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  1. #31
    Europe Trade Moderator krischan's Avatar
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    Re: Zealot: Phoenix or Hoz?

    Quote Originally Posted by nulio View Post
    Edit: where did you see me saying he would inflict twice as much damage? It was you saying he would take four times as much damage. Heck, if we ignore killing speed, it would be more than 4x times the damage because of lower defense, and no choice of using a Ber in the HoZ, for example.
    In my mind, I compared it with an imaginary two Grief weapons in both hands, but if you deal double Grief damage with a two-hander, you still have to leech twice as much to keep your life bulb as well-filled as with a shield... and give away holy shield. Whatever, having to apply more battle tactics seems to be what gives you a challenge
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  2. #32
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    Re: Zealot: Phoenix or Hoz?

    Quote Originally Posted by thefranklin View Post
    Then maximize kill speed, and for that I would choose Phoenix over HoZ.
    When comparing DPS, bear in mind that the delay triggered by the Phoenix shield's 40% Chance to Cast Level 22 Firestorm on Striking can add a delay between Zeal sequences, effectively decreasing attack speed: see this recent analysis.

    Quote Originally Posted by Excalibur View Post
    I would like to create a 2-handed zealot too but this one is sticking with a shield. But if you had to go for a 2-handed weapon, is a Death much superior to a BotD?
    With Guillaume's Face, Highlord's Wrath, Gore Rider and a Death Colossus Sword, you will have 100% Chance of Crushing Blow, and 100% Deadly Strike from level 80 onwards; level 20 Fanaticism and 52 IAS (15 Jewel, 20 Amulet, 20 gloves) gets your attack speed to 5/5/5/5/11, while 58 IAS (+10 belt) is required for maximum attack speed, 5/5/5/5/10 (or level 27 Fanaticism and 54 IAS).

    Quote Originally Posted by Excalibur View Post
    Just wondering, why you are not using exile for the ubers? LoH also grabt 350% damage to demons so that would be a huge bonus. My bnet experience is limited and I have never been on Uber runs so I am just asking.
    +% Damage to Demons is not applied by Smite, which is preferred to Zeal as it always hits and cannot be blocked, and focuses damage on the uber bosses rather than spreading it between them and their minions.

    Quote Originally Posted by jeffy View Post
    You also get drastically increased kill speed against Wave 2 since you circumvent their high physical res and they proc Confuse almost every time so you only need to kill the main guy to get to the next wave.
    It's not like the Chaos Sanctuary, where you only need to open all the seals and kill the three Super Unique monsters to spawn Diablo (and kill every remaining monster); Baal will not summon any wave until he is no longer aware of any monster, which means they all either have to be killed or lured back to the entrance of the throne room (so you don't actually need to kill any Super Unique).

  3. #33
    IncGamers Member nulio's Avatar
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    Re: Zealot: Phoenix or Hoz?

    Quote Originally Posted by krischan View Post
    In my mind, I compared it with an imaginary two Grief weapons in both hands, but if you deal double Grief damage with a two-hander, you still have to leech twice as much to keep your life bulb as well-filled as with a shield... and give away holy shield. Whatever, having to apply more battle tactics seems to be what gives you a challenge
    I see It's hard to compare unless one is sure of the rest gear for each setup. If one is going for maximum damage possible and doesn't mind previous versions items 1.07 eth base both setups will go higher. And without atma bug - which is a big plus for me - death setup gains some advantage. Then when doing the math with Phoenix we have to consider firestorm proc'ing, so it's even harder to compare. And it's just the damage part, if we start factoring needs of leeching because of higher damage being taken, it's a big spreadsheet! And it's one of the things I love in D2!

    Zeal Pally will never be a great contender for efficiency, so for me it's being stylish and being fun to play with yeah

    And I'm sure that after a while Excalibur will feel the need to make his Pally more challenging. The only paladin easier to play than a zealot is a right click zealot! ^^

  4. #34
    IncGamers Member helvete's Avatar
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    Re: Zealot: Phoenix or Hoz?

    Quote Originally Posted by onderduiker View Post
    It's not like the Chaos Sanctuary, where you only need to open all the seals and kill the three Super Unique monsters to spawn Diablo (and kill every remaining monster); Baal will not summon any wave until he is no longer aware of any monster, which means they all either have to be killed or lured back to the entrance of the throne room (so you don't actually need to kill any Super Unique).
    I believe he meant to say that a monster cursed with confuse isn't recognized by baal, but bosses cannot be confused. This leads to baal summoning next wave (or entering the worldstone chamber) regardless of how many monsters are close, as long as they are all cursed with confuse.

  5. #35
    Europe Trade Moderator krischan's Avatar
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    Re: Zealot: Phoenix or Hoz?

    That's an interesting alternative to parking a problematic Baal wave
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  6. #36
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    Re: Zealot: Phoenix or Hoz?

    Quote Originally Posted by helvete View Post
    I believe he meant to say that a monster cursed with confuse isn't recognized by baal, but bosses cannot be confused. This leads to baal summoning next wave (or entering the worldstone chamber) regardless of how many monsters are close, as long as they are all cursed with confuse.
    Ah, I see: apologies to jeffy.

    I'd read about this in reference to a bug causing Baal to stop summoning the next waves (the suggested cause being monsters killed by other monsters not being counted as dead), but I've not been able to reproduce this bug so it might have been fixed (although the last reference I've found to Confuse in the patch notes is for 1.10, and the reports I read were made a couple of years after it was released). Has anyone ever experienced this post-1.10?

    Although since the reports I've read concerned Delirium, the bug could be caused by conversion by Mind Blast cast when struck instead...

    Quote Originally Posted by krischan View Post
    That's an interesting alternative to parking a problematic Baal wave
    Except for Lister the Tormentor's Minions of Destruction, since Confuse does not apply to them. However, they're easy to lure back to the entrance of the throne room.

  7. #37
    IncGamers Site Pal pharphis's Avatar
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    Re: Zealot: Phoenix or Hoz?

    Quote Originally Posted by krischan View Post
    That's an interesting alternative to parking a problematic Baal wave
    you should see frozzzen's ball run record. I don't have the link...
    (help someone!)

  8. #38
    IncGamers Member Excalibur's Avatar
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    Re: Zealot: Phoenix or Hoz?

    Guys one more thing. Which of those two rings would you use? I was using the first one and I though I would barely find something better, but the I found the second one which grants me enough resistances to easily max my resistances and even 13 dex to raise my block up to 68%!

    Entropy Band
    Ring
    Required Level: 65
    Item Version: 1.10+ Expansion
    Item Level: 83
    Fingerprint: 0xe159eeb9
    +94 to Attack Rating
    +7 to Minimum Damage
    Fire Resist +4%
    Lightning Resist +24%
    Cold Resist +4%
    Poison Resist +4%
    7% Life stolen per hit
    5% Mana stolen per hit
    Wraith Hold
    Ring
    Required Level: 48
    Item Version: 1.10+ Expansion
    Item Level: 90
    Fingerprint: 0x906a7607
    +13 to Dexterity
    Fire Resist +8%
    Lightning Resist +18%
    Cold Resist +8%
    Poison Resist +38%
    5% Life stolen per hit
    32% Extra Gold from Monsters

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