesome.

    Quote Originally Posted by maxicek View Post
    Countess is sooo 1.10, good job.

    I remember people joining the forum when I joined and claiming that they made Enigma from countess cubed runes. Invariably a ban came shortly after, but not before three pages of sarcastic questions and witch hunting. Oh those were the days ...
    Oh, to have an Enigma...

    Quote Originally Posted by Gripphon View Post
    Assume we have 2 players who both run LK in 18 seconds average time if they pick only runes. How much slower will second player be if he picks up jewels and charms? Let's say there is 2 seconds difference, but I believe difference is even less than that.
    I can't run Lower Kurast in 18 seconds even if I just teleport to the chests and don't open them, and I have a decent map with both campfires next to each other next to the way point, and I have 200% faster cast rate.

    Also I don't think it's only 2 seconds more. It's probably a lot more than that when you consider picking up the additional items, identifying them, putting them in your stash (if they're worth keeping), making room for them, replenishing ID scrolls, etc. You probably end up spending a lot more time than just two seconds. That's not to say your analysis is incorrect, but I think your numbers may be a bit off.

    Lastly, I find runes to be far more valuable than jewels or charms. Yeah, you could find a +20 life, 7% magic find small charm, or some godly skiller, but for me those are worth next to nothing compared to a high rune. I can honestly say I have never put a jewel into an item in my Diablo II career, save for low level stuff when you're just starting a character and anything is better than nothing. Rune words are in my opinion the best items in the game, and are also the most time consuming to obtain due to the scarcity of the runes.

    I see what you're saying, and to be honest I do pick up small charms, grand charms, and jewels, but I'm not happy about it.

    Quote Originally Posted by NoisemakerArrow View Post
    The defense of Vampire Gaze can actually drop if upgraded, so you might not want to chance it.
    Oh really? How does that work?

  7. #17
    IncGamers Site Pal pharphis's Avatar
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    Re: I ran the Countess enough times to cube an Ohm

    base defense on an armor is rerolled once upgraded. The ED% will remain the same, though

  8. #18
    IncGamers Member Gripphon's Avatar
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    Re: I ran the Countess enough times to cube an Ohm

    @ Darkthrone

    I can't run LK that fast either, however there are some players around here who can, even faster than 18 secs.

    As for 2 seconds thing, it's technique thing. When running LK, you don't use ID scrolls, they are waste of time. With them it's a lot more than 2 secs difference, I agree. However, ideal LK runner has only 2 columns of keys in inventory and everything else empty. That way you do tens of runs before you get full, you just run like maniac, pick up things. After you get full, you visit Cain, identify everything with one click, drop useless stuff, then repeat. It takes time to get full, so that one run when you will check everything wont add much to your running times.

    As for your high values of runes, I can understand it. Now I don't know your case, but I will tell generally. Usually runes are very valuable to a player who don't have some key runewords, like Jah and Ber to make Enigma, Lo for Grief and such. As you make runewords, runes become less and less valuable to you. After you make everything you need, you will find runes a lot less valuable than before. With charms is the opposite. In the beginning that Enigma or Grief will mean a lot to you, but some 20 life 11 lite res won't mean that much. As you grow richer, your equipment needs become more specific. Once you make key runewords and find key items, suddenly only way to improve character is through charms. At that point charms become more and more valuable.

    That is one possible way of playing the game. Some players have their own style and they never really need some fancy charms while runes are always welcome. In HC runes are a lot more valuable than in SC.

    Now only question is what playing style do you have. If you prefer to continually improve your characters, making them better and stronger, you will eventually get to the point when runes won't do a thing for your character, but charms will. Or some jewel. Especially because in 1.13 runes are pretty much everywhere. Ok, it's not like that for some casual player, you still must play the game to get stuff.

    You don't need to pick charms or anything if you are not happy with it, however you might ask yourself in the future "why the hell didn't I pick charms, now I would kill to get that and that charm or this jewel, maybe I left it on the ground... and what the hell should I do with this 2 Jahs?!" ^^

  9. #19
    IncGamers Member NoisemakerArrow's Avatar
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    Re: I ran the Countess enough times to cube an Ohm

    The defense ranges for Grim Helm and Bone Visage overlap, so if you have a high defense Vampire Gaze, it might have less defense after the upgrade if you roll a low defense Bone Visage. You can calculate the base defense of your Gaze by working backwards and seeing where it falls in the range of a Grim Helm. If it's on the low end, then you can upgrade without worry.

  10. #20
    IncGamers Member helvete's Avatar
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    Re: I ran the Countess enough times to cube an Ohm

    Quote Originally Posted by NoisemakerArrow View Post
    The defense ranges for Grim Helm and Bone Visage overlap, so if you have a high defense Vampire Gaze, it might have less defense after the upgrade if you roll a low defense Bone Visage. You can calculate the base defense of your Gaze by working backwards and seeing where it falls in the range of a Grim Helm. If it's on the low end, then you can upgrade without worry.
    All unupgraded items which spawns with %ED spawns with a base defense of max+1, thus there is no such thing as a "high defense Vampire Gaze", since all of them spawn with the exact same defense (save for ethereal ones, which are also all alike).

    This even applies to the IK armor, since it has %ED as a hidden bonus.

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