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  1. #11
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    Re: Strafer boss weapon idea?

    Why not just use Guided Arrow?

  2. #12
    D3 Monk Moderator kestegs's Avatar
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    Re: Strafer boss weapon idea?

    Quote Originally Posted by Erfel View Post
    Wrath runeword

    +375% damage against demons
    30% chance to cast decripify
    20% crushing blow

    Any boss with decripify is useless... especially baal, that won't use any of his annoying attacks (not even teleporting). This means +375% damage + -50% physical resistance.



    I would give it a try
    That's a good idea! Never seen anyone use that bow, but I think this would be its ideal application. It really looks custom made for a boss fight. Doesn't have any ias is the real downside though.

  3. #13
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    Re: Strafer boss weapon idea?

    With a faith merc you could easily reach the max breakpoint even without any ias in the weapon, if i remember correctly.

    Still, as you said, this is really meant for boss killing, crap for else

  4. #14
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    Re: Strafer boss weapon idea?

    Quote Originally Posted by Namtar View Post
    Why not just use Guided Arrow?
    Against a single target Strafe can attack every 5 frames on average, while Guided Arrow can only attack every 7 frames. This means Strafe can apply Crushing Blow and other such modifiers faster than GA when it has > 71% chance to hit. If 95% chance to hit can be achieved, it's 33% faster ( (100 * 7 / (5/0.95) ) - 100).

    Allowing for the 3/4 attack damage modifier, at maximum attack rate Strafe's weapon damage per second with 95% chance to hit is only slightly less than that of 7 frame GA, and with > 83% chance to hit it can be higher than 8 frame GA. See my previous post for the detail of all of the above.

    Since GA is a prerequisite for Strafe, there's no reason why it can't be used if the conditions for its maximum attack rate cannot be met, or when a single target doesn't present itself (the Ancients, or Baal summoning his clone and Festering Appendages).

    Quote Originally Posted by Erfel View Post
    With a faith merc you could easily reach the max breakpoint even without any ias in the weapon, if i remember correctly.
    This is true for the 38 EIAS breakpoint and a -10 weapon speed bow, but maximum attack rate against a single target requires at least 50 EIAS and level 8-11 or 28-31 Strafe (or 58 EIAS with level 1-3 Strafe).
    Last edited by onderduiker; 03-07-2013 at 17:22. Reason: Corrected calculation, fixed link

  5. #15
    IncGamers Member KremBanan's Avatar
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    Re: Strafer boss weapon idea?

    Ber in your Wf + Gores and Amp from Atma amulet = gg

  6. #16
    IncGamers Member BKC's Avatar
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    Re: Strafer boss weapon idea?

    Quote Originally Posted by KremBanan View Post
    Ber in your Wf + Gores and Amp from Atma amulet = gg
    quoted for truth... and a forti armor + faith merc helps here

  7. #17
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    Re: Strafer boss weapon idea?

    Quote Originally Posted by onderduiker View Post
    Against a single target Strafe can attack every 5 frames on average, while Guided Arrow can only attack every 7 frames. This means Strafe can apply Crushing Blow and other such modifiers faster than GA when it has > 72% chance to hit. If 95% chance to hit can be achieved, it's 40% faster.

    Allowing for the 3/4 attack damage modifier, at maximum attack rate Strafe's weapon damage per second with 95% chance to hit is only slightly less than that of 7 frame GA, and with > 83% chance to hit it can be higher than 8 frame GA. See my previous post for the detail of all of the above.

    Since GA is a prerequisite for Strafe, there's no reason why it can't be used if the conditions for its maximum attack rate cannot be met, or when a single target doesn't present itself (the Ancients, or Baal summoning his clone and Festering Appendages).
    So if I don't have a lot of sources of Crushing Blow, it seems like I would kill faster with my 7-frame Guided Arrow than with Strafe against a lone boss, even if I have a good chance to hit and even if there aren't other targets to potentially cut the number of Strafe hits to the boss.
    Last edited by Namtar; 03-07-2013 at 04:28.

  8. #18
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    Re: Strafer boss weapon idea?

    Quote Originally Posted by Namtar View Post
    So if I don't have a lot of sources of Crushing Blow, it seems like I would kill faster with my 7-frame Guided Arrow than with Strafe against a lone boss, even if I have a good chance to hit and even if there aren't other targets to potentially cute the number of Strafe hits to the boss.
    It depends on whether or not you focus on Strafe. Strafe's maximum attack rate against less than 10 targets requires just 50-57 EIAS and level 28-31 Strafe for 9 minimum arrows. 56-57 EIAS only results in 8 frame Guided Arrow, so Strafe attacks faster with > 62% chance to hit and applies more attack damage per second with > 83% chance to hit; 50-55 EIAS only results in 9 frame GA, so Strafe attacks faster with > 55% chance to hit and applies more DPS with > 74% chance to hit.

    The maximum attack rate of GA (and Multiple Shot) requires 75 EIAS, which means that unless you switch weapons you can only achieve Strafe's maximum attack rate against 10 targets, requiring > 57 EIAS and level > 31 Strafe for 10 minimum arrows and averaging 5.2 frames per attack against a single target. While Strafe still attacks faster with > 74% chance to hit, it can never apply more DPS than 7 frame GA (even with 95% chance to hit, GA would apply ~4.3% more).

    Level > 31 Strafe with > 57 EIAS averages 3.25 frames per attack against 2-10 targets, and 5.2 frames per attack against a single target: this means level 28-31 with 50-57 EIAS is 4% faster against less than 10 targets, while level > 31 with > 57 EIAS is ~3.8% faster against 10 targets (3.25 vs 3.375 or 27/8 frames per attack). So there isn't a great deal in it if you want to focus more on GA and MS, but bear in mind that it requires 17-19 EIAS more to reduce their attack length from 8 to 7 frames; even with a -10 weapon speed bow, in the absence of Fanaticism this is 62-67 IAS more (142 IAS vs 75 IAS for 56 EIAS or 80 IAS for 58 EIAS). While this results in ~14.3% increase in attack rate and thus DPS, attack damage and chance to hit also affect DPS so it's possible you might make sacrifices to achieve maximum attack rate that actually decrease DPS overall.

    Of course, this applies to Strafe too since achieving its maximum attack rate can require +8-12 skill bonuses on top of a 20 point investment (although +8-12 Strafe is also +40-60% Damage).

  9. #19
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    Re: Strafer boss weapon idea?

    Quote Originally Posted by onderduiker View Post
    It depends on whether or not you focus on Strafe. Strafe's maximum attack rate against less than 10 targets requires just 50-57 EIAS and level 28-31 Strafe for 9 minimum arrows. 56-57 EIAS only results in 8 frame Guided Arrow, so Strafe attacks faster with > 62% chance to hit and applies more attack damage per second with > 83% chance to hit; 50-55 EIAS only results in 9 frame GA, so Strafe attacks faster with > 55% chance to hit and applies more DPS with > 74% chance to hit.

    The maximum attack rate of GA (and Multiple Shot) requires 75 EIAS, which means that unless you switch weapons you can only achieve Strafe's maximum attack rate against 10 targets, requiring > 57 EIAS and level > 31 Strafe for 10 minimum arrows and averaging 5.2 frames per attack against a single target. While Strafe still attacks faster with > 74% chance to hit, it can never apply more DPS than 7 frame GA (even with 95% chance to hit, GA would apply ~4.3% more).

    Level > 31 Strafe with > 57 EIAS averages 3.25 frames per attack against 2-10 targets, and 5.2 frames per attack against a single target: this means level 28-31 with 50-57 EIAS is 4% faster against less than 10 targets, while level > 31 with > 57 EIAS is ~3.8% faster against 10 targets (3.25 vs 3.375 or 27/8 frames per attack). So there isn't a great deal in it if you want to focus more on GA and MS, but bear in mind that it requires 17-19 EIAS more to reduce their attack length from 8 to 7 frames; even with a -10 weapon speed bow, in the absence of Fanaticism this is 62-67 IAS more (142 IAS vs 75 IAS for 56 EIAS or 80 IAS for 58 EIAS). While this results in ~14.3% increase in attack rate and thus DPS, attack damage and chance to hit also affect DPS so it's possible you might make sacrifices to achieve maximum attack rate that actually decrease DPS overall.

    Of course, this applies to Strafe too since achieving its maximum attack rate can require +8-12 skill bonuses on top of a 20 point investment (although +8-12 Strafe is also +40-60% Damage).
    It's been a while since I considered this, but it seems that I'm equipping a lot of extra IAS in order to reach the 7-frame GA (I have a Faith GMB), and while I might be doing more DPS against bosses with GA than with Strafe using my current gear, I could give up the 7-frame GA and equip more damaging gear, potentially giving Strafe more damage output against a single target. Guess I'll have to reevaluate how much I value the 7-frame GA.

  10. #20
    IncGamers Member zrk's Avatar
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    Re: Strafer boss weapon idea?

    bowazons are just weak against bosses, no real way around it. get charged strike and go hybrid if you want an actual solution.

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