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  1. #31
    IncGamers Member Technomancer's Avatar
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    Re: Religion being taught in schools?

    I think a Bible Lit class is a good thing. From a purely literary perspective (disregarding the religious aspect), it is clearly the most important book in western civilization. As long as it's elective, I've never had a problem with religion-themed classes in public school, as long as it's elective (from the Department of Redundancy Department). Having classes relating to other religions would be nice too, but from a technical perspective, their books and teachings are not as relevant to our language and (secular) culture as the bible. To me, it's actually a shame that it is such a loaded thing, because it belongs right next to Shakespeare and Milton.

    In 3rd and 4th grade, we went across the street for an hour every Wednesday to a church where we studied the bible and learned about the religion. I didn't really buy into it, it just didn't add up to me, and I asked annoying questions of course, but the lady was super patient and nice. I actually liked it over there much better than my normal church. I really liked the mythology (I know someone's eyes just went bloodshot ) behind it and the history, and I still do. Just like I like Greek, Roman, Egyptian, and Norse mythologies and histories, among many others. I also liked the expressions and the way things were written, sparking an intent fascination with Ye Olde Englishe (along with the first Dragon Warrior game ). I was even in a bible play and loved it! The class didn't change my level of faith though. If anything it decreased a little after being told my dead dog didn't go to heaven when I was 9. :/

    Where I draw the line is when spiritual activities are forced upon kids (like school prayer), are used to single out non-participants (like school prayer), or when beliefs are used in place of knowledge (like evolution v. creationism). I had a biology teacher in high school tell us he didn't believe in evolution but had to teach it anyways, and so he did. I understand his position, but "thank God" he couldn't force that on us. It being in an old book is NOT grounds for teaching something as fact with NO evidence whatsoever, while refusing to teach an alternative that has TONS of evidence throughout all of biology. I don't care how popular or pervasive the book is, until there is some evidence beyond "cuz it says so!", something in the bible should not be taught as fact in public school.

    Something I've never understood about the religion in schools debate is: If you are a parent, and you care SO much about making sure your kids get religious training, shouldn't YOU or YOUR CHURCH be doing that instead of the school? I mean, if *I* was religious, school has got to be the absolute LAST place I would want my kids learning it. Which version are they gonna get? Methodist? Baptist? Catholic? What if I was Jewish and my kid was being told he was going to hell?!

  2. #32
    IncGamers Member LozHinge the Unhinged's Avatar
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    Re: Religion being taught in schools?

    Techno, I can easily refute your point of view through the medium of bluster.

    *frothy abusive bluster*

    There. Consider yourself refuted and humiliated

  3. #33
    IncGamers Member BobCox2's Avatar
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    Re: Religion being taught in schools?

    Quote Originally Posted by Technomancer View Post
    I think a Bible Lit class is a good thing.
    Quote Originally Posted by LozHinge the Unhinged View Post
    Techno, I can easily refute your point of view through the medium of bluster.

    *frothy abusive bluster*

    There. Consider yourself refuted and humiliated
    I think I can do better.



    I got the most out of Buddhism and Tao in my comparative religion class.

    Best books I would recommend are Zen and the Art of Motorcycle Maintenance and The Tao of Pooh

    Unfamiliar Territory's seem have more to teach of course.

    Philosophy class was much better though, They used these things called logic and reason that all the arguments in the other class ignored.

    Book I would recommend is Sophie's Choice

    I think a Bible Lit class in the Western world as only teaches that the person in front of the class has all the power and wins the argument. Which is the point in Jewish/Christian/Muslim Religions right?

    Mendacem memorem esse oportet.

    I would not call religion worthless though, It's more like learning Latin as far as the value goes, it's embedded as part of the institutions around you so it's good to know how to deal with it...

    Spoiler


    But it's hard to do on the Internet Techo.
    Last edited by BobCox2; 30-05-2013 at 09:44.

  4. #34
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    Re: Religion being taught in schools?

    It doesn't matter what courses are taught. The point is "obey your master".


  5. #35
    IncGamers Member jmervyn's Avatar
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    Re: Religion being taught in schools?

    Quote Originally Posted by Technomancer View Post
    I really liked the mythology (I know someone's eyes just went bloodshot ) behind it and the history, and I still do.
    You talkin' to me?[/DeNiro] The Bible is shot full of both mythology and history; that's what makes it such a seminal work even for those who disagree with it. Know where the prohibition against anal comes from? Why "high places" are bad? What Jeroboam's sin <REALLY> was? All this and more if you actually pay attention.
    Quote Originally Posted by Technomancer View Post
    If you are a parent, and you care SO much about making sure your kids get religious training, shouldn't YOU or YOUR CHURCH be doing that instead of the school? I mean, if *I* was religious, school has got to be the absolute LAST place I would want my kids learning it. Which version are they gonna get? Methodist? Baptist? Catholic? What if I was Jewish and my kid was being told he was going to hell?!
    Definitely, and that's part of my criticism. However, I still stand by my point regarding the false Leftist claim that removing moral instruction from school somehow leaving a stable vacuum. The halls of some of my workplaces are plastered with hollow, banal moral propaganda because secular children are not learning morality at their parents' knees.
    Quote Originally Posted by LozHinge the Unhinged View Post
    Techno, I can easily refute your point of view through the medium of bluster.

    *frothy abusive bluster*

    There. Consider yourself refuted and humiliated
    I wouldn't ever call you frothy.

    Quote Originally Posted by stillman View Post
    It doesn't matter what courses are taught. The point is "obey your master".

    That one's out of the ballpark!

  6. #36
    IncGamers Member LozHinge the Unhinged's Avatar
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    Re: Religion being taught in schools?

    Quote Originally Posted by jmervyn View Post
    [...]

    I wouldn't ever call you frothy.
    I'll add that to the list of things you won't call me, then.
    Code:
    List of Things Merv Won't Call Me
    
    1. Frothy
    Quote Originally Posted by jmervyn View Post
    That one's out of the ballpark!
    Agreed.

    Now, a means of putting such ideas into action after all the damage that has been done for generations ...

  7. #37
    D3 Monk Moderator kestegs's Avatar
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    Re: Religion being taught in schools?

    Quote Originally Posted by Technomancer View Post
    I think a Bible Lit class is a good thing. From a purely literary perspective (disregarding the religious aspect), it is clearly the most important book in western civilization. As long as it's elective, I've never had a problem with religion-themed classes in public school, as long as it's elective (from the Department of Redundancy Department). Having classes relating to other religions would be nice too, but from a technical perspective, their books and teachings are not as relevant to our language and (secular) culture as the bible. To me, it's actually a shame that it is such a loaded thing, because it belongs right next to Shakespeare and Milton.

    In 3rd and 4th grade, we went across the street for an hour every Wednesday to a church where we studied the bible and learned about the religion. I didn't really buy into it, it just didn't add up to me, and I asked annoying questions of course, but the lady was super patient and nice. I actually liked it over there much better than my normal church. I really liked the mythology (I know someone's eyes just went bloodshot ) behind it and the history, and I still do. Just like I like Greek, Roman, Egyptian, and Norse mythologies and histories, among many others. I also liked the expressions and the way things were written, sparking an intent fascination with Ye Olde Englishe (along with the first Dragon Warrior game ). I was even in a bible play and loved it! The class didn't change my level of faith though. If anything it decreased a little after being told my dead dog didn't go to heaven when I was 9. :/

    Where I draw the line is when spiritual activities are forced upon kids (like school prayer), are used to single out non-participants (like school prayer), or when beliefs are used in place of knowledge (like evolution v. creationism). I had a biology teacher in high school tell us he didn't believe in evolution but had to teach it anyways, and so he did. I understand his position, but "thank God" he couldn't force that on us. It being in an old book is NOT grounds for teaching something as fact with NO evidence whatsoever, while refusing to teach an alternative that has TONS of evidence throughout all of biology. I don't care how popular or pervasive the book is, until there is some evidence beyond "cuz it says so!", something in the bible should not be taught as fact in public school.

    Something I've never understood about the religion in schools debate is: If you are a parent, and you care SO much about making sure your kids get religious training, shouldn't YOU or YOUR CHURCH be doing that instead of the school? I mean, if *I* was religious, school has got to be the absolute LAST place I would want my kids learning it. Which version are they gonna get? Methodist? Baptist? Catholic? What if I was Jewish and my kid was being told he was going to hell?!
    Dude! I totally agree! I love the original dragon warrior!

    But I do agree with most of what you said, snide remarks aside

    Quote Originally Posted by stillman View Post
    It doesn't matter what courses are taught. The point is "obey your master".

    That was actually really good!

  8. #38
    IncGamers Member wolfofbenjamin's Avatar
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    Re: Religion being taught in schools?

    My views on this is: I think religion is being taught in schools is because to make people (especially children) aware of the Divine presence of God in their life. It is a truth that you can not deny that books like the Bible exist and virtues like Holiness contribute to the advancement and prosperity of today's society.

  9. #39
    IncGamers Member BobCox2's Avatar
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    Re: Religion being taught in schools?

    Quote Originally Posted by wolfofbenjamin View Post
    My views on this is: I think religion is being taught in schools is because to make people (especially children) aware of the Divine presence of God in their life. It is a truth that you can not deny that books like the Bible exist and virtues like Holiness contribute to the advancement and prosperity of today's society.
    I deny the Bible Exists and I don't think you understand what the word "Can" Means.

  10. #40
    IncGamers Member Dawnmaster's Avatar
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    Re: Religion being taught in schools?

    Quote Originally Posted by wolfofbenjamin View Post
    My views on this is: I think religion is being taught in schools is because to make people (especially children) aware of the Divine presence of God in their life. It is a truth that you can not deny that books like the Bible exist and virtues like Holiness contribute to the advancement and prosperity of today's society.
    There is a problem with Religion in School:
    School is mandatory, religion is supposed to be a choice of free will.

    Problem is that children don't have enough grasp on the world to make "decent" choices about anything,
    and secondary problem is that children are susceptive to anything being taught (schools basically brainwash children)

    It's also virtually impossible to logically combine courses like physics/biology/chemistry/astronomy with religion.
    Unless you explain that all natural laws and formulas are gods plans, which is just evading the issue,
    and it doesn't solve of the problems,
    eg: according to religion, it's impossible for man to enter space, so how did we land on the moon?
    (and don't get started that it was a hoax, everybody knows by now that the hoax was a joke from a television show)

    As far as the virtue of "holiness" goes, I'll simply refer to a few fact
    1) religion is against abortion when raped (they claim the fetus will be rejected by the woman after rape, while this almost never happens)
    2) how about the nice priests and their altar pupils? (I never got the part where priests take boys, why not girls? or the maid for that matter?)
    3) why are virtually all priests/bishops/pope/imans/rabbis male, why are men always more important in religious stories? god is unisex, and all people are supposed to be on the same level, so why are women kept small by most religions?

    In my humble opinion: because the bible was written by men, men controlled women in the old days, and they've been trying to cling to that tradition ever since, justifying everything by those means.

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