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  1. #21
    Administrator Flux's Avatar
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    Re: Monk Reaper of Souls Datamined Skill Changes

    Let it go on the sniping, guys. A useful correction was provided and implemented.

    Back to discussing the Monk's changes. I'm curious about Fists of Thunder.

    Generate: 8 Spirit per attack. Teleport to your target and unleash a series of extremely fast punches that deal 145% weapon damage as Lightning. / Every third hit deals 275% weapon damage as Lightning split between all enemies in front of you and releases chain lightning, dealing 73% weapon damage as Lightning to up to 3 additional enemies.

    • Thunderclap: Release an electric shockwave with every punch that hits all enemies within 6 yards of your primary enemy for 35% weapon damage as Lightning and causes knockback with every third hit. (Lost its teleport effect since that's now a basic for the skill, and gained knockback.)
    • Bounding Light: Every third hit also releases chain lightning dealing 73% weapon damage as Lightning to up to 3 additional enemies. (It sounds like the basic Chain Lightning will hit up to 6 enemies with this effect.)
    The current generates 6 spirit and the damage is just 110% weapon, so those are big buffs. The chain lightning might be fun, though the visual clutter with that plus the SW tornadoes could be crazy. But it sounds like they're reducing the AoE value a lot, by buffing the 3rd hit damage but dividing it up. So much boosted for killing off single targets, but worse against huge packs?

    That sounds pretty okay to me; SW helps against big groups and you can drop some bells on them also, and then buffed damage from Fists to chew up the remaining enemies. I don't honestly feel the monk needs more buffs to that build, but I'm not going to turn them down...
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  2. #22
    IncGamers Site Pal Genocides's Avatar
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    Re: Monk Reaper of Souls Datamined Skill Changes

    I honestly really hated the idea of giving the teleport to the skill at base. I think a teleport could have been baked into a passive to provide for much more build diversity or atleast provide other added benefits for the other generators. To me it seems like they buffed FoT too much when it already was the #1 generator to begin with. More damage than all, more spirit generated than all, teleport, speed. I hope they did something unlisted to increase proc coefficients in the others or at least increase how things like WotHF crits get utilized with other skills/runes that rely on crits like Blazing fists, sweeping wind etc. If anything they should add the short dash associated with fist of fury to WoTHF base, and maybe increased the damage substantially of deadly reach or something. The knock up is like using the Pillar of the ancients rune of Bells. It doesn't knock them away it just knocks them up interrupting them slightly. I'd love to see one of them with an inherent increased attack speed like crippling wave from a rune possibly. I think the hands of lightning rune in WotHF is a good start.

    I could see some great uses from Mystic Rhythm with bells allowing for the better use of high spirit spirit spenders or even dashing strike type builds. Wish they'd make SSS less of a cd and more of a spirit limitation, but I could see the paragon points coming into play there with cd reduction. LTK still seems like it lacks enough damage to be used.

    Not sure on dashing strike yet. I've used it for a long time for defense to get out of tight spots. I do like that it is targetless now as that is always bothered me because it's unreliable when you are trying to click a far away mob and it comes up short and does no damage or plainly only moves you the minimum amount and you are still in a bad spot. 50 spirit is a lot, but warranted with damage boost and no target req. Just an adjustment is all.
    Very hopeful of cyclone strike as it's a really fun skill to use, but the damage isn't there if you could use that as your main Spirit spender and escape out with a dashing each time while enemies get stunned or something that would be boss.

    I'm hopeful of mantra of retribution seems like they could make some fun runes.

    Also glad for the range increase to mantras as it was ridiculous that party members on the same screen had to get closer to you to benefit most of the time.

  3. #23
    Administrator Elly's Avatar
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    Re: Monk Reaper of Souls Datamined Skill Changes

    Quote Originally Posted by snurrfint View Post
    Also, manners only seem to matter to you when stuff is directed towards you or someone you work with and not when someone offend another user or the Blizzard developers, which happens on a daily basis.
    The post was reported to me that's why I tended to it.

    It's not so much about being offended, I'll not necessarily take any action if someone is offended as people choose to be offended by practically nothing on the internet. It's more about rudeness. As you said, you came across more harsh than you wanted but I'm happy it's been resolved.
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  4. #24
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    Re: Monk Reaper of Souls Datamined Skill Changes

    I'm curious about FoT, they buffed the damage and the spirit generated just about enough to remove the faster attack speed you get with this skill. Neither do I any longer see that in the description. Would help balance out the different basic attacks imo.

    I wonder how Thunderclap knockback will work, will it be like the knockback we have now on every 3rd hit, or will it be more like LTK. First case is rather useful, but the second case... do not want.

  5. #25
    IncGamers Site Pal Genocides's Avatar
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    Re: Monk Reaper of Souls Datamined Skill Changes

    Probably like the WotHF knockback no idea though.

  6. #26
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    Re: Monk Reaper of Souls Datamined Skill Changes

    Quote Originally Posted by Volapyk View Post
    I'm curious about FoT, they buffed the damage and the spirit generated just about enough to remove the faster attack speed you get with this skill. Neither do I any longer see that in the description. Would help balance out the different basic attacks imo.

    I wonder how Thunderclap knockback will work, will it be like the knockback we have now on every 3rd hit, or will it be more like LTK. First case is rather useful, but the second case... do not want.
    All spirit generators have some degree of enhanced attack speed. In fact, the first two strikes of deadly reach are faster than Fists of Thunder. It's unlikely they tweaked this.

    The spirit generator changes don't make much sense to me. FoT is already very strong and very popular, it doesn't need a buff. Deadly reach is pretty much only used for the foresight bonus. Crippling wave is situationally useful in some builds, and, Way of the Hundred Fists is pretty much useless everywhere except for the synergy of Fists of Fury with the Breath of Heaven spirit generation rune (and FoT/Quickening is still better with a reasonable crit chance).

    It's clear that they really want to make FoT the best choice for both single-target damage and spirit generation. But that doesn't leave much of a niche for the other generators. WoTHF in particular needs some love, it's slow (relative to the other generators, still faster than a normal attack) and doesn't do anything particularly well. Deadly reach has some utility (the range is handy) in addition to the foresight bonus, and I use it in some of my builds, but it's not something you'd take as your sole spirit generator. I'd like to see it get more range and a little more base damage to give it a more defined role.

  7. #27
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    Re: Monk Reaper of Souls Datamined Skill Changes

    Quote Originally Posted by Athenau View Post
    All spirit generators have some degree of enhanced attack speed. In fact, the first two strikes of deadly reach are faster than Fists of Thunder. It's unlikely they tweaked this.
    Not so, FoT is faster than Deadly Reach, even the tool tip states that FoT is the quickest attack, and I can confirm this from experience.

    [QUOTE]
    The spirit generator changes don't make much sense to me. FoT is already very strong and very popular, it doesn't need a buff.
    Any buff to this skill is welcome, especially now that teleport will be baked into all the runes. It opens a plethora of great possibilities such as Quickening. Imagine teleporting to enemies, building spirit fast, belling them, and teleporting to them to mitigate the bell knock back = beautiful combo. But if you don't use this build you still need spirit for other spirit spending skills. this increase from 6 to 8 will make possible to use spirit spenders even more, making the monk even more fearsome class.

    Deadly reach is pretty much only used for the foresight bonus.
    True, I use it with Combination Strike passive. It's a very valuable skill.

    Way of the Hundred Fists is pretty much useless everywhere except for the synergy of Fists of Fury with the Breath of Heaven spirit generation rune (and FoT/Quickening is still better with a reasonable crit chance).
    It's clear that they really want to make FoT the best choice for both single-target damage and spirit generation. But that doesn't leave much of a niche for the other generators. WoTHF in particular needs some love, it's slow (relative to the other generators, still faster than a normal attack) and doesn't do anything particularly well. Deadly reach has some utility (the range is handy) in addition to the foresight bonus, and I use it in some of my builds, but it's not something you'd take as your sole spirit generator. I'd like to see it get more range and a little more base damage to give it a more defined role.
    You're so wrong on this it actually hurts me when I'm reading it. The WoTHF/Blazing Fists is one of the best skills monk has. It is essential in my build. It increases attack speed up to 15% and with Thunderclap's teleport you're constantly fighting an enemy and attacking 15% faster thus generating more spirit and spawning more tornadoes from SW. In combination with Deadly Reach as mentioned earlier with Combination Strike it give me constant dps and overall a much higher damage dealt than you would have had from Breath of Heaven/Blazing Wrath and Blinding Flash/FitL combined ever could. I don't want to sound cocky or anything but the build I created is the best build in the game by far and I've been playing monk since the start.

    I'm looking forward to the skill changes for the monk in the RoS. Many of monk's passives still are lackluster and we do have fewer passives than other classes do. Barb has 16, DH with Wiz and WD have 15, and monk has 14 passives. (NO FAIR!!!). I'm also curious how are they addressing OWE passive.

  8. #28
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    Re: Monk Reaper of Souls Datamined Skill Changes

    Quote Originally Posted by PawelGawel View Post
    Not so, FoT is faster than Deadly Reach, even the tool tip states that FoT is the quickest attack, and I can confirm this from experience.
    Please read and understand what I write before replying. I said the _first two_ hits of deadly reach are faster than FoT:

    http://diablo.incgamers.com/forums/s...ds-Redux/page3

    and furthermore _all_ spirit generators have some degree of enhanced attack speed. Which is true. I (and other people) have measured it.

    Any buff to this skill is welcome, especially now that teleport will be baked into all the runes. It opens a plethora of great possibilities such as Quickening. Imagine teleporting to enemies, building spirit fast, belling them, and teleporting to them to mitigate the bell knock back = beautiful combo. But if you don't use this build you still need spirit for other spirit spending skills. this increase from 6 to 8 will make possible to use spirit spenders even more, making the monk even more fearsome class.
    It doesn't need a buff because it's already the strongest generator. I won't complain if it gets buffed anyway, but the other generators need the attention way more.

    The WoTHF/Blazing Fists is one of the best skills monk has. It is essential in my build. It increases attack speed up to 15% and with Thunderclap's teleport you're constantly fighting an enemy and attacking 15% faster thus generating more spirit and spawning more tornadoes from SW. In combination with Deadly Reach as mentioned earlier with Combination Strike it give me constant dps and overall a much higher damage dealt than you would have had from Breath of Heaven/Blazing Wrath and Blinding Flash/FitL combined ever could.
    15% IAS is only marginally more effective than a 15% damage buff alone. IAS only becomes more valuable dps-wise when you have a lot of damage buffs already (because they stack additively). If you're actually using damaging spirit spenders on a regular basis FoT/quickening is by far superior for any decent amount of crit.

    I don't want to sound cocky or anything but the build I created is the best build in the game by far and I've been playing monk since the start.
    Given your ignorance of basic game mechanics I'll take this with a grain of salt.

  9. #29
    IncGamers Site Pal Genocides's Avatar
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    Re: Monk Reaper of Souls Datamined Skill Changes

    I use Blazing Fist atm myself, but that's due to a few things mostly gear related. First I have over 6 Spirit per second from gear and second I have 36% increased WotHF damage. If could afford it that gear would be Fist of Thunder damage and I'd be using Quickening or TC. It works fine and I do MP10 so why bother changing now. It was an experiment I stuck with and it works. I think that with the 8 spirit per 'strike' on WotHF as opposed to 6 on FoT and the AS helps some to negate the difference between the two, but I still concede FoT to be unfortunately superior.

    Which is why I don't understand the increase in spirit per strike decrease for WotHF and increase for FoT on top of the FoT damage increase...

    UNLESS the second strike in WotHF is not damage split between enemies and is instead also 140% weapon damage.

  10. #30
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    Re: Monk Reaper of Souls Datamined Skill Changes

    Quote Originally Posted by Athenau View Post
    Please read and understand what I write before replying.
    You're accusing me of this yet you're apparently doing the same thing because you said:

    15% IAS is only marginally more effective than a 15% damage buff alone. IAS only becomes more valuable dps-wise when you have a lot of damage buffs already (because they stack additively). If you're actually using damaging spirit spenders on a regular basis FoT/quickening is by far superior for any decent amount of crit.
    when I said:

    The WoTHF/Blazing Fists is one of the best skills monk has. It is essential in my build. It increases attack speed up to 15% and with Thunderclap's teleport you're constantly fighting an enemy and attacking 15% faster thus generating more spirit and spawning more tornadoes from SW. In combination with Deadly Reach as mentioned earlier with Combination Strike it give me constant dps and overall a much higher damage dealt than you would have had from Breath of Heaven/Blazing Wrath and Blinding Flash/FitL combined ever could.
    Please note the fact that WotHF/Blazing Fists is not used by itself but in combination with other buffs. So please read and understand before you comment in the way you did. Actually 15% buff from Blazing Wrath is not marginally worse than Blazing Fists, it is actually much better in itself. But as you have said about Blazing Fists
    IAS only becomes more valuable dps-wise when you have a lot of damage buffs already (because they stack additively).
    So now you actually are admitting that I was exactly correct in pointing out that there is a very good use of the skill than what you've stated:

    Way of the Hundred Fists is pretty much useless everywhere except for the synergy of Fists of Fury with the Breath of Heaven spirit generation rune
    Per you saying:
    Given your ignorance of basic game mechanics I'll take this with a grain of salt.
    I think I will do the same with you. I'm not looking to get into uncivil arguments here. I'm here for a nice and constructive discussion. I liked the way this community is operating and I decided to join it. Notice that my previous post was my 1st post. Let's keep this discussion on a high level. I recommend to all to go to d3up.com. I'm sure many of you are familiar with the site. If not it's definitely worth checking out. That's where I can test many mods of the builds and see how things will work before I test the build in the game itself.

    You can see my monk here with his current gear: http://www.diabloprogress.com/hero/p...Pawel/13893265

    Please don't hit update. At the moment I'm leveling my DH with my monk gear.
    Last edited by PawelGawel; 10-10-2013 at 18:50.

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