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  1. #41
    IncGamers Site Pal pharphis's Avatar
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    Re: Forum Mafia - The Dark Tower Signup Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Goryani View Post
    /in

    What I know of the Dark Tower I've read on these forums. If we choose #2, do we receive a list of character names only or will we see hints of role/ability?




    Back in my day, we didn't have no stinkin stories and we LIKED it! Kids these days...
    I don't believe you!

    And I'm only teasing. I was too lazy to even write an ending to my game, and 2 neutrals won that one!

  2. #42
    Crusader Moderator Drixx's Avatar
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    Re: Forum Mafia - The Dark Tower Signup Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by LozHinge the Unhinged View Post
    Not signing up at this time, but ... if there are two mafia games in all the World that I'd play, a Dark Tower version is one of them.
    I have a cookie if that would help entice you.

    Quote Originally Posted by thefranklin View Post
    I will play. I vote for random characters, I want to guess on who/what is actually in the game rather than know ahead of time. No WIFOA.

    But you can put me on the scum team for sure.
    Well the #2 option isn't giving people roles. The "mafia" team will be given a list of just character names exactly as long as the number of mafia there are (or else balance could be wildly affected). Town will be given a list MUCH longer than the actual number of townies of character names. Neutrals (if there are any) would have a limited list similar to mafia.

    Mafia would be given fake claims from the pool of un-used townie characters available.

    As far as I can tell, there's not really a way to game the system since the preference lists will be kept private and one of the game rules would forbid people to refer to their character preferences list in any way.

    No roles would be shown. Just character names. So ... if you have read the books or if you read the wiki thoroughly, you might have a guess as to what your character's role will be, or you might be hilariously wrong and get stuck playing a new role I invented and being my guinea pig.

    It's just a thought for a pseudo-choice method rather than straight randomness.

    Quote Originally Posted by Moar View Post
    Lol @ Drixx
    I do have a heart!

    Checked out the prices on Amazon. No "bundle" offers sadly, so I won't be buying any book sadly. I'd probably manage to read 3 or 4 before the start if they are good. I don't have any plans for the next two weekends.
    It's just the "Moar, give me Moar, give me Moar" part that always comes into mind when I read your posts.

    I don't believe there are any bundles aside from books 1-4, but I will say the books are worth investing in. I have them in hard copy and kindle edition.

    Quote Originally Posted by Gwaihir View Post
    As for choosing characters, I would vote random, but would not be upset at all by list submission. One thing to take into account would be to make sure that info from list of submitted names does not actually assist the town in catching scum (unless it should based on your design.) Maybe outlaw discussion of role choices? Because otherwise if there is enough overlap, there could be a way to prove a claim false (mafia A claims he is role y, with choices x,y,z. townie a and b both had them on thier list and can somehow work out that he can't be y becuase they are x and z, and both picked y, but in an order that invalidates the mafias choice).
    I hope my above elaboration clarifies. I'm perfectly fine doing a regular random assignment. I just thought I'd offer folks a choice so they can give themselves a bit of private WIFOM. Only character names would be shown and each faction would see only their own with the exception of the mafia fake claims I am going to give them to use to counter the penalty of all character names and alignments being revealed for all deaths. (Role for nightkills is still seen by the killer(s) only). The mafia fake claims, if #2 assignment is used, would come from the leftover pool of town characters, so nobody would have a way to game the system outside of wide-scale cheating outside of the game and provided QT's, which I couldn't stop and could happen no matter how I handle character assignment.

    Quote Originally Posted by Bad Ash View Post
    I am in. Who wants to be apart of my Ka-Tet?

    I say randomly random. I think it could be game breaking if people are like "I am town, and I know these other five roles are also town, come out and say who you are". Highly unlikely to happen, but possible.
    It will just be a list of names so no roles confirmed (people can make assumptions based upon what they expect or think but that's their own personal WIFOM). The mafia fake claims will come from what is left over of this pool, so I don't think it could be gamed.

    But if folks prefer random, I'm good with that. Not all mechanics ideas are necessarily good ones
    Drixx's HC Sept Progress

  3. #43
    IncGamers Site Pal pharphis's Avatar
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    Re: Forum Mafia - The Dark Tower Signup Thread

    Wait, alignments are given and then the town chooses the names they would prefer?

    Or do mafia/neutrals choose as well? I'm not sure I understand this but it sounds as though mafia don't need to choose at all.

  4. #44
    Crusader Moderator Drixx's Avatar
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    Re: Forum Mafia - The Dark Tower Signup Thread

    The town will have significantly more names than players (to allow for the fake claims needed and then some). I have about 2/3 of the town roles who have multiple possible abilities in order to ensure that any problematic choices don't harm the game.

    Mafia would get to choose from their own subset of the bad guys, but there won't be extras (so I can control their power precisely for the game's mechanics).

    Neutrals (if there are any, WIFOM WIFOM WIFOM) would be similar to mafia.

    The only thing people would be picking would be names, and unlike the roll order in the WIFOA game, everything remains private until the end and then once the game mechanics are revealed you can all see who would have preferred which characters the most and maybe people can enjoy talking about the different things and appreciate the different way things could have gone.

    Also, if you pick your own name and end up a Vanilla Townie, at least you can take solace that it wasn't just random chance.

    It could be a really cool idea or just a bunch of extra work for me that doesn't give you guys any real extra fun at the end. It's one of quite a few things that I thought up for the game.
    Drixx's HC Sept Progress

  5. #45
    IncGamers Member Goryani's Avatar
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    Re: Forum Mafia - The Dark Tower Signup Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Drixx View Post
    No roles would be shown. Just character names. So ...
    I'd like to see option #2 despite the dearth of info. My choice(s) will be essentially random due to lack of familiarity with the theme but that option seems most compelling because it looks interesting. However, I think there may some implementation issues. Read on.

    Quote Originally Posted by Drixx View Post
    one of the game rules would forbid people to refer to their character preferences list in any way.
    Imagine this scenario:
    Player A claims Character X
    Player B picked Character X as their top pick and didn't receive it.
    Therefore, Player B knows a townie has Character X.
    Player B might be prevented from mentioning the exact reason but there is nothing preventing Player B from unconditionally vouching for Player A. When pressed, Player B can say something cryptic like "I'm not allowed to talk about why without violating a game rule." The jist will be conveyed.

    The system can be gamed. If I receive my 7th pick then I know the character names of 6 townies.

    Alternative: Place mafia/neutral in the same random pick order list, give them the same list to pick from, and let their choice "remove" a name from the townie pool. Maybe give that mafia/neutral the name of that single role rather than a list of all unused roles. Even if the order is somehow reverse engineered, there is no correlation between order and alignment.

    Quote Originally Posted by Drixx View Post
    But if folks prefer random, I'm good with that.
    Let players submit random as a choice if they want.

  6. #46
    Crusader Moderator Drixx's Avatar
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    Re: Forum Mafia - The Dark Tower Signup Thread

    Well thought out Goryani. So the mafia/neutral essentially pick their fake claim. The only problem I see with that is if a mafia puts all of the obvious best town aligned characters at the top of their list and removes a key player. Perhaps mafia/neutral get a list that doesn't include the absolute MUST BE TOWN characters?

    I mean ... I cannot imagine that no townie will pick Roland, for example. But a mafia getting Roland off the list as their fake claim would wreak all sorts of story havoc.

    Perhaps this is a mechanic better left for another time?
    Drixx's HC Sept Progress

  7. #47
    IncGamers Member Caluin Graye's Avatar
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    Re: Forum Mafia - The Dark Tower Signup Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Moar View Post
    That explanation would be rather long and complicated. Are you sure you want to read it?
    Drixx isn't playing in this game. Someone needs to fill in the Wall of Text quota.

    (And with that, I'll play!)

  8. #48
    IncGamers Member Caluin Graye's Avatar
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    Re: Forum Mafia - The Dark Tower Signup Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Drixx View Post
    Perhaps this is a mechanic better left for another time?
    I think if you want a mechanic like that, then you should build the game around that mechanic and not try to fit it in to an already built game.

    You seem to have plenty of other great ideas for this game, and I'd really hate to see it ruined by something as trivial as a loophole found in the role selection process. Sometimes simple is the best way to go, and I think that's the case here.

  9. #49
    IncGamers Member Gwaihir's Avatar
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    Re: Forum Mafia - The Dark Tower Signup Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Drixx View Post
    I have a cookie if that would help entice you.
    What type? Be warned if they are good I may be demanding some.


    Quote Originally Posted by Drixx View Post
    It's just a thought for a pseudo-choice method rather than straight randomness.

    But if folks prefer random, I'm good with that. Not all mechanics ideas are necessarily good ones
    I like it, just trying to make sure there is no way around the system that could break the game. Especially as it sounds like you have put a ton of work into this, would hate to see it devolve into people figuring things out based on picks.

    Quote Originally Posted by Goryani View Post
    Imagine this scenario:
    Player A claims Character X
    Player B picked Character X as their top pick and didn't receive it.
    Therefore, Player B knows a townie has Character X.
    Player B might be prevented from mentioning the exact reason but there is nothing preventing Player B from unconditionally vouching for Player A. When pressed, Player B can say something cryptic like "I'm not allowed to talk about why without violating a game rule." The jist will be conveyed.

    The system can be gamed. If I receive my 7th pick then I know the character names of 6 townies.

    Alternative: Place mafia/neutral in the same random pick order list, give them the same list to pick from, and let their choice "remove" a name from the townie pool. Maybe give that mafia/neutral the name of that single role rather than a list of all unused roles. Even if the order is somehow reverse engineered, there is no correlation between order and alignment.

    Let players submit random as a choice if they want.
    To eliminate all info, maybe have everyone submit a list of 10 names, and guarantee they will receive someone on the list, not not that they will recieve thier top unpicked choice? Also if power roles pretty obviously line up with characters, there might not be much variety in the lists.

    There should be a way to make this work, and I think it would be interesting, just not sure how to best do it.

  10. #50
    IncGamers Member Gwaihir's Avatar
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    Re: Forum Mafia - The Dark Tower Signup Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Caluin Graye View Post
    I think if you want a mechanic like that, then you should build the game around that mechanic and not try to fit it in to an already built game.

    You seem to have plenty of other great ideas for this game, and I'd really hate to see it ruined by something as trivial as a loophole found in the role selection process. Sometimes simple is the best way to go, and I think that's the case here.
    This might be a good idea. I like the idea, and would love to see it work, but it might be easier to build a game around it.

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