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  1. #21
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    Re: Diablo 3 1.0.1 "Mod"/option?

    Yeah, but that's not particularly fun or self-expressive, which is why people impose restrictions on themselves as a way of expressing themselves and enjoying the game.

    Restriction: no RMAH = more enjoyment
    Restriction: self-found = more enjoyment (for some, not necessarily for all)
    Restriction: HC = more enjoyment (for some, not necessarily for all)
    Restriction: higher MP than you can faceroll = more enjoyment (for some, not necessarily for all)
    Restriction: playing a class other than Barb = more enjoyment (for some, not necessarily for all)

    etc.

    Edit: you edited your pithy post about botting to 60 and using the RMAH to winz, so now my post doesn't make sense. Oh well. But I will say, originally your argument was, "D3 sux because you must restrict yourself to not get bored." But now you're saying that the goal is fun... so if you have fun by restricting yourself, then why does D3 suck, according to that argument? Clearly the restricting yourself is irrelevant, or even positive, if it causes you to have fun, right?

  2. #22
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    Re: Diablo 3 1.0.1 "Mod"/option?

    Quote Originally Posted by Ivan E View Post
    Yeah, but that's not particularly fun or self-expressive, which is why people impose restrictions on themselves as a way of expressing themselves and enjoying the game.

    Restriction: no RMAH = more enjoyment
    Restriction: self-found = more enjoyment (for some, not necessarily for all)
    Restriction: HC = more enjoyment (for some, not necessarily for all)
    Restriction: higher MP than you can faceroll = more enjoyment (for some, not necessarily for all)
    Restriction: playing a class other than Barb = more enjoyment (for some, not necessarily for all)

    etc.
    Again, you have a very hardcore mindset. You basically say: "harder and more challenging = more fun". This is NOT the case with many people who play video games. Explosive growth of casual gaming in recent years shows that perfectly.

    Blizzard failed, because they catered more to casuals than hardcores. That's why hardcores, like you, have to cheat themselves to play this game. D3 suggests that it is for classic PC hardcore crowd, being in reality a classic console, sofa button masher.

  3. #23
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    Re: Diablo 3 1.0.1 "Mod"/option?

    So now "having more fun" = "cheating yourself" ?

    Okay then. If I can replicate the challenge for the "classic PC hardcore crowd" using systems in the game (or, more specifically, NOT using systems in the game), then isn't that basically the best of both worlds? Garbagetime casual faceroll fest if you want it, and a more challenging setting you can play on if you want that as well? Isn't that a good thing?

  4. #24
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    Re: Diablo 3 1.0.1 "Mod"/option?

    Sorry but I really dont agree with self-restrictions. Its the game designers' job to create a challenging and well-rounded game, its not the players' job to keep twisting the game in weird ways for it to work.

    If that was the case there was no need for hardcore mode, I mean... just delete your own character if it dies. Also, about self-found: the drops have been tuned for mass AH usage, so if people want to play Self-found, its okay, but its not the solution to the problem, there are still awful drops that blizzard has imposed on the players, just because someone is claiming to play "self-found" it didnt make the problem vanish, it also didnt give any depth to the game either, its not something to marvel at and think:

    "Look how amazingly well designed diablo 3 is! Players can choose whenver to use the AH or Self-found! Blizzard has thought about everything!"


    It doesnt work that way. If anything, it just makes D3 even more badly designed.

  5. #25
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    Re: Diablo 3 1.0.1 "Mod"/option?

    Eh, I'm not in support of their poor drop rates. And HC is more of a signaling than anything else -- if people couldn't lie, there would be no need for HC, as no one could truthfully indicate that their character was HC when it wasn't.

    Anyway, my point wasn't so much about Blizzard's success/failure, but more that it's silly to first say that you think people should play for fun, while simultaneously indicating that self-restrictions are a bad aspect of gaming, since they only exist for fun's sake.

    Ideally, games would be such that they would be perfect little balls of happiness with no additional tinkering necessary (and hence no mods, either). But we don't live in an ideal world, so self-restrictions (and mods) are welcome, IMO. I can't think of a single game that hasn't been more fun for me via a self-restriction of some kind.

  6. #26
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    Re: Diablo 3 1.0.1 "Mod"/option?

    Well, Self-restrictions and mods are quite different subjects to me, one is about limting something inside the game's design and another is about creating or twisting new boundaries inside the game through code and new content, I may have missed why this subject came into a thread about mods.

    D3 Mods could be a blessing to the Diablo community but it would be a nightmare for Blizzard, and since they are control freaks about the enviroment that Diablo 3 has to be played and how it is played, its something that certainly will never ever happen (unless someone hack it from the offline console version, like Project M from Super Smash Brawl).

  7. #27
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    Re: Diablo 3 1.0.1 "Mod"/option?

    Quote Originally Posted by Ivan E View Post
    Eh, I'm not in support of their poor drop rates. And HC is more of a signaling than anything else -- if people couldn't lie, there would be no need for HC, as no one could truthfully indicate that their character was HC when it wasn't.

    Anyway, my point wasn't so much about Blizzard's success/failure, but more that it's silly to first say that you think people should play for fun, while simultaneously indicating that self-restrictions are a bad aspect of gaming, since they only exist for fun's sake.

    Ideally, games would be such that they would be perfect little balls of happiness with no additional tinkering necessary (and hence no mods, either). But we don't live in an ideal world, so self-restrictions (and mods) are welcome, IMO. I can't think of a single game that hasn't been more fun for me via a self-restriction of some kind.
    Recently I picked HoMM 3, for the first time. I'm deeply captivated by this game. It seem almost perfect for me. It's not very hard, it has tons of content and you can easily spend TEN HOURS or more, on a single map. I love this 12yo game. I don't feel any need to restrict myself while playing it. I'm having tons of fun and surprising moments. It feels right from get go to the end. Just like D2:LoD. D3 feels like a big mess to me, with a very prestigious name slapped on it.

    Very good point about SC vs HC. Ivan, you can play SC. Just make sure you delete your toon after every death, hehehe.

  8. #28
    IncGamers Member nurman's Avatar
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    Re: Diablo 3 1.0.1 "Mod"/option?

    Related
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    heh.

    Why can't everyone just play the game and stop metagame thinking?


    Quote Originally Posted by Quingu View Post
    Recently I picked HoMM 3, for the first time.
    Dude. It's 2013. You can't be serious that you haven't had it before.

  9. #29
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    Re: Diablo 3 1.0.1 "Mod"/option?

    Quote Originally Posted by Kiroptus View Post
    Sorry but I really dont agree with self-restrictions. Its the game designers' job to create a challenging and well-rounded game, its not the players' job to keep twisting the game in weird ways for it to work.
    A video game is not that different from a toy. There is no "right" way to play with your toys and there is no "right" way to play with your video games. If you think that the only thing that you should build with Legos is the model on the box, I'd argue you don't quite understand the point of playing with things.

  10. #30
    IncGamers Member nurman's Avatar
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    Re: Diablo 3 1.0.1 "Mod"/option?

    Quote Originally Posted by yovargas View Post
    A video game is not that different from a toy. There is no "right" way to play with your toys and there is no "right" way to play with your video games. If you think that the only thing that you should build with Legos is the model on the box, I'd argue you don't quite understand the point of playing with things.
    Indeed. Think of it as a board game or D&D with patches.

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