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  1. #11
    IncGamers Member Drystan's Avatar
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    Re: Singling Community Feedback

    The problem is primarily for newcomes. Hypothetical to follow:

    I join the forum, find this "Vanilla + Singling" and start playing. I then enter the trading forum, and find other players offering "Vanilla" items. Trade goes ahead, as both are using the term "Vanilla," and one persons items get tainted.
    As said, with a reduced trading population, it's not so bad, but this forum has always tried very hard to keep tags, status's and mods to a minimal, and clear and concise definitions.

    All I'm saying is that for a new player, skimming rules (not that this ever happens here!), and who wants to jump in to trading, you offer some very easy ways for peoples' stashes to become tainted. Regardless of what you claim, "Vanilla + Mod" would be FAM (Forum Accepted Mod,) and NOT 'Vanilla,' and NOT 'Vanilla + anything'. Keeping the term Vanilla in something that is not Vanilla can lead to confusion among new players, who may or may not read stickied threads.
    Please, clear up your definitions to reduce this potential for error. The forum has always strived to keep mods to a minimum to avoid tainting others' stashes, while still allowing a solid quality and quantity in the trade pool with minimal fragmentation.

    Quote Originally Posted by fearedbliss
    mod is created from a clean base and not from an existing mod
    So, how many mods do you have, and how many files have you created from original files and pre-modded files? In reading this comment, it appears as if you are saying you have used the original file for adding mods, and used prior-modded files to change, develop and add mods.
    I know you've already PM'd Thyiad, but I believe there are questions and challenges still left blindingly obvious and uncorrected.

    Quote Originally Posted by fearedbliss
    Having to deal with "more parameters/shortcuts" is against my philosophy
    I agree with this to a point, and do believe that it could be simplified in the manner you are pushing for. Again, to help newcomers (there's always some challenges - not everyone is an advanced computer user, and knows about shortcuts and command lines, so simplification is always welcome.) That's why I said there had to be an option to change the modded file with a clean, original/Blizzard file.

    Hypothetical:
    I want to enter B.net, but I have your .mpq with the .dll data injected into it. I then have to copy and paste a clean/original file from windows explorer before launching the game, or else get banned from the servers. I then want to go back to running a few mules to the HellForge in Single Player. I have to, again, copy and paste the modified file over the clean one.
    To work around this, you (you seem to have programing experience) could have a popup that automatically replaces one file with another, depending on whether you want a clean file for B.net, or modded file for multi-instance.dll. (This does enter mod-making topic, but I made similar, basic programs (replace one file with another, and make a backup of both files) back in high school, so I'm sure such a thing wouldn't be hard to do for an experienced modder. I also made a .bat file just to copy, zip and backup my save files whenever I wanted to, so that itself should be fairly straight forward.)

    Instead, what I currently do is have mine set up with one install to have two shortcuts. For me, simple because I know a little about those command lines, but for a newcomer, or new computer user, it can be challenging.

  2. #12
    D2 Assassin, Barbarian
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    Thyiad's Avatar
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    Re: Singling Community Feedback

    Think we've got a tad off topic from the initial question. The initial question was about the experience part.

    I can understand what fb is saying when he describes Singling as Vanilla+RWM+modified.dll; he's trying to indicate that it doesn't have anything extra (EG modified stashes etc).

    Once we're happy with the actual content of the mod, we can work on definitions for wider use.

    Adding another split to the trade forum is not something I'd like to see, although it's been quite clear that there is still a very strong preference for keeping FAM and Vanilla as separate entities.

    If we're happy with the content of Singling, then I'd be tempted just define it as FAM and leave it at that; the same way we do with the Mac version. With a clear warning to people in the download - or on the title screen - "Do not go on Bnet with this". Which is pretty much what is on the current FAM mods in the Stickies. There has to be some personal responsibility.

    I've already mentioned this to fb but one thing that would be great would be a menu like Minecraft where you pick which version you want to play on the title screen, and it pulling up the correct save directories. I've probably taken this a bit too far mod support with that comment but it'd be interesting to see how many people would find something like that useful. Maybe I'm just rubbish at fiddling with version switchers.

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  3. #13
    IncGamers Member Corrupted's Avatar
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    Re: Singling Community Feedback

    Quote Originally Posted by Thyiad View Post
    [...]I've already mentioned this to fb but one thing that would be great would be a menu like Minecraft where you pick which version you want to play on the title screen, and it pulling up the correct save directories. I've probably taken this a bit too far mod support with that comment but it'd be interesting to see how many people would find something like that useful. Maybe I'm just rubbish at fiddling with version switchers.
    Something like this does actually exist. (Unfortunately) for the SPF its bundled with <something else> (you can disable it with one mouse click though.)
    Last edited by Thyiad; 19-09-2013 at 17:46. Reason: mod name removed

  4. #14
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    Re: Singling Community Feedback

    @ Drystan
    I join the forum, find this "Vanilla + Singling" and start playing. I then enter the trading forum, and find other players offering "Vanilla" items. Trade goes ahead, as both are using the term "Vanilla," and one persons items get tainted.
    As said, with a reduced trading population, it's not so bad, but this forum has always tried very hard to keep tags, status's and mods to a minimal, and clear and concise definitions.
    It's not "Vanilla + Singling", It's "Vanilla + RWM + Modified.dll = Singling". Singling = RWM + Modified.dll bundled up. As I said before, I've added "Vanilla D2" so people know that it was bundled up with a fresh/clean D2. Not a pre-existing mod.

    So, how many mods do you have, and how many files have you created from original files and pre-modded files? In reading this comment, it appears as if you are saying you have used the original file for adding mods, and used prior-modded files to change, develop and add mods.
    I know you've already PM'd Thyiad, but I believe there are questions and challenges still left blindingly obvious and uncorrected.
    That is exactly why I stated that Singling = Vanilla D2 + RWM + Modified.dll. This equation means that Singling was made from _all original_ blizzard files. No other files. This question clearly hits the nail right on the head on why I added that equation to the README. I want people to know that it was made from a clean foundation and no other pre-existing, modified files.

    Hypothetical:
    I want to enter B.net, but I have your .mpq with the .dll data injected into it. I then have to copy and paste a clean/original file from windows explorer before launching the game, or else get banned from the servers. I then want to go back to running a few mules to the HellForge in Single Player. I have to, again, copy and paste the modified file over the clean one.
    To work around this, you (you seem to have programing experience) could have a popup that automatically replaces one file with another, depending on whether you want a clean file for B.net, or modded file for multi-instance.dll. (This does enter mod-making topic, but I made similar, basic programs (replace one file with another, and make a backup of both files) back in high school, so I'm sure such a thing wouldn't be hard to do for an experienced modder. I also made a .bat file just to copy, zip and backup my save files whenever I wanted to, so that itself should be fairly straight forward.)

    Instead, what I currently do is have mine set up with one install to have two shortcuts. For me, simple because I know a little about those command lines, but for a newcomer, or new computer user, it can be challenging.
    I don't know if you watched the video I made, but in the Singling 1.0.1 install guide I showed people how to install Singling. There were two methods I showed them, one is to just go ahead and replace the files, the second way was for them to rename to dll and the patch. It's only two files so it's viable, but still, a version switcher as Thyiad stated would be the solution.

    @ Thyiad

    I can understand what fb is saying when he describes Singling as Vanilla+RWM+modified.dll; he's trying to indicate that it doesn't have anything extra (EG modified stashes etc).
    Exactly !

    Adding another split to the trade forum is not something I'd like to see, although it's been quite clear that there is still a very strong preference for keeping FAM and Vanilla as separate entities.

    If we're happy with the content of Singling, then I'd be tempted just define it as FAM and leave it at that; the same way we do with the Mac version. With a clear warning to people in the download - or on the title screen - "Do not go on Bnet with this". Which is pretty much what is on the current FAM mods in the Stickies. There has to be some personal responsibility.
    I agree with you. I also wouldn't want to split the FAM community and the people using Singling. Singling is FAM. It was mean't to just bundle up the FAM communities stuff into a simple, easy to install thing. No reason to split the community if 1 = 1 . I only named it Singling to give it a cool sounding name, and of course to add a distinction at the Title Screen. Currently players who use FAM don't know if they are using -direct -txt or some other thing other than by memory or actually checking the shortcut properties. With the title screen label, they know immediately right when they open up d2.

    If acceptance of Singling means that FAM people would be split yet again, I would prefer for Singling not to be accepted and people not to use it. No point if people are not playing together.

    I've already mentioned this to fb but one thing that would be great would be a menu like Minecraft where you pick which version you want to play on the title screen, and it pulling up the correct save directories. I've probably taken this a bit too far mod support with that comment but it'd be interesting to see how many people would find something like that useful. Maybe I'm just rubbish at fiddling with version switchers.
    I don't think this is hard at all and I've actually written some code related to another application to this. I think the best thing I could do would be to program it either in Java or Python since those two languages can run on a variety of platforms. I'll probably do this at some point, but that's a conversation for another thread, I'll pm you if anything haha .

    - jon

  5. #15
    IncGamers Member
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    Re: Singling Community Feedback

    Neat bundle.

  6. #16
    IncGamers Member EmperorMoo's Avatar
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    Re: Singling Community Feedback

    Firstly, I need to mention that I'm entirely self-found, and am never/have never going to multiplay: glorious isolation ftw!

    I downloaded it and used it last night. Worked like a charm, so I'm going to be using this from now on. @fb: If I have any bugs/issues, I'll let you know.

    Moving 2x files into your D2 root folder and renaming the originals in case you want to remove is child's play, and should remove all questions about how to set up rwm and the .dlls.

    I would definitely recommend acceptance of this bundle by the spf.

  7. #17
    IncGamers Member
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    Re: Singling Community Feedback

    I'm glad it was able to help you EmperorMoo. As far as bugs are concerned, I'll be here, but I doubt you will have any bugs lol. I mean it's only two things so the area for bugs is extremely small. If the runewords are being created successfully, and multiple instances work, than that's it, no bugs (Things that I extensively tested before releasing to the public) .
    Last edited by fearedbliss; 20-09-2013 at 16:40.

  8. #18
    IncGamers Member naranjadita's Avatar
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    Re: Singling Community Feedback

    a version switcher
    Add this and Singling is good to go, IMO.
    I, for example, like to drop onto battle.net from time to time, and I don't want to get banned because of modified library. And constant replacing and renaming files is just meh.
    Don't see a reason for singling to break up FAM divison in two.
    But if it does - not a big deal. I mean, come on. There are HC and SC, Vanilla and FAM, 1.06, 1.07, 1.08, 1.09 and even some 1.11 players (1.13 ofc being the majority), there are those who accept atma bug and those who don't, those who accept time travels and those who don't. There is already a bazillion divisions.

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