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  1. #1
    Administrator Flux's Avatar
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    Do you miss breakpoints?

    Making a post in this other thread, I started thinking about what attributes do, and what else they might do (to make non-mainstats more attractive). And that led me to thinking about D2 stats like faster cast rate, blocking speed, and hit recovery, that all had breakpoints.

    If you didn't play D2, the issue was that the game was 2D and displayed things at a set speed of 25 frames per second, and thus events had to occupy a discrete number of frames. So you needed to get a certain amount of faster whatever for it to actually make a difference, and these bonuses always came with diminishing returns. For example, a sorceress' default casting speed was 13, and to cut off a frame she needed to add, 9, 20, 37, 63, 105, and 200 FCR to reach the max 7 frame casting speed. Thus you'd look at your build and if you were at 40 FCR, you knew you needed 23 more to make a difference, but that once you got to 63% you had to jump all the way to 105 to improve, thus there was no reason to tack on just another 20 or 30% at that point.

    There's an explanation and giant tables showing breakpoints for everything in the diablo 2 wiki.
    http://diablo2.diablowiki.net/Breakpoints

    We don't have breakpoints in 3D games like D3 since movements can just be sped up. Thus skills and item bonuses and such all just say "4% faster attack" or whatever. And that's what they do. You don't need math or breakpoints or whatever, and there's even a big green number to spur you on.

    That said, does anyone miss breakpoints? They were an artifact of 2D technology, but perhaps they were fun also? In D3 a lot of things are just "want moar." You want more ias, more mainstat, more cc, more cd, etc. And adding more does improve your performance, but breakpoints gave a sort of mini-goal to the equipment game. Instead of everything just making X slightly better in D3, what if you knew you needed 18% more IAS to make a clear difference? Every expert player in D2 planned their build to reach certain breakpoints, and we juggled gear extensively when we needed just 5% more FHR since that 5% would make a big difference.

    I can't see that ever coming back in D3, and I'm not really suggesting it. But I like the idea of mini-goals within the item game, and special small bonuses.

    So how about a hybrid system? Instead of breakpoints, what if every 10% more in X gave you a slightly bigger bonus, or some special bonus?
    • What if every 10% in CC added 5% to your CD?
    • What if every 100 in a resistance added 5 to your INT?
    • Or every 50% more Magic Find gave you +5 to your vit?
    • Or if every 50% in Critical hit Damage added 1% more CC?

    If you were sitting at 341% CD, you'd certainly put a bigger value on getting 9% more than you do now, eh?

    Obviously the examples above are just off the top of my head, but imagine this system throughout all the stats and figures. It would give you milestones to aim for and mini-rewards all over the place. Would this be fun? Would anyone care? Would it change anything? Would bliz be able to document it clearly enough for it to pass the "Bashiok's mom" test?
    --Flux
    The Diablo 1, 2, & 3 Wiki! (Under construction.)


  2. #2
    IncGamers Member
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    Re: Do you miss breakpoints?

    No.


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  3. #3
    IncGamers Member
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    Re: Do you miss breakpoints?

    D3 does have breakpoints... but only on the "overpowered" skills, and not any others.

  4. #4
    IncGamers Member
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    Re: Do you miss breakpoints?

    Don't miss them.

    I have no idea how long I played D2 before I understood exactly how they worked, but it was quite some time. I don't know if they were necessary then for some obscure reason or another, but they're not necessary now. They never bothered me that much... but why have some hidden stat like that? I mean, D3's exclusive focus on two stats is a horrible "other extreme", but you don't need to riddle a game with hidden stuff like that just cause.

    As for mini goals, it doesn't seem all that different trying to get 15% (random number) faster attack speed now than it did then. Both are good goals to have. The only difference is now you can reasonably shoot for 13 or 15% as well, or go for 16 and get rewarded for nudging in one more.

    Just makes much more sense in every way.

  5. #5
    IncGamers Member
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    Re: Do you miss breakpoints?

    Yes, but only because it's a step back to Diablo 1, which had an item system that I think Diablo 3 is really missing.

    Having attack-speed breakpoints in D2 will have driven some people to look for particular items; eg you need to find some unique helm with 17% or better FCR, and it normally spawns with 12-19%, so this instantly narrows the range of the items that are useful, and significantly increases the value of a perfect roll. Or, you could juggle your items around: can only get your hands on 12% helm? Well maybe if you change your gloves from X to Y, and your chest armor from Y to Z, you can get the extra cast speed that you wanted, while having to sacrifice something.

    D1 of course had stat caps for the character classes: Warriors had 50 magic max, Sorcs had 45 strength max. This meant that as a Sorc, if you wanted to wear a FPM which required 90 str, you'd be forced to scavenge up +45 str from your gear. Ideally you'd get +20 str from your Zod rings/amulets, but there was a lot of flexibility there too: you could get an Obs/Titan amulet for +30 str and then get an Obs/Wiz ring for +30 magic. This optimization and trade-off was much more interesting (to me) in D1 than anything in D2, especially since you only had body armor, helm, shield, weapon, 2x rings + amulet to play with. In D2 with more item slots there wasn't as much optimization pressure, and with D3 there is even less (even if items still required stats to equip, which they don't).

  6. #6
    IncGamers Member
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    Re: Do you miss breakpoints?

    Break points are confusing. The fact that I played hours and hours of D2 and still had to refer to charts to know them, shows how bad they are. Items should give me the increase it says they do.

  7. #7
    IncGamers Member
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    Re: Do you miss breakpoints?

    I'm surprised this isn't mentioned more often. As said, breakpoints in D2 meant you had to 'juggle' the various pieces of gear for the best effect; you could rarely hit all the bps you wanted so you had to make trade-offs and compromises. In D3 there are no such decisions to be made. There's just... 'Get more of everything' (mostly crit/crit dmg...). Adding bps to D3 won't happen ofc because Blizz couldn't really 'sell' it to people at this ÷oint.

  8. #8
    IncGamers Member
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    Re: Do you miss breakpoints?

    Nope. I dont.

    Not like there arent points where different stats becomes better than others either, such as the interaction between armor, resist and vitality fluctuating in power depending on how much you have of each. Same for CC and CD of course, but for those more always feels like better, so it is kinda mindless.

    As for your hybrid system, I could see something like that in the 'fabled' Talisman. Giving bonuses depending on what stats you focused on, and how much you had of each.
    Since it would be an isolated system - apart from normal gear - it would probably be easier to keep consistent and clear to the player.

  9. #9
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    Re: Do you miss breakpoints?

    Btw if you find breakpoints 'confusing', it's a wonder you haven't been hit by a car while crossing the road. Blizz really needs to stop catering to the 'grannies' out there and re-introduce a learning curve to their games. Confusion is not a thing to be feared but embraced; it's the first stage of learning a new systemor mechanic.

  10. #10
    IncGamers Member
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    Re: Do you miss breakpoints?

    Quote Originally Posted by Greizer View Post
    Btw if you find breakpoints 'confusing', it's a wonder you haven't been hit by a car while crossing the road. Blizz really needs to stop catering to the 'grannies' out there and re-introduce a learning curve to their games. Confusion is not a thing to be feared but embraced; it's the first stage of learning a new systemor mechanic.
    There's "deep" and there's "complicated". Breakpoints were the latter, not the former.

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