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  1. #1
    IncGamers Member Clavdivs's Avatar
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    Inferno Runes(TM)

    I, Tiberius Claudius Caesar Augustus Germanicus, The God, have decided to repeat one of relatively easy way of improving the gameplay, posted by The God himself on another site, roughly a year ago.

    Divine being declares that D3 is unfortunately designed as two-in-one game:
    I - Leveling game, which is consisting of progressing and gradually gaining more powerful skills/runes and consists of Normal/Nightmare/Hell
    II - Inferno, where everything but most powerful combinations is next to useless

    One runeslot is more unusable than any other - namely "No Rune" slot - nobody sane will play Inferno without rune selected.

    Divine proposition was that, as soon as Inferno is selected, "No Rune" is replaced with "Inferno rune"(TM).

    Since "Inferno Rune"(TM) is not available on lower difficulties, there is no threat that it will endanger leveling phase.

    "Inferno Rune"(TM) should NOT be overpowered compared to others, but of similar power with most used ones. It can also complement something (eg. elemental damage) which is badly missing for a skill/class (eg. fire-based for Wizard). In any case, purpose of this rune is to increase diversity of builds, not to "just increase overall DPS more and be selected in all instances".

    Divine being considers this as a band-aid until skill/rune system is fixed, but infinite heavenly wisdom made proposition far better than current Blizzard band-aids, who are currently all wearing out, unlike this one, meant for eternity.

    Heavenly being doesn't consider skill/rune problem solved by this simple intervention - all skills/runes should be made useful for certain situations, or certain opponents - at least to some extent.

    I, Clavdivs, The God, allow discussion of divine proposition, as well as real-life ideas and examples!

  2. #2
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    Re: Inferno Runes(TM)

    Not sure how this is going to solve anything

    Either the rune will be:

    1) Worse than the dominant rune/skill currently used, and thus not used
    2) As good as the dominant rune/skill currently used, and thus used somewhat
    3) Better than the dominant rune/skill currently used, and thus always used

    More content / choice is better than less content / choice, but this is the band-aid-iest of band-aids. May as well add 500 more skills and runes to every class; the balance problem will still persist unless they are all balanced.

  3. #3
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    Re: Inferno Runes(TM)

    So...essentially The God wants a 6th rune added? How bout we first get them to have, say, at least 2 truly useful/balanced runes per skill first. If there's anywhere to start, that baby-steps goal would be it.

    (Though I've generally been impressed with how much and how often they made major patches over the first year, I'm very disappointed that they've been so slow and timid with the balancing changes. Some of the weaker runes would just take some easy number tweaking to make them relevant, I don't get why they don't just DO it already. At this point I'd take even something as stupidly simple as "look at the stats of the dozen least used runes and then DOUBLE it".)

  4. #4
    IncGamers Member sunflowersmooth's Avatar
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    Re: Inferno Runes(TM)

    I've always questioned the reason behind "no rune"

  5. #5
    IncGamers Site Pal koko's Avatar
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    Re: Inferno Runes(TM)

    They could give a MF/GF/XP bonus for each no rune selected.

  6. #6
    IncGamers Member Dogbert's Avatar
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    Re: Inferno Runes(TM)

    I Dogbert of the kingdom of Sweden like this idea coming from the God Tiberius Claudius Caesar Augustus Germanicus. A rune that adds elemental damage wouldn't hurt. Since everyone is using runes on inferno the choice of no rune becomes irrelevant and could easily be replaced by the "Inferno Rune"(TM)

    Quote Originally Posted by Ivan E View Post
    Not sure how this is going to solve anything

    Either the rune will be:

    1) Worse than the dominant rune/skill currently used, and thus not used
    2) As good as the dominant rune/skill currently used, and thus used somewhat
    3) Better than the dominant rune/skill currently used, and thus always used

    More content / choice is better than less content / choice, but this is the band-aid-iest of band-aids. May as well add 500 more skills and runes to every class; the balance problem will still persist unless they are all balanced.
    There is also a 4) Equally good as the dominant rune/skill. Remember in Poe we have 1350 skills to choose from. In D3 we have only 5. It should not be impossible to balance the runes. Also it is the will of the God that this becomes real
    Last edited by Dogbert; 19-08-2013 at 14:34.

  7. #7
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    Re: Inferno Runes(TM)

    Quote Originally Posted by Dogbert View Post
    There is also a 4) Equally good as the dominant rune/skill.
    That was actually his #2....

  8. #8

    Re: Inferno Runes(TM)

    What about just using that slot to "link" a rune, or allow for the use of 2 simultaneous rune effects for a skill? Just have each skill unlock with the first rune active immediately and save the linked rune slot for level 60.

  9. #9
    IncGamers Member Clavdivs's Avatar
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    Re: Inferno Runes(TM)

    The God stated this measure to be a band aid, but disagrees with degrading to "bandaidest". The divine being, of course, doesn't consider proposed solution as final - which, of course, would be making all runes similar in power or at least circumstantial, but this is easiest to implement (meaning: could be done in a patch), cause it deals with existing and already reserved spot actually used by engine - only replacement of value and adding "Infer" before "No Rune" is needed, and effect could be virtually anything already existing, so minimal resources are needed. Example:

    I Current situation:
    ------------------
    Familiar - Sparkflint is used almost exclusively, due to 12% dps bonus that other runes lack

    II Divine band-aid
    -----------------
    Familiar - Inferno Lifespark rune - gives 8% dps bonus + 1.5% life steal

    (numbers are based on comparison of Energy Weapon runes, where 1.5% life steal overweights or equals 5% (third) dps)

    The expected result is that Lifespark become similarly used and alternative to Sparkflint. Players who opt to go for 1.5% life steal instead +5% dps for Energy weapon can increase life steal battery further. Players may use different combinations of two runes - new rune is expected to have at least some viability. The numbers can change, of course, or effect (perhaps 3% stun instead) but full domination of Lifespart should be broken.

    III Ideal solution
    ----------------
    - DPS bonus is completely removed from Sparkflint and replaced with other effect (perhaps a life steal, in sufficient quantity). All other rune effects are increased greatly (up to several times, in order skill to be viable). This effectively removes Familiar usage as +dps% buff and establishes healthy skill with multiple useful effects to be chosen from. (Alternatively, DPS bonus is added to other Familiar runes.)
    - Energy weapon effects other than +5% dps and +1.5% life steal are increased to allow all to be similarly viable. (Alternatively, if dps bonus is removed from Familiar, the Energy Weapon dps bonus is increased)
    - This enables Familiar to be 'dps-free' spell, chosen for a desired effect, instead of just dps buff - no matter if Energy Weapon bonus is increased or not. The Wizard class uses just one skill for dps buffing (increased or not) instead of two, allowing greater build diversity

    The same can be done with almost every skill, though divine being chosen one which is an extremely good example, mainly because Blizzard opted to make some runes effects vastly superior to others. Inferno runes(TM) would basically be modification of existing most popular runes, with effect changed to an extent - therefore they are band-aid indeed.

    Ideal solution, such as in case III, needs extensive beta-testing and balancing and must be done on PTR. The God can't think of a good reason how the game got out of the beta at all, such lack of diversity should have been noted then, fixed, retested and perhaps released to public after. Blizzard is ignoring even the easiest to spot disbalances, such as Sparkflint, and avoids even trying to fix them, so The God proposed this band-aid.

    Completely new rune for each skill is a good option for expanding, but currently each class suffers from huge internal disbalance, which is key for build variance, both skills and runes need to be more close in efficiency. I, Clavdivs, The God declare that only when this process is done, we can have an internally balanced classes with enough diversity.
    Last edited by Clavdivs; 19-08-2013 at 18:19.

  10. #10
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    Re: Inferno Runes(TM)

    But again - why essentially create a 6th rune instead of fixing all the existing useless runes? Familiar already has 4 nearly-unused runes. Fix those before trying to add new stuff!

    (Though Familiar is kind of a bad example IMO. I hate the "Active" Skills that are really just dull Passive bonuses and 4 of Familiar's runes are exactly that. If it were up to me skills like Familiar would be entirely reworked to be actually active and not just boring passive bonuses. See also: Magic Weapon and all the Wiz Armors.)

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