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  1. #1
    IncGamers Member Punkonjunk's Avatar
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    Why removing the auctionhouse will probably keep me off D3EXP all together.

    Now, brace yourself, as I'm sure this is going to be a huge wall.

    So. I played the **** out of D3. I logged some 600 hours or so gettin' everyone to 60, etc. Spent a lot of time on the auctionhouse, some flipping, lots of upgrades, and so on. I do, of course, recognize that the actionhouse allowed me rapid upgrading at a low price, but the cost of that was the loot in farming seemed like trash. all the time.

    This was disheartening. Constantly. But.... the AH, was at least helpful to get to end game.... there just wasn't anything to DO when I got there. Paragon is a joke, seriously a joke. Grinding is not fun, it's grinding. if it was fun, we would call it fun, and not grinding.
    You might grind a blade before you use it, but here, we have nothing to use the blade on, we get the best we can, and grind it to a husk.

    Too much metaphor.
    I stopped enjoying it as it felt pointless.

    Eventually, I found path of exile; an amazing game emulating the nostalgic fun I had in D2, but with a massive skill set that was quite simply insane. Just off the wall insane. You adjust, but it's still a beautiful thing to behold, to this day...

    However....

    Gear upgrades are a nightmare.

    These are the tools we use to scour the forums for upgrades:
    http://poe.xyz.is/

    Take a ****ing look at that. it's sort of like the autionhouse in D3. Except you have no idea if the item is sold or available, or if the guy is offline and will be for weeks, or if he wants 800% of what you currently have in currency.

    It's virtually impossible to find upgrades reasonably in PoE. The trade economy being what it is, value is generally extremely flexible, but very, very high cost regardless.
    There is also a trade chat channel. Where people link items. Repeatedly.
    I don't need to get that deep into it; it's completely and arbitrarily obnoxious, and creates artificial trade barriers that are simply infuriating for reaching end game in a game that has some semblance of one.

    Diablo 3's itemization might change in a big way, but at some point, there will be a wall.
    This wall would normally be meted out by the auctionhouse, so you know what you need, how much, etc.

    Now, that wall will be not only not knowing what you need, but not knowing who to buy it from, or how to get in touch with them, etc.

    No matter what is implemented in it's place, it will be much, much more difficult to use. Arbitrarily.

    I feel like the AH whiners were the vocal minority and this is a PR stunt to save face, because honestly people were and totally must still be using the AH to progress, and I don't see that as problematic, at it's core; while account bound gear is annoying it provided a step out, but loot 2.0 is ideally the right step, gear that matters dropping.

    but no matter how it's handled, it won't change the fact that we now suddenly have a new arbitrary difficulty implemented in finding what we want.


    And that is ****ing infuriating.

    If I didn't like the AH, I wouldn't use it.

    I don't understand why they wouldn't implement a non-AH league or playstyle.

    Because seriously, why are we taking it from everyone?

    Does everyone REALLY want the auctionhouse gone?

    I know I don't, and I'm sure I'm not alone.

  2. #2
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    Re: Why removing the auctionhouse will probably keep me off D3EXP all together.

    Does everyone REALLY want the auctionhouse gone?

    I know I don't, and I'm sure I'm not alone.
    Can't please everyone so they chose to please self-found. Because self-found players care about fun more than winning and games are supposed to be fun. Congrats to Blizz for choosing fun over power gaming.

  3. #3
    IncGamers Member HardRock's Avatar
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    Re: Why removing the auctionhouse will probably keep me off D3EXP all together.

    Tell me if I'm wrong, but you look like someone who enjoys the item hunt as an endgame as well. In the current incarnation of D3 the AH short circuits this item hunt, so it's no surprise that you didn't find anything to do after relying on it for your upgrades. What's worse is that if you ignore the AH you're met with ridiculous drop chances fairly quickly, but of course you know this already.

    I don't know about you, but I think D2 did things really well in the endgame, which is the reason why so many people played it for a long time. You had drop chances that allowed you to reach the end of Hell in a reasonable amount of time, even without trading. There was no need for an AH, or really for any kind of trading at all. It was only there to help you fine-tune your character to the highest degree. I think a system like that is the way to go for a game where items are the goal for the majority of players. Based on your registration date I assume you're an old-school D2 player. How would you like a system similar to D2's? Would it still make you miss the AH?

    With the new, potentially build changing Legendaries i think the AH would hurt the game even more, because people could try out every combination of build and items really quickly (even if only with less than stellar Legendaries), so the endgame experimentation would be cut really short. I think with reasonable drop chances there's no need for the AH, but first we need to be able to reach 75-80% of our characters' potential by ourselves. Based on what we know so far D3 is definitely moving in this direction. Let's hope we'll learn more from BlizzCon.

  4. #4
    IncGamers Member Punkonjunk's Avatar
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    Re: Why removing the auctionhouse will probably keep me off D3EXP all together.

    I traded here for D2, back in the day. It was very, very frustrating, but the market saturated quickly.

    I've never much liked forum based trading, and I think the auction house is an extremely natural evolution for a trading economy. I think the problems with D3 were lumped onto the auctionhouse as the lowest common denominator, but quite unfairly.... D3 has a lot of problems.

    Stretching out the value of build changing items by making them harder to find from other players isn't a fix. It's a wall. By the time I played D3, we already knew that enigma, shako etc was mandatory for many builds... but it didn't change the enjoyment.... because on the road to that build, we had a LOT of choices. a LOT of builds. I had 3 accounts filled with different things I'd done, from enchantress to FoHer, (named Hammer_PK, for trollin' pub duels)

    I'm not arguing against respec, either. One tiny facet of the problems here is that there are SO FEW effective builds. In D2, PVP was basically rock paper scissors with a lot of builds, and that's fine, it wasn't built for PVP. but you could bust through that whole game and have fun doing it with HUNDREDS of builds. Try explaining that to my D3 barb. Go on, try, I'll wait.

    Yeah, stupid tornadoes haven't stopped. And for sure it was a crazy fun build for a while, but..... there should be a lot of builds like that. Like, an insane amount.

    I spent hundreds of millions trying to make a viable melee wizard in D3, but no matter how hard you try spectral blades is gonna keep on sucking compared to your other options.

    And again, that's just scratching the surface.

    I feel like we're solving a huge problem with a wall. If I thought climbing walls was fun, I'd go join the army, or just climb walls.

    I like instant gratification, but that's not to say everything should be. The options should be so diverse that the instantaneous nature of the auctionhouse doesn't stop people from experimenting, but rather encourages it.

    Another neat point for path of exile? They roll out new uniques on a weekly basis, usually a couple at a time, generally at least 1 is designed by the playerbase. These often open up neat new build ideas, too. (and cost a buttload.... for a while, which of course, would be reduced if path of exile had an auctionhouse, introducing a reasonable economy on the barter system, which they won't now that blizzard has basically set the precedent for hating auction systems.)

  5. #5
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    Re: Why removing the auctionhouse will probably keep me off D3EXP all together.

    Quote Originally Posted by Punkonjunk View Post
    I spent hundreds of millions trying to make a viable melee wizard in D3, but no matter how hard you try spectral blades is gonna keep on sucking compared to your other options.
    This is true, D2 had practically no bad skills. Oh wait....

  6. #6
    IncGamers Member Punkonjunk's Avatar
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    Re: Why removing the auctionhouse will probably keep me off D3EXP all together.

    It had a lot of bad skills.

    That was over a decade ago, and many bad skills could still be built around and pushed into end game. (see superdave's valk thing)

    That was a big place skill levels and unique gear and runewords came into play. There was a HUGE base of diversity in equipable and item modification.

    Diablo 3 is missing a lot of these important factors, and I don't think fixing it mandates the removal of the auctionhouse.

  7. #7
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    Re: Why removing the auctionhouse will probably keep me off D3EXP all together.

    Hey Punko, you lazy sack of zebra poo. Come on IRC and say hi! Slacker!

    p.s I agree, killing ah/rmah is as stupid as allowing religion to have any control in your lives.

  8. #8
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    Re: Why removing the auctionhouse will probably keep me off D3EXP all together.

    The whole fantasy that you will find exactly what you are looking for and never want to trade is a farce. Now they are forcing us back to spam channels and third party sites. Tremendous progress. I guess we can chalk it up to Blizzard's new found religion--if the vocal whiners don't like it, take it away from everyone. AH? Leech? Barb Nerf? Archon Nerf? Check, check, check, and check.

  9. #9
    IncGamers Member HardRock's Avatar
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    Re: Why removing the auctionhouse will probably keep me off D3EXP all together.

    Quote Originally Posted by JEB90 View Post
    The whole fantasy that you will find exactly what you are looking for and never want to trade is a farce.
    Even when you can't find exactly what you're looking for, trading doesn't have to be so important as it is now. It certainly wasn't in D2. You could definitely gear up your character for Hell just by yourself in less than 100 hours and you would enjoy doing that, because good and interesting Uniques and Sets were constantly dropping for your characters. While in the same amount of time you could probably reach MP2-3 In D3 (I don't know, I never tried), you may not see any Legendaries at all during that time (this I do know from personal experience). That's the problem and the reason is the AH.

    Many people think that if the drop chances would be much higher than they are now people would stop using the AH so much, but that would only be true if the drops would be absolutely absurd. You're talking about guaranteed rewards with the AH versus chance based rewards with drops. People will always prefer the former (especially after they got used it), until the latter becomes almost a guaranteed way to always get what they want. This is made worse by the fact that people already accumulated a lot of gold, so if you would increase the drop chances players could buy stuff even more cheaply, because prices would plummet due to the increased supply.

    If trading is ever to be balanced against drops, then it needs to have some hindrances for players, just like drops have with their chances, hence the removal of AH and the return of bartering. In a game where items are the goal for the majority this is the only way to do things in my opinion. We simply need barriers on trading to keep items valuable in the long term, while still allowing them to have realistic drop chances.

  10. #10
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    Re: Why removing the auctionhouse will probably keep me off D3EXP all together.

    Quote Originally Posted by HardRock View Post
    Even when you can't find exactly what you're looking for, trading doesn't have to be so important as it is now. It certainly wasn't in D2. You could definitely gear up your character for Hell just by yourself in less than 100 hours and you would enjoy doing that, because good and interesting Uniques and Sets were constantly dropping for your characters. While in the same amount of time you could probably reach MP2-3 In D3 (I don't know, I never tried), you may not see any Legendaries at all during that time (this I do know from personal experience). That's the problem and the reason is the AH.

    Many people think that if the drop chances would be much higher than they are now people would stop using the AH so much, but that would only be true if the drops would be absolutely absurd. You're talking about guaranteed rewards with the AH versus chance based rewards with drops. People will always prefer the former (especially after they got used it), until the latter becomes almost a guaranteed way to always get what they want. This is made worse by the fact that people already accumulated a lot of gold, so if you would increase the drop chances players could buy stuff even more cheaply, because prices would plummet due to the increased supply.

    If trading is ever to be balanced against drops, then it needs to have some hindrances for players, just like drops have with their chances, hence the removal of AH and the return of bartering. In a game where items are the goal for the majority this is the only way to do things in my opinion. We simply need barriers on trading to keep items valuable in the long term, while still allowing them to have realistic drop chances.
    First, thanks for telling me how I'd like to play. This whole attitude that "if you only have to grind more for sub-optimal gear things would be wonderful" might be great for you, but I'm not interested in spending more time to have worse gear. Diablo is and has always been a trading game. You may not have used the d2 trading forums here, on bnet, and on other very popular 3rd party sites, but to pretend they weren't important in the game shows a serious misunderstanding of it. How in the world do you think people got runewords? Furthermore, I play primarily one class--barbarians. I've done this since d2. Maybe that's a stupid way to play, but I like it. When I find good stuff for the other classes, I want to trade it for good stuff I can use. Making that harder and calling it progress is just stupid.

    Oh--by the way--you actually "need" very few things in life. Pretty much you need to breathe, eat, drink, sleep, and evacuate waste. Everything else is optional. Those of you who keep screaming about what the game "needs" would do well to remember that.

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