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  1. #31
    Menlyn
    Guest
    Flux, you touch on a really key point. \"The keeping up with the Joneses\" attitude of many players. I\'ve seen countless players finding a mempo, inna\'s pants or IK armor which rolled poorly, and subsequently blame the game, the poor itemization and/or the economy for the bad item, but the fact remains, it is still a good item, and would have fetched many millions a few months ago. People expect to find 1billion items regularly, but by their very nature , those items are exceptionally rare.

    Obviously, with more items entering the economy, the threshold for a top 0.01% (or whatever) continually grows, meaning your chances of finding such an item diminish. Any way you play the itemization game, in a softcore economy this is the reality. Many \"noobs\" fail to realise that while prices on the top end are rising, it\'s never been easier to gear your char to a good level.

    Lastly, one can say that Blizz has dropped the ball pretty badly though. First off, a failure to combat botters has led to huge influxes of gold in the economy. (trust me, if these guys can economically farm gold to be selling it at $2.3/100mill as advertised in chat, Blizz isn\'t doing a good job at all). Second, the AH. With a cap of 2bill, most of the good stuff goes straight to the RMAH, that which doesn\'t is almost instantly snapped up for 2bill and resold. By raising the AH cap, you\'d open the market up to more players.. and more importantly, provide a huge gold sink. (Imagine an item selling for 10billion.. that\'s a 1.5bill sink right there).

    To those guys who bought brimstones and got burnt.. sorry, but you can\'t really blame the economy for your unlucky speculations. You were hoping to make a quick buck and it didn\'t turn out well. I\'d love to see brimstones rise in value, but if you\'re going to speculate with 100s of mill, you need the cajones to take the losses.

  2. #32
    TheSwag
    Guest
    Actually, what you\'re referring to as \"deflation\" is not correct. In specific regards to gold, the main currency, yes is definitely INFLATING. People use blind arguments like \"well now you gear is worth more\" --DERP. NO, its not. Yes it has a higher pricetag of gold attached to it, but the net value of the gold is substantially less, which makes the item worth less. It\'s a weird concept, but its basically just feel-good value. \"Oh my weapons are worth 100 million now I\'m a baller\" - no, you\'re not, and no they\'re not, you\'re whats wrong with this game.

    What is happening is simple: People find tons and tons of rares and legendaries on a daily basis. The existing top 1% of gear is so elite and rare than when these changes to the economy like dropping the gold price floor down to 10m/$.30 will raise the value of the incredibly rare gear, but substantially drops the value of the mediocre and even above average gear. As more items are introduced to the market every day with no decay, any item that isn\'t on the very far end of the spectrum of \"goodness\" (very good or very bad) will see a large fluctuation in its value.

    What else is the problem with the economy you might ask? Well for starters, doing what Blizzard did to the cost of gold was selfish. Since gold is almost 10x worth less than it was before (I dont want to hear about the black market gold value) any gold you find is inherently worth less. This means that in order to obtain gold it is largely due to any items you find and sell. In case you havent gotten the memo, the vast majority of items you find will be utterly worthless and crap. Some people might argue that blizzard added things like the craftable items. Well, they still cost resources to create, still largely fluctuate in their effectiveness in regards to what stats they roll, and at the end of the day, remain completely worthless as you can\'t sell them.

    In summary: the gold you pick up is worth less money - making it harder to farm currency, the items you pick up are more abundant with the new monster density - thus even more worthless than before and drag down the value of anything that isnt the very best or the very worst in its class, BOA items are a feel-good, poor response to itemization and largely still not worth it, and yes Gold has inflated - not deflated - and the items (if represented on a nice bell curve _/^\\_ <---- showing very bad items slowly moving to the right where most everyone is , the hump, and then the super elite gear, which gets even more expensive and harder to obtain.

  3. #33
    Gatsby
    Guest
    \"I think impressions of hyper inflation and feelings of poverty in D3 are almost entirely based on “keeping up with the Joneses” as I linked in the post... Perhaps the issue is that in D3, we all want to hit the lottery and have the super highest quality gear, and anything less feels like a failure.\"

    This is a great point, which admittedly I tried to touch on in the last paragraph but should have expanded upon. I think many people take it as a given that since Blizzard hasn\'t actually released any content in the time D3 has been out, the entire end game revolves around constantly upgrading gear in order to move up MP levels, or as many people do, have a gold limit that they set themselves (these people include those you refer to as gold farmers). As such, the whole purpose of life in D3 is to get better gear. I won\'t repeat myself, but it seems to me to be less about gamer psychology and more about what everyone has been pigeon-holed into aiming for by Blizzard\'s refusal to add actual new content (besides oh look you can craft this one ring for months), such as never ending dungeons, new mini quests, new special monsters to hunt down, achievements, world events, mini-games, pvp with rewards (even different pvp arenas with environment-based goals maybe), just something else to do besides kill the same monsters over and over again!

    In my opinion, Blizzard focuses too much on the itemisation and class balancing. These things are only issues when people run out of things to do, so the only goal is to upgrade (and so people whinge when their class can\'t do it as fast as others, or takes more effort to get to the very elite levels). I completely agree with you in that we should be able to feel like enough is enough. This would occur if we had new content to constantly try, and so it wouldnt matter that a barb could pwn everything on mp10 with less gold spent than a WD, both people would have something fun and new to try every so often, so the WD wouldn\'t be as focused on his/her relatively inferiority to others. As for itemisation, I love what Travis Day appears to be doing, but I actually feel that the game is pretty good where this is concerned when it comes to the mid-tier levels, but only really breaks down at the very top when particular legendaries become BiS (and thus itemisation is the end-game in itself, which ironically is constantly being reinforced by Blizzard\'s commitment to it). Being a loot-hunting game isn\'t mutually exclusive with having new things to do while you hunt loot (or having particular ways of finding particular loot). I wouldn\'t even mind a wow-style gear grind system whereby new content/quests every few months directly lead you to a BoA upgrade, then the game would be just as much about the journey as the destination so to speak. Right now, it\'s like standing in the same river with a pan and trying to find nuggets of gold alongside everyone else, throw us down a mineshaft with a pickaxe once in a while!

  4. #34
    IncGamers Member
    Join Date
    Jul 2013
    Location
    Chicago
    Posts
    4

    Re: Diablo 3 Economy: Inflation?

    Paragon levels and mass scale botting is the reason for the hyperinflation. Every paragon level u find 3% more gold that adds up. Bptters who run 20 games at a time are farming millions an hour as well as raising their paragon levels and then farming 10s of millions per hour. It'd be cool to see a chart of the inflation, but the reasons for it couldn't be more obvious.

    Let me preface this by saying I love d3. Blizzard as a company is worse than Obama about talking out of both sides of their mouth. They need Bptters and they need the RMAH. They wouldn't put all the work they put into this game if it wasn't for all the money they are making off the ah-rmah. How else can they fund the server farms? Here's the question would you rather pay a monthly fee and have no rmah? It would exist anyways, but it would be outside of the game and not effect blizzards bottom line.

    We need less items and a commitment from blizzard to crack down on botting. They say they try, but they don't. Even if your running one bot it's obvious.

  5. #35
    IncGamers Member
    Join Date
    Sep 2012
    Location
    NorCal
    Posts
    20

    Re: Diablo 3 Economy: Inflation?

    Hey players;

    i think that Giantpegasus has the correct conclusion, that Blizz needs to eliminate botters, but since they make money off the RMAH that's not likely going to happen. the game for me (and many others i've talked to) at present is terribly skewed where even 1,000 hours would barely yield us a new piece of gear whether we farm it or buy it. i've been farming for Paragon points and am almost to 100 and have raised my dps to about 150k. still not enough to 'farm for new gear' in MP10, where supposedly the best drops would come from. and being a game i refuse to spend actual $'s on the RMAH. it's becoming sick. as suggested it might be pertinent to remove the RMAH and go with a subscription based game (like WoW), but as a player of WoW for 7 years, that gets screwed up too as many players of WoW know. it's all about the money and this game will be abandoned like all other such games that allow for unfair and outside influences to hold players of fun (even challenging fun) hostage!!!

    and btw, there's no doubt in my mind from experience and knowledge of even gaming systems that Blizz 'could' stop botters intantly. it's like every time i log on i 'report' the gold spammers that try to 'friend' me. but every loggin there they are again; at least 2-3 every day. could Blizz stop it? of course? why don't they? hmmmmm... i guess misery enjoys company. and though they (Blizz and botters) may not be to miserable at the moment, experience tells us they will be.

    hope they get it straightened out soon or i'm outta here too!

    thanks for the thread guys; very enlightening.

  6. #36
    IncGamers Member
    Join Date
    Sep 2011
    Location
    Montreal, QC, CA
    Posts
    259

    Re: Diablo 3 Economy: Inflation?

    I haven't been on these forums since the D3 launch but I just stopped by to check on things and had to comment on this... This is kind of long though so you might wanna save it for when you're on the can... or don't read it. :P

    The "economic" woes of D3 are not "the" problem and notions like "getting rid of botting fixes stuff" are pretty silly, it's like saying we can "cure" aids if we all stop having sex for a couple generations...

    The issues with the economy and even botting are a symptom, they are not the disease, the problem is the game as a whole, it doesn't matter what you do to manipulate a value of this or that when price is driven by the incentive to use that item... D3 is a loot game with hundreds of pieces of loot in almost endless stat combinations and yet with that, you and every other player playing your class want the exact same items with the exact same stats.

    I know people love to poopoo the AH, be it gold or RMAH, they label it the spitoon for their vitriol and dump every resentment in the world on Blizzard's shoulders but the reality is the game is having the troubles it is because of the GAME, it's a total mess and has been since day 1, I was hugely hyped for this game before release and thought great things would happen, but you can almost mark down to the day where I "lost it" and it was the week I got my beta access, saw the actual game and started going down the list of everything I feared seeing... and seeing damn near all of it.

    Don't get me wrong, I don't "hate" the game or the Developers, quite the contrary actually... but people who think "botting" or "duping" or anything else is the "reason" for the problems this game is having... Even the “inflation”... Well... It's not that simple, yes bots contribute but they don't create the problem, there aren't likely to be more bots now and there weren't less bots 6 months ago, the commercial botting wouldn't have actually changed all that much from launch.

    I think of it like this, a more popular game is likely to have more bots right? And less popular games have less, there's no point farming 500 billion gold a day if the entire server only ever uses 100, right? But what happens when you go from being a game where the server population consumes 500 billion a day down to 100billion but because the bots are already in place they are simply left running and are still producing 500billion a day? Yes, the bots devalue things, it's what they do, but an economy tanking isn't because there's too many bots, there's as many bots as there always have been, if anything there's probably less bots now since a lot of player run bots are gone with the players, which is the actual problem, economy tanks when player base tanks and bots or no bots, when you go from a game with let's say 1 million people and 3/4 of them quit, most of that gold gets passed on to the 1/4 that stay and with that much currency going to such a reduced population things tank, it happens in every game, it's a side effect of player decline, compared to that the botting is a drop in the bucket... In a game where gold is worth money nobody takes the gold (or the items worth gold) with them when they “quit”... Sure you might keep some stuff but everyone who quits tries to cash out in some way if they have any kind of value to their account.

    Markets "crashing" to price levels only mass botting could produce with gold so cheap it really is a buyers market is actually a good thing for the long term game at this point, the reason being that the people have already left, they played for a few months and moved on, if you ever want a hope in hell of anyone coming back, you need more than just more mobs to kill. A carrot on a stick works for the simple minded donkey but it takes a little more to train a horse, when people come back and see that 50mil Mempo they couldn't afford is now 10mil and they had 20mil from saving up for a decent Mempo before they quit, they will buy that Mempo and instantly restart the gear progression engine that keeps them grinding the same content over and over again, even if the loot system is so fubar they can't loot much more than dog turds and used condoms, at least if things are cheap enough you CAN still work towards something and feel like you are getting somewhere even if all you do is grind gold.

    Without enough “good” loot being generated (in a healthy game the loot would be generated by players but this isn't a healthy game) the vast majority of the player base falls far shy of being anywhere close to “leet dude” status and just like in the old days, new players are running around in gear that really is total garbage simply because it's all that is available, as time goes on naturally more gear is introduced and the scale shifts but that's not where this is important, with the “launch” population you had a huge initial influx of items creating that first “leet 99% dude” crowd, as players drop off and the game becomes less and less populated less and less items are being generated and there is less and less chance for there to be another member in the 99% club, especially when you consider the 99% club are still looking for upgrades and they have more money than you, thus by proxy it will be harder to progress through every other loot tier because as people build characters and quit without replacements being generated (lower end items would be affected by this more since people don't "clear" their account when quitting if they're only wearing 10mil of gear) the loot pools will simply dry up and players would have to go all the way back to using the same garbage people used in 1.04 and paying millions for it while all the veteran players are 95% and up farming garbage loot to sell for millions making a massive exploitative gear gap that has proven itself to be horribly damaging to player retention.

    Where botting enters into all this is that without the player base to sustain the influx of items (keeping in mind we're playing a game where the itemization is the game), bots are about the only thing keeping item progression for lesser geared players going, I'm not saying bots are saving the game... but they are definitely helping it a LOT more than people think, keeping in mind that I am speaking from the context that the game itself is pretty messed up outside of the botting/duping issues, people don't leave D3 because they can't sell their items for enough money or because gold is too cheap, they leave because they lose interest in the game, the reason for losing interest is irrelevant, nobody wants to play a game where you have to spend 1000$ to be “cool”... and to be perfectly honest, without the botting, duping and other stuff that is exactly the game we would be playing because the fundamental design flaw causing all the trouble is the arrogance of designing ignorance as a play style, that's not being pro-botting, that's just pointing out that with botting it's only 100$ to be “cool” now.

    D3 item value should never been as high as it was for the type of junk we sold months ago, it only ever got that high because at the peak of population 10 million people all had to fight over the same 15 items (exaggeration but you get the point) ... They took all that time to make an item AND skill system capable of generating limitless combinations and then they WoW-tarded it for the console.

    The problem isn't omg things are so fubar from bots, the problem is omg things are so fubar because 50% of the entire game is an itemization system whereby only 1% of all items dropped are even worth picking up off the floor let alone trying to sell on an AH that's nothing more than a who's got the fatter wallet for this BIS item... Leaving you the end-game content of bot, buy or be happy being mediocre.

    Items aren't cheaper or more numerous because there are more bots, it's because there are less players... It's only as noticeable as it is now because the game has hemorrhaged enough players that it's starting to get woozy.
    Last edited by Concupisco Quaestus; 19-07-2013 at 20:44.

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