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  1. #11
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    Re: D3X Level 70? New Wiz Skills?

    Quote Originally Posted by Flux View Post
    I like the idea of that. Not sure about the particulars, but I like the idea of skills that actually change the build and play style. Not just another color of damage, as so many of them are now.
    Thanks. I'm working on a comprehensive list of skill rune changes (at least one rune per skill for all 5 classes). My friends IRL are helping me figure out what effects would work best for each class, but the overall idea is to keep the main idea of the spell, but change the functionality and play style. Do you know how I would put that into a forum? I've lurked for the last 5 years, but I don't really do much on internet forums, and I am unsure how to create a new thread, or where would be best to put it.

    To give you an idea of what kind of stuff I'm trying to do, I'll put a few examples below, and the flavor of the skills.

    Magic Weapon-Bladestorm (adapted from Brother Laz' D2 mod "Median XL"): Summon a host of blades that increase your weapon damage by 10%. In addition, In addition, the bladestorm seeks out nearby enemies, dealing 15% weapon damage per hit. This skill, adapted from Brother Laz' Median XL, summons literal Magic Weapons to help you fight.

    Disintegrate-Finger of Death: Changes Disintegrate from a beam into a single-target, targeted attack dealing an extreme amount of damage per second (for practical purposes let's say 500-600%). For this skill, you keep the idea of disintegrating your target, but decide to focus on one enemy in particular in order to more quickly erase him from existence.

    Corpse Spiders-Host to Many: Enemies dealt damage to by the spiders take 15% weapon damage as poison for 3 seconds. If the enemy is killed before the duration ends, the enemy explodes into 3 new spiders. These spiders deal 60% weapon damage as physical. This Witch Doctor skill focuses on maintaining the fantasy of controlling a horrific swarm of spiders. The spiders you do control infect the demons with their young, and when the demons die, the baby spiders explode out of their corpses and continue the swarm for you.

    Frenzy-Berserker Rage: At 5 stacks of frenzy, your damage increases by 30% and your attack speed increases additionally by 50%. You cannot use other skills while your frenzy is at 5 stacks. This Barbarian skill grants you insane extra damage and attack speed (with the 5 frenzy stacks, it is 30% increased damage and 125% faster attack speed altogether), but stops you from using any other skills, either offense or defense. You must either continue attacking furiously like a berserker, or run away and perform no actions until the frenzy stacks go away and the berserker rage wears off.

    Call of the Ancients-Like Father, Like Son: While the ancients fight alongside you, you have infinite fury and your abilities have no cooldowns. As a Barbarian, The Ancients are your greatest cultural paragons, and while they fight alongside you, you feel their unbridled heroism and might pushing you beyond all natural limits, even for a Nephalem. In my personal opinion, of all of the skills that Blizzard debuted before the game came out, I was most excited to play with Call of the Ancients and Archon Form. Archon Form lived up to my imagination; Call of the Ancients did not. I feel that as is, the skill is complete garbage, and does not even really provide a sense of what a Barbarian would feel like while fighting alongside his/her most legendary ancestors. This skill rune would be meant to provide a real sense of what that would be like, and I think that Call of the Ancients should receive a large buff on its own.

    These kinds of skill runes were really what I was hoping to get out of Diablo III in the first place, and I want to post the list (when it's ready) onto the D3 forums. In a few days I'll post the whole list here, so that if anyone has any good ideas, they can add them to the list. In particular, ideas like Palandus's Magic Missile rune that turns the missile into a mini-arcane explosion are the most welcomed.

    Edit: right after posting this I had another idea. How about a passive that allows the wizard to exchange blood for more power. Similar to glass canon where the wizard sacrifices their defenses for more power, but instead this passive will render the wizard unlimited arcane power in exchange for blood. It's kind of treading on witch territory rather than wizards though... I'm thinking something like replenishing your AP pool in exchange for 25% of your health pool. This is something that only the most powerful wizards can harness as it would bring weaker wizards closer to death. The numbers would need tweaking and without significant eHP or sustain the wizard would eventually be extinguished.
    Ironically, one of my Wizard runes was basically this exactly. I'll put it below:

    Energy Armor-Blood Mage's Blessing: Instead of decreasing your max AP, Energy Armor reduces your Max Health by 20%. While Energy Armor is active, you gain 5 addition AP per second, and your damage is increased by 20%.

    The idea was basically exactly what you posted tougeznut: a lesser wizard pays Arcane Power to protect his/her life; a REAL wizard pays his/her life to increase his/her power! Also, great idea about the area around the Wizard warping when using Arcane skills. I would probably drool at the screen when reality started to warp when I cast my spells. You really get what sets the Wizard apart from the Sorcerer/Sorceress: they're using established spells to cause normal effects; you, on the other hand, are playing fast and loose with the rules of reality in a devil-may-care bid to boost your power and wipe out the demon scourge! I agree; we had the elemental mage in D2, so now we should get the unstable, pure-and-dangerous magic-wielding Wizard in D3.
    Last edited by Disciple of Erebos; 04-09-2013 at 15:01.

  2. #12
    IncGamers Member clueso's Avatar
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    Re: D3X Level 70? New Wiz Skills?

    Broom Ride –put out a broom on which you fly over the battlefield for x seconds
    Starfall –let it rain down stars over the whole screen

  3. #13
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    Re: D3X Level 70? New Wiz Skills?

    Overdue thread...

    I've got >1200 hours into a wizard, and a few broad changes I'd like to see:

    1. Get rid of CM/freeze. Yes, I use it, and it makes meteor fun when everything is frozen and you can always hit, but it's gimmicky. But see #2 below...
    2. A wizard should be able to destroy stuff at range. Currently the game doesn't make this viable, because the monsters are very fast and wizard damage is relatively low, so CM/freeze is the only way to stay alive long enough to do serious damage through meteor or other slow but powerful skills. Going toe to toe with everything and freezing the pack is very effective, but not very wizard-y.
    3. Lose archon. If the core skills do a lot of damage, there's no reason to go into another cooldown-dependent mode. Cooldowns hurt the pace of the game, which is why nearly everyone uses CM and stacks crit chance.
    4. Make some of the signature skills (e.g. chain lightning, lightning, etc.) available in an arcane-power-consuming form that does significant damage. These are visually striking skills that most people can't be bothered to use because they do insignificant damage, but they should be the hallmarks of a wizard in classic Dungeons & Dragons style.

  4. #14
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    Re: D3X Level 70? New Wiz Skills?

    Quote Originally Posted by Palandus View Post
    As for new Wizard skills, how about we take some of our favorites from Diablo 2 Sorceress? ie:

    Inferno = Cast forth a line of fire burning all foes caught by it.
    Frozen Orb = Release an orb of energy that spits out frost bolts as it travels to its destination.
    Chain Lightning = Fire a bolt of lightning that jumps to nearby enemies.
    Static Field = Enemy loses 25% of its health.

    Or, alternatively, take some ideas from Dungeons and Dragons for the Wizard class:

    Fireball = Throw a ball of fire at an area and when it reaches its target it explodes violently.
    Dominate Monster = Force a monster to fight by your side
    Summon Monster = Summon an outsider (ie Demon) to fight by your side for a limited amount of time.
    Feeblemind = Make a monster dumber than a dodo bird.
    Polymorph = Transform a creature into another creature that is usually harmless. Like sheep.
    Polymorph (Self) = Transform yourself into some other kind of creature. Usually something bigger and nastier, like a Winged Molok.
    Cone of Cold = Project a magical cone of ice in front of you
    Displacement = Make your form extremely hard to pinpoint making it very hard to be hit.
    Invisibility = Make yourself invisible. Attacking or casting another spell breaks invisibility. Quafing a potion does not.
    Expeditious Retreat = Run very very fast.
    Flight = Make for the skies and fly around the battlefield. Even fly over ditches and rivers!
    Dispel Magic = Remove a magical effect from your opponent
    Antimagic Field = Prevent spells and effects from occuring in this field. Includes your spells, most monster effects, and elite affixes (ie frozen). Great place for your melee-oriented friends to camp out in relative safety!
    Fireball was kind of the staple in D&D/AD&D -- Azmodan uses one, so should be doable, but hopefully much faster than his.

    Chain lightning is already in D3.

  5. #15
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    Re: D3X Level 70? New Wiz Skills?

    Quote Originally Posted by jonw View Post
    Overdue thread...

    I've got >1200 hours into a wizard, and a few broad changes I'd like to see:

    1. Get rid of CM/freeze. Yes, I use it, and it makes meteor fun when everything is frozen and you can always hit, but it's gimmicky. But see #2 below...
    2. A wizard should be able to destroy stuff at range. Currently the game doesn't make this viable, because the monsters are very fast and wizard damage is relatively low, so CM/freeze is the only way to stay alive long enough to do serious damage through meteor or other slow but powerful skills. Going toe to toe with everything and freezing the pack is very effective, but not very wizard-y.
    3. Lose archon. If the core skills do a lot of damage, there's no reason to go into another cooldown-dependent mode. Cooldowns hurt the pace of the game, which is why nearly everyone uses CM and stacks crit chance.
    4. Make some of the signature skills (e.g. chain lightning, lightning, etc.) available in an arcane-power-consuming form that does significant damage. These are visually striking skills that most people can't be bothered to use because they do insignificant damage, but they should be the hallmarks of a wizard in classic Dungeons & Dragons style.
    Speaking as a fellow Wizard player (roughly 400 hours, paragon 61) I completely agree that CM has to go. Freezing stuff is ok; however, once you start freezing everything forever, it becomes a gimmicky cheese-fest. In addition, there are a bunch of cool things to do with skills, especially cooldown skills, that can't really be done with CM a thing. Things with high cooldowns should do incredible things, and right now, even if Blizzard wants to make some kind of incredible skill with a long cooldown, everyone knows that they can't because CM makes a 2 minute cooldown a 20 second cooldown or shorter.

    Also agree with #2. That said, I also think that the battlemage (melee Wizard) should be able to be a thing. Currently, there aren't any real melee Wizards (CM is, but that doesn't count because the whole thing is an invulnerability cheese-build). That said, skills like Arcane Orb need several large buffs.

    As for losing Archon form, I don't really agree with this. I feel that Archon form is a very evocative skill; the effect feels right. That said, I think that Blizzard should remodel Archon form; currently, there are only 3 abilities: one is Disintegrate with a cooler look, one is an instant-speed Explosive Blast, and one is a basic attack which is weak and deals half as much damage as Disintegrate, so nobody ever uses it. First of all, I think that Archon form should have all-new skills, rather than re-skins of old skills. Second, I think that if a basic attack makes it on the list, then it should deal by far the most weapon damage, because unlike the others, it is not AoE, and it requires getting up close and personal with enemies, something that Wizards, especially in Archon form, generally don't want to do. Lastly, I feel like Archon form should have at least 1 defensive skill; even the skill runes don't really add that (Slow Time generally doesn't do enough to defend people, thus why nobody uses it, and Teleport can be used defensively, but at face value it doesn't actually help you defend). Archon form is a good idea, but I think that it was executed badly.

    4. Probably a good idea. We've seen other classes with skills like that (DH Preparation turning into a Hatred Regenerator that costs Discipline instead of a Discipline Regenerator on a cooldown), so it could work to have one rune per signature skill that makes them more damaging, in exchange for costing AP. That said, I think that if there were runes that did that, they should add some additional play effect other than just more damage; a lot of runes already just add more damage or a slightly faster slow, and these runes are basically really boring. I think that a lot of these runes should be scrapped, with new, game-changing runes added in their place. If these game-changing runes also add better damage, great. But damage alone shouldn't be the impetus of a whole rune effect; I feel that that is just lazy design.

    Building upon that idea of new runes, everyone here seems to have a lot of really good ideas. I created a new thread for brainstorming new rune ideas for all 5 classes, so if you have any good ideas, it would be great if you could post them there. Here's the link:

    http://diablo.incgamers.com/forums/s...torming-Thread

    I've already gotten a bunch of new rune ideas from seeing just a few suggestions from people in this thread, and in others like it for the different classes. I'd be especially happy if people who play DH or Monk could post, because I've never played them and I don't have many good ideas for improving their runes.

  6. #16
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    Re: D3X Level 70? New Wiz Skills?

    I like a lot of the rune ideas here and in the other thread, but I really think that the issue with Wizards is even bigger than their assortment of lackluster runes. I mean no disrespect to the effort anyone put in to thinking and transcribing their rune and skill ideas. I too like my CM Wizard, and I too never felt like a Wizard since switching to it. The problem with ditching CM is that a ton of skills suddenly become even less useful than we think.

    Go fire up D3 with your Wizard and drop CM. Pick any 5 skills you want, then take Frost Nova. See how effective it is in Hell+ until you're over-geared. If you've uninstalled, simply count seven and a half seconds - that's minimum amount of time it takes for Frost Nova to be available for reuse without CM - and imagine what could go wrong in that time. With the game as it is now, the ability would have to be some kind of absurdly powerful to be effective in a battle, it would be of limited use in any skirmish after it was used, and you'd better not miss a dangerous enemy as you're down to the other five skills for at minimum seven and a half seconds. One would have to take additional defense options to stagger with Frost Nova to have some means of defense available at all times.

    I could go through a number of skills that are in the same boat (Wave of Force, Diamond Skin). The problem isn't CM, CM is the overpowered fix. The problem is that cooldowns are the real resource, not Arcane Power, and certainly not player ability.

    Using some other method of controlling how often players get to use powerful skills such as Arcane Power costs, or having some form of a drawback, one can fix Wizard skills and gameplay without actually touching CM. All the skill ideas are nice, but I am pretty certain that there'll be more of the same problems without this fix, even if Blizzard implemented a lot of the skill rune ideas themselves.

  7. #17
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    Re: D3X Level 70? New Wiz Skills?

    Perhaps a way to fix the problem that MindGeyser pointed out would be to have each class be able to 'brute-force' cooldowns by paying extra resource to cast the spell again while it is on CD. For example, for the Frost Nova (now to be abbreviated as FN), currently FN doesn't cost any AP, and has a 12 second CD. For my idea, say if FN was on CD and you wanted to cast it anyway, you could pay 30-35 AP to cast the spell even though it was on CD. 30-35 AP is a high amount, so you couldn't just spam FN without CM, but it's low enough that if you were in a bad spot and really needed it, you could brute-force the spell.

    That said, there are (at least) two problems with the system I just developed: 1) does brute-forcing the spell start a new CD, or does it just cost AP, and let the old CD expire? 2) How do you balance this for all the classes? It's pretty unfair to design the Wizard as a class that fundamentally doesn't have to pay attention to cooldowns, so other classes need to have a similar means of brute-forcing their spells. This also gets into the question of, if the way to brute-force spells is tied to the resource pool, how do you do it for the other classes, as their resources differ from the Wizard's (and, with the exception of the Witch Doctor, do not regenerate on their own).

    That said, even with just the new skill options I presented, there are a few ways of getting around this problem. You could make a Frost Wizard; the new Ice Armor rune I made deals cold damage to enemies close to you and gives cold damage from other skills a 25% chance to freeze those enemies for 1 second. You combine this with Ray of Frost-Sleet Storm, to deal damage to enemies in melee range, with a high chance of freezing. Frost Familiar gives you another source of cold damage, and Blizzard finishes the cold combo with the rune that has an extra chance to freeze. Ice Armor (a change I suggested was changing the base skill to have a 30 second CD, then giving it a Diamond Skin-like ability to protect yourself by covering yourself in ice) and Diamond Skin give you protection, along with the Blur passive. Spectral Blade's AP per hit rune lets you quickly recharge AP to fuel the combo. If you have a frost damage weapon, it even helps keep stuff frozen.

    Another possible way is the 'Get-away-from-me' Wizard: use the Blizzard rune Hoarfrost (makes Blizzard act like Baal's Hoarfrost attack from D2) to keep enemies away, then use Explosive Blast-Cataclysm to target an area, trapping the enemies inside that area for 3 seconds when the explosion detonates. Either of two new Familiars are good for this build: the Spectral Guardian, which tanks for you, or the Fire Elemental, which shoots fireballs that knock enemies back. Since the Explosive Blast traps enemies inside a 12 yard area, this seems like a perfect place to use Meteor; use whichever suits your personal preference. At this point, with two skills left, you have some leeway. You could pick a Signature skill with the AP on hit rune, or, if you have enough AP on Crit to last, you could go for more offense power, or a utility spell. To go dangerously, you could take the new Energy Armor rune that sacrifices Max Life for 5 more AP per second (for a total of 13 per second) and 20% increased damage. Whatever your fifth skill is, the last should be defensive in order to outlast situations that you can't control (like Shielding packs or Teleporters).

    With these two builds at least (and others like them possible if you think them up), I think that new runes like this could make the Wizard more competitive even without CM and significant changes to the Wizard's cooldowns. That said, I do agree with you that this is a problem for Wizards, far more so than for the other classes. However, I believe that the majority of the problem could probably be resolved simply by retuning the Wizard's cooldowns and numbers. For example, Diamond Skin now prevents about 10,000 damage and lasts 6 seconds. This is far too little, and so nobody uses the other runes, instead using the one that prevents 20,000 instead. So, if Blizzard changed the skill so that 20,000 was the base skill, and that the other skill increased it to 40,000 (with the rune increasing the length also increasing the blocked damage to, say, 30,000, since extra length by itself is basically useless), then the skill would probably be fine even without a change of cooldown.

    One final, alternate idea, would be a synergy system based on the skill archetypes. For example, Frost synergies, Fire synergies, Lightning synergies, and Arcane synergies for the Wizard (different synergies for different classes, of course). These synergies would be little buffs that reward you for playing with a bunch of skills with the same type. For example, the Frost synergy could be something like "whenever you cast a frost skill, prevent the next 1000 damage dealt to you." This way, by stacking up frost skills, you could build up a good protection for yourself. The wording would have to be changed from my wording, cause right now that would give you infinite prevented damage from casting Blizzard in town, but you get the idea. The other synergies could be something similar: fire spells give you back a bit of life (casting fire spells warms your blood), Lightning spells deal extra damage/enemies around you take extra lightning damage (the air around you becomes supercharged with electricity), and Arcane spells give you a decent chance to dodge hits (your body starts becoming ethereal, due to large amounts of pure magic channeled, so enemy attacks have a chance to just pass through you). Things like this could also work to help mitigate the problem of needing spells that are on CD and not having them.

    Ultimately, though, you're right that one way or another, there's a problem here. Personally, I think that cooldowns on their own are fine, but that they should be a little shorter than they are, or that their cooldowns should scale with difficulty or with level, as the scenario that you have presented is basically active at all times. Thankfully, Blizzard seems to have noticed the problem as well, as Cooldown Reduction % is becoming a new modifier in the game when pre-release patch/Expansion hits (not sure which one the CDR modifier will be in). We know for sure that Paragon Points can be spent to increase CDR, that CDR can spawn as an affix on items (not sure which items yet, though) and lastly that the new gem, the Diamond, grants CDR when placed in the helm. We still don't know numbers yet (though the Paragon Points CDR looked like it was .2% per point, so 10% after 50 Paragon Points spent in it), but the CDR affix may help this issue greatly, especially if we can get into the higher CDR numbers, such as getting up to 40-50% with high-level Diamonds in the helm. As a result, depending on how the CDR numbers look (especially on high-level Diamonds), Blizzard may have found the cure to the issue of cooldowns, or they may have screwed it up again and provided hundreds more hours of forum rage. At this point, only time will tell.

  8. #18
    IncGamers Member Speedster's Avatar
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    Re: D3X Level 70? New Wiz Skills?

    Quote Originally Posted by MindGeyser View Post
    ...I could go through a number of skills that are in the same boat (Wave of Force, Diamond Skin). The problem isn't CM, CM is the overpowered fix. The problem is that cooldowns are the real resource, not Arcane Power, and certainly not player ability.

    Using some other method of controlling how often players get to use powerful skills such as Arcane Power costs, or having some form of a drawback, one can fix Wizard skills and gameplay without actually touching CM. All the skill ideas are nice, but I am pretty certain that there'll be more of the same problems without this fix, even if Blizzard implemented a lot of the skill rune ideas themselves.
    Sort of agree, although player ability actually is important if you're not playing an endless CM/freeze wizard. Wave of Force could be a great skill... if you could use it in Inferno without waiting so long. So, yes, cooldowns are the problem.

    I think, I hope, that the more powerful weapons that were teased in the RoS preview will alleviate this a bit. By that I mean that all of the freezing and armor discussion is about how not to die when surrounded. I'd like to see a continual ability to inflict significant ranged damage rather than obsessing over crowd control.

    Quote Originally Posted by Disciple of Erebos View Post
    ...Ultimately, though, you're right that one way or another, there's a problem here. Personally, I think that cooldowns on their own are fine, but that they should be a little shorter than they are, or that their cooldowns should scale with difficulty or with level, as the scenario that you have presented is basically active at all times. Thankfully, Blizzard seems to have noticed the problem as well, as Cooldown Reduction % is becoming a new modifier in the game when pre-release patch/Expansion hits (not sure which one the CDR modifier will be in). We know for sure that Paragon Points can be spent to increase CDR, that CDR can spawn as an affix on items (not sure which items yet, though) and lastly that the new gem, the Diamond, grants CDR when placed in the helm. We still don't know numbers yet (though the Paragon Points CDR looked like it was .2% per point, so 10% after 50 Paragon Points spent in it), but the CDR affix may help this issue greatly, especially if we can get into the higher CDR numbers, such as getting up to 40-50% with high-level Diamonds in the helm. As a result, depending on how the CDR numbers look (especially on high-level Diamonds), Blizzard may have found the cure to the issue of cooldowns, or they may have screwed it up again and provided hundreds more hours of forum rage. At this point, only time will tell.
    CDR would certainly help. Or just reduce the cooldowns in the next patch. I think the wizard is on the cusp of being an epic class, but they neutered it with cooldowns and weak signature spells. The gameplay could be amazing.

  9. #19
    IncGamers Member Wolfpaq777's Avatar
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    Re: D3X Level 70? New Wiz Skills?

    Well one thing that really stuck out to me in some of the first xpac gear screens is the emergence of % cooldown reduction on gear.

    I believe we saw 4% on one piece of gear? Multiply that by the gear slot count and you're looking at 50%+ from gear alone if you focus on stacking it. 4% probably isn't even a perfect roll (hopefully?).

    Then... take the 15% reduction passive. Then... use the source that subtracts 4 seconds from the teleport cooldown. Does this apply before or after the percentage? Let's assume worst case and assume before. 16 - 4 * .3 = 3.6 second cooldown. Take wormhole critical mass and storm armor and maybe you'll crit some guys as you fly by?

    I wonder if we'll get cooldown reduction as part of paragon 2.0

    Your dream just might come true!

  10. #20
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    Re: D3X Level 70? New Wiz Skills?

    I think that it probably makes sense to cap CDR at 40%, the way League of Legends does. Under 40% seems underpowered and uninspired; we have passive skills that reduce cooldowns by 15-20%, so having a cap at 25-30% seems only a little better than a passive skill for all of the work that you need to do to get it. On the other hand, more than 40% (45-50% at the very most) opens the way to abuses, especially if if that 45-50% CDR stacks with the CDR from passive skills. For example, 50% reduces the CD of Wizard skill Frost Nova from 12 seconds to 6 seconds; since the freeze duration is 4 seconds, this really means that Frost Nova only has a CD of 2 seconds. Not only that, there is currently a rune for Frost Nova that decreases the CD from 12 seconds to 9 seconds; using this, half of 9 seconds is 4.5 seconds, so with 50% CDR Frost Nova's effective CD would be only .5 seconds. This is obviously too good; CM Wizard is explicitly being nerfed, and I doubt that they would nerf CM Wizard, only to make that kind of abuse almost as easy, and available not just to the Wizard, but to all 6 classes! Therefore, I think that 40% CDR cap makes sense: it provides enough of a benefit that your skills go off noticeably faster and are much more useful, but does not break the game the way that more that 40% CDR has the potential to do.

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