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  1. #11
    Europe Trade Moderator krischan's Avatar
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    Re: Why removing the auctionhouse will probably keep me off D3EXP all together.

    Quote Originally Posted by Punkonjunk View Post
    Now, brace yourself, as I'm sure this is going to be a huge wall.

    So. I played the **** out of D3. I logged some 600 hours or so gettin' everyone to 60, etc. Spent a lot of time on the auctionhouse, some flipping, lots of upgrades, and so on. I do, of course, recognize that the actionhouse allowed me rapid upgrading at a low price, but the cost of that was the loot in farming seemed like trash. all the time.
    That kind of frustration was my reason for quitting after 200 hours and four L60ers (all but a witch doctor) in late 2012. I needed AH gear almost everywhere to survive inferno, perhaps with 5 self-found items, and I never found a single legendary item, just a plan for a Staff of herding. It seems my way of playing D3 provided entertainment for less time than it did for D2.

    If they remove the AH, the trading forums will be back to what they were in D2. I think their existence was one of my most important reasons for playing D2 for so long, despite the repetitive nature of what I did. I will probably give D3 another try after the AH has shut down and they have something like a ladder system.

    I'm also expecting more activity on the D3 trading forum which I happen to moderate . More power for me again, mwahahaha!!
    Last edited by krischan; 18-09-2013 at 18:12. Reason: witch DOCTOR *sigh*
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    You know I'm born to lose / and gambling is for fools / but that's the way I like it, baby / I don't want to live forever!

  2. #12
    IncGamers Member HardRock's Avatar
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    Re: Why removing the auctionhouse will probably keep me off D3EXP all together.

    Quote Originally Posted by JEB90 View Post
    First, thanks for telling me how I'd like to play.
    I apologize, that wasn't my intention at all.

    It's great that you enjoy trading and it's obviously much more important to you than to me, but you'll still be able to trade, even after the AH is closed. The problem with the AH is that in my opinion its ease of use will always push all players towards trading, even if they don't like it, because the alternative is playing hundreds of hours or just to get one or two upgrades. From what I've heard not many people find that fun or rewarding (meaning the long gaps between upgrades, not trading) in a game that's all about items in the end. Raising the drop chances would only give access to even more items at lower prices.

    When there are some barriers to trading I think it makes sense that it's more likely that only people who enjoy playing that way (like yourself) will do so, while the rest of us will enjoy finding our own loot, because the drop chances can be safely raised without the whole of the economy overflowing with the best items. The economy will still be affected of course, but much less so than with an AH, where I could share my loot with a few clicks.

    Closing the AH is progress in the sense, that now people who don't care about the economy will be much less affected by it. It does suck if you're a trader, I acknowledge that, but in my mind this is the lesser of two evils, because this way a whole aspect of the game won't be pushed on people who don't want to bother with it or by it.

    I hope that made some sense. I also hope that it's clear that I don't want this change just because of myself and that I wouldn't want to punish anyone. I do feel that this is a necessary change though and that the game will be better for it overall. I fully admit that fact that I'm not a trader may influence my view on this issue though.

    Disclaimer: The devs increasing the drop chances to allow even non-traders to find most of what they want is kind of an assumption on my part, but we do know they are making the loot more personalized (and making the personalized loot BoA or BoE) and that they are increasing the drop chances of Legendaries. Their goal seems clear to me. Whether they achieve it is the real question.
    Last edited by HardRock; 18-09-2013 at 21:31.

  3. #13
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    Re: Why removing the auctionhouse will probably keep me off D3EXP all together.

    The obvious solution was simply to keep the AH.

    But. Uber-nerf it.

    Implement a system where players only got to use it a few times per 0-60 run. And a few more times after.
    t
    You could either do this via hours of game played / experience earned / number of mobs killed.

    Or do it via in-game found items that were super rare. Scroll of sale. Scroll of purchase. Each valid for one AH use.

    Certainly not a shortcut to the self found items. But also a better alternative to trade channels and chat spam or 3rd party websites like d2.

    Whats wrong with that idea!?

  4. #14
    IncGamers Member trocadero's Avatar
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    Re: Why removing the auctionhouse will probably keep me off D3EXP all together.

    So it feels like they want to end all trading, both from an incentive point but also from a mechanical point. They probably are going to go full bore BoA or just disable all types of P2P trading. No more trade window! On Monday, I would've thought that was insane, today, it's seems logical and actually the right idea.

    But, as others have said, I don't really play all the classes, even though I got all of them; my Barb and Monk are what, PLevel 2? 3? Whatever it was where you group through MP0 Inferno to get the achievement. If I find a great Inna's something, I want to trade it in for better Zunni gear or maybe a Chantodo (sic). And the absolute best part of the AH; I could do this trading simultaneously w/ playing! You know, killing monsters! Like you're supposed to! WUG chat spam meant you weren't killing monsters, which is what they want us to do at all times.

    But, as I said earlier, I think they don't want you to trade w/ other people, at all. If they match the drops for this goal (like the console) then it'll be a short term success. But then you'll get everything you want in a month or two, and then what? You can't trade in the PC version, and PvP might actually be worse than D2, which I never thought possible. There's nothing to do w/ the gear you just found super quickly. So maybe the PC is dead and truly gone; buy the console version, b/c then you can trade it back in when you complete your Grail in 6 months.

  5. #15
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    Re: Why removing the auctionhouse will probably keep me off D3EXP all together.

    I just don't think the AH itself was the core of the issue with D3s "failure". I simply believe Blizzard went too far in trying to get in on the micro transaction goodness. The game is by no means too hard or impossible without the AH, but the game feels like it was built around players using it. In the question of why the initial loot design was so horrible I'm even partial to saying it was intentional considering Blizzards vast expertise on the area (WoW, D1, D2).

    I'm not stranger to the amount of trading that goes on in D2, but it never felt like you needed to do it. I've always lived off the land and I've been stuck grinding Meph in NM to get through Hell more hours than I care to count. You do catch a break every now and again however and it's no doubt what keeps you playing.

    I got to paragon 40 in D3 and just felt I was racking up screen upon screen of rare junk. I didn't feel the game was too hard by any stretch, but it did not feel rewarding. It's the lack of endgame goals like runewords and elite legendaries that put me off D3. Granted, D2 went a bit far here with the high rune droprates, but knowing it's there gives me a drive and motivation.

    Considering for instance the amount of duped runes in circulation (the mere fact that an Enigma is considered a required "standard item".. ), I don't think the idea of an ingame AH was bad at all. I see D3 at launch as a failed experiment. They failed to see what was so great about D2 and compromised the loot system either from greed or incompetence.

    edit: bottom line: I do hope they manage to fix this now, but I don't think closing the AH is a good idea.

  6. #16
    IncGamers Member HardRock's Avatar
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    Re: Why removing the auctionhouse will probably keep me off D3EXP all together.

    One other thing that I'd like to throw out there is that trading by chat spam is just an assumption at this point, they only confirmed that the actual trade would happen in-game, inside the trade window. They never said the mechanism for finding sellers or buyers would be chat spam once again as far as I know. Just something to think about. I will definitely do that, because right now I can't think of any alternatives.

  7. #17
    IncGamers Member Speedster's Avatar
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    Re: Why removing the auctionhouse will probably keep me off D3EXP all together.

    Quote Originally Posted by JEB90 View Post
    The whole fantasy that you will find exactly what you are looking for and never want to trade is a farce. Now they are forcing us back to spam channels and third party sites. Tremendous progress. I guess we can chalk it up to Blizzard's new found religion--if the vocal whiners don't like it, take it away from everyone...
    I think this sums it up. There's an idealistic fantasy that if the AH goes away everyone will stumble across godly gear over time and suddenly develop extreme patience.

    The reality is that the AH was just a more sophisticated trade forum than the third party sites in D2, and that the power players are always going to find the fastest way to acquire the best gear.

    I tend to agree with the original post'er that a vocal minority may have influenced things for the worse. But, if the AH goes away, they will either be proved right or wrong.

  8. #18
    IncGamers Member Wolfpaq777's Avatar
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    Re: Why removing the auctionhouse will probably keep me off D3EXP all together.

    Quote Originally Posted by JEB90 View Post
    The whole fantasy that you will find exactly what you are looking for and never want to trade is a farce. Now they are forcing us back to spam channels and third party sites. Tremendous progress. I guess we can chalk it up to Blizzard's new found religion--if the vocal whiners don't like it, take it away from everyone. AH? Leech? Barb Nerf? Archon Nerf? Check, check, check, and check.
    Let's not lump barbs & archon in with the auction house change.

    Blizzard has stated for months now that they were getting rid of perma archon / wotb. Fortunately cd reduction is making its way onto gear/gems/paragon2.0 so you'll be able to significantly reduce the cooldown. Also life leech was removed from all classes so obviously barbs weren't specifically targetted there. That said, barbs needed a nerf more than any class I have ever seen in any rpg so you can't say the other nerfs weren't justified.

    The auction house removal though is completely out of left field. Utterly ridiculous and a terrible decision for the game. They better freaking quadruple our stash size now because gold is done as a meaningful currency. Its gonna be all about the gear. Perhaps one of the gems will take over as the defacto currency, but I doubt it. If someone has a godly item you want, you better pray to your gods that you have a godly item they do.

  9. #19
    IncGamers Member TheDestructor's Avatar
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    Re: Why removing the auctionhouse will probably keep me off D3EXP all together.

    With the AH the path of least resistance will always be buying your items, now without it, the best way to get items is by playing the game (because trading is a PITA for better or worse). I think this is a better alternative to our current situation. I think both options have their merits, but for the long run of the game, going without the AH is a better choice as it allows them to tweak drops to be more forgiving without the AH cutting the legs out from under the rewarding monster killing experience.

  10. #20
    IncGamers Member Speedster's Avatar
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    Re: Why removing the auctionhouse will probably keep me off D3EXP all together.

    Quote Originally Posted by Wolfpaq777 View Post
    Let's not lump barbs & archon in with the auction house change.

    Blizzard has stated for months now that they were getting rid of perma archon / wotb. Fortunately cd reduction is making its way onto gear/gems/paragon2.0 so you'll be able to significantly reduce the cooldown. Also life leech was removed from all classes so obviously barbs weren't specifically targetted there. That said, barbs needed a nerf more than any class I have ever seen in any rpg so you can't say the other nerfs weren't justified.

    The auction house removal though is completely out of left field. Utterly ridiculous and a terrible decision for the game. They better freaking quadruple our stash size now because gold is done as a meaningful currency. Its gonna be all about the gear. Perhaps one of the gems will take over as the defacto currency, but I doubt it. If someone has a godly item you want, you better pray to your gods that you have a godly item they do.
    Yes, good point. There was a definite need to balance the OP builds and skills, and the fun factor of the game should get a nice boost.

    Also agree on the pending uselessness of gold being a BIG problem, one that the AH had solved. There's a reason economies moved away from barter around the world. In D2, gold was useless so high runes became the de facto currency. Maybe gems will replace gold and we'll all have to learn that one manticore with certain stats = some number of radiant emeralds ... sounds, uh... fun.

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