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  1. #21

  2. #22
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    Re: Help! I have tephephobia--the fear of being buried alive!

    Quote Originally Posted by Orba View Post
    I am sorry but I don't know what "clothespin on the nose" means, and how does it make sure a person is dead?
    If you clamp the nostrils shut while the mouth is closed, the person can't breathe. Brain death happens in 4 minutes. I suppose a strip of tape over the mouth would seal the deal.

    Puns are cool. Why do people hate puns these days?

    Quote Originally Posted by Orba View Post
    I think you make very good points. How about this, I have another solution. Maybe we can outfit the coroner/physician with portable EEG device that can measure people's brain waves, and they can use this device when they go to a supposed death, then they can use this portable EEG device to see if they can detect any brain activity? That way people who are just unconscious won't be buried/cremated alive by mistake? What do you think?
    That's a much better idea. Not as cheap as tape and a clothespin, but if people want to be dead sure, then so be it.

    There is still the problem of being buried alive in underdeveloped countries where...doctors and their technology suck. But again, my idealist goal would be to prevent folk there from dying in the first place.

    Quote Originally Posted by Orba View Post
    So you would rather let someone get buried alive?
    Yes, just like I would not try forcing everyone to wear lightning proof suits in case they get struck by lightning. One terrifying moment in a coffin is worth the thousands of families who get their freedom to bury loved ones as they choose.

    More importantly, those victims had their shot at life. We shouldn't let the dead and dying rule the healthy through laws pandering to the former.

    Quote Originally Posted by Orba View Post
    Actually, I have seen this TV program where they showed the face of a victim of premature burial. She showed signs of dreadful, extreme torture on her face, and her fingers were all broken and bent back from clawing at the coffin. I find that you tend to trivialize the suffering of those unfortunate enough to be buried alive.
    Suffocation is bad, but there are far worse ways to go. At least it's over relatively quick. Kwashiorkor takes days.

    Quote Originally Posted by Orba View Post
    Well, do you have any better ways of ensuring someone is dead? I can't think of any except for the portable EEG device thing.
    Yes, and they all involve duct tape. One strip over the nose and mouth should do it. Or, tape a bag over the corpse's head. I guess the morgue workers would loom over and say, "last chance, buddy."

    People have designed all sorts of graveyard contraptions so the semi-dead can alert others that they've been buried alive. All because no one wants to put a bag over a corpse's head and wait a bit. The problem was far more common in the past.

    Quote Originally Posted by Orba View Post
    First of all, it's not just premature burial. I am talking about premature cremation too. And that is so self-apparently awful that I believe doing everything I can to prevent it is worth it. Also, you seem to be saying just because there are other bad things happening in the world, I shouldn't be focusing on one particular bad thing (in this case, premature burial/cremation) that you personally regard to be not as important. I don't understand. I have only limited resources, of course I am going to focus my efforts on things that I personally deem to be the most urgent. What are you saying, that I should just forget about preventing people from being buried/cremated alive, just because there are other bad things out there happening?
    I'm idealist, so I believe in priorities. For instance, I don't think animal cruelty is going away until we sort out a number of human problems first. So the animal welfare advocates, while their hearts are in the right place, might not be making fast enough progress b/c they focus on animals rather than the root causes of why humans mistreat them.

    In your example, I believe you could prevent far more people from being buried alive by tackling the problems that lead to it. I would find the top 5 causes of death that most commonly lead to people getting buried alive and work on prevention.

    Quote Originally Posted by Orba View Post
    Actually I believe you have about 1 to 2 hours worth of oxygen in a sealed coffin. this is not taking into account in some cultures, they tend to bore a small hole in the coffin to allow air in as to speed up decomposition. In this scenario. the person trapped inside the coffin can survive and feel mental anguish for longer.
    Well, that is pretty rough, I'll admit. People really need to put some effort into staying alive.

  3. #23
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    Re: Help! I have tephephobia--the fear of being buried alive!

    Quote Originally Posted by stillman View Post
    If you clamp the nostrils shut while the mouth is closed, the person can't breathe. Brain death happens in 4 minutes. I suppose a strip of tape over the mouth would seal the deal.

    Puns are cool. Why do people hate puns these days?


    I truly like this idea, it's a much cheaper and less invasive way of ensuring people are dead than embalming. That being said, I just don't see it as ever catching on as a thing people regularly do in the event of a supposed death. People will be too busy mourning to have the mental together-ness to perform this act to ensure they won't be burying/cremating their loved ones alive. do you have a better solution to this?


    That's a much better idea. Not as cheap as tape and a clothespin, but if people want to be dead sure, then so be it.
    Thank you for your kind words. I have an idea. I will soon be composing a letter urging all the members of legislative assembly of British Columbia to equip emergency responders and physicians with portable EEG devices as to save lives. Would you be kind enough as to go over my letter, and maybe critique it? I have a lot of respect for your intellect, having conversed with you.

    There is still the problem of being buried alive in underdeveloped countries where...doctors and their technology suck. But again, my idealist goal would be to prevent folk there from dying in the first place.
    However I would argue preventing people from dying is an impossible task. Sooner or later, we ALL die.


    Yes, just like I would not try forcing everyone to wear lightning proof suits in case they get struck by lightning. One terrifying moment in a coffin is worth the thousands of families who get their freedom to bury loved ones as they choose.
    I can't disagree with your logic (referring tot he lightning proof suit), however it just really saddens me that there doesn't seem to be any way to prevent premature burial. Well, besides my portable EEG device suggestion.

    ,
    More importantly, those victims had their shot at life. We shouldn't let the dead and dying rule the healthy through laws pandering to the former.
    However, these dying people are technically still alive, and are thinking and feeling and capable of suffering tremendously (namely being buried or cremated alive). Don't you think that as an ethical society, we ought to think of some ways to ensure they won't have to suffer, without making laws that affect/inconvenience they healthy?


    Suffocation is bad, but there are far worse ways to go. At least it's over relatively quick. Kwashiorkor takes days.
    I will have you know it's not merely suffocation that will be present. We are talking about fright, extreme level of mental anguish, suffering, panic, during a person's last moments.

  4. #24
    IncGamers Member Dawnmaster's Avatar
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    Re: Help! I have tephephobia--the fear of being buried alive!

    Quote Originally Posted by Orba View Post
    [/SIZE]
    I truly like this idea, it's a much cheaper and less invasive way of ensuring people are dead than embalming. That being said, I just don't see it as ever catching on as a thing people regularly do in the event of a supposed death. People will be too busy mourning to have the mental together-ness to perform this act to ensure they won't be burying/cremating their loved ones alive. do you have a better solution to this?

    Thank you for your kind words. I have an idea. I will soon be composing a letter urging all the members of legislative assembly of British Columbia to equip emergency responders and physicians with portable EEG devices as to save lives. Would you be kind enough as to go over my letter, and maybe critique it? I have a lot of respect for your intellect, having conversed with you.

    However I would argue preventing people from dying is an impossible task. Sooner or later, we ALL die.

    I can't disagree with your logic (referring tot he lightning proof suit), however it just really saddens me that there doesn't seem to be any way to prevent premature burial. Well, besides my portable EEG device suggestion.

    However, these dying people are technically still alive, and are thinking and feeling and capable of suffering tremendously (namely being buried or cremated alive). Don't you think that as an ethical society, we ought to think of some ways to ensure they won't have to suffer, without making laws that affect/inconvenience they healthy?

    I will have you know it's not merely suffocation that will be present. We are talking about fright, extreme level of mental anguish, suffering, panic, during a person's last moments.
    I'm surely missing something here, rather then preventing people from being buried alive, you'd rather kill them instead by suffocating them? Sure it's more humane than letting them suffer a bit longer, but isn't this some sort of illegal euthanasia?

    Why portable EEG's? The people aren't declared dead in a morgue? They're declared dead in a hospital, a place that has plenty of equipment already at hand?

    Sure we all die one day, and you shouldn't try to stretch the impossible, but putting an end to it rather than preventing the torture alltogether seems rather harsh to me?

    There are people in this world who endure unimaginable torture day in and out for years, I can't imagine the buried/cremated ones being more afraid then all those people who get trapped under collapsed or burning buildings?
    Atleast the buried ones will only suffer until the carbon dioxide levels are too high, and they'll fall happy and gently to sleep, whereas the cremetad ones will probably be in agonizing pain, but for a shorter period.

    Perhaps the best course of action is to let people sign a piece of paper (in advance ofc) that certain precautions have to be taken in the event of dead, that they're actually dead? (kinda like euthanasia papers for coma patients?)

    As mentioned before, the suffocation isn't that bad, you're not strangled, you're merely falling asleep. I agree though that people will be in extreme fear and panic (probably explains the clawing), although old people might get an heart attack and die instantly if they're lucky (might explain the horror on the faces)

  5. #25
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    Re: Help! I have tephephobia--the fear of being buried alive!

    Quote Originally Posted by Dawnmaster View Post
    Why portable EEG's? The people aren't declared dead in a morgue? They're declared dead in a hospital, a place that has plenty of equipment already at hand?
    Portable EEGs are for home death, where people die away from hospital and all those advanced equipment. The way I see it, home deaths have the highest probability of mispronouncement of death, because doctors/nurses/paramedics who go to people's houses to certify death do not have equipment on hand and instead are unaided, and have to rely on the more traditional and as a result, more error-prone method of determining death, such as by feeling for a pulse, detecting breath..etc. This is where the portable EEG comes in. It will be a much more accurate way of determining whether someone is truly dead or not, thereby preventing the possibility of premature burial/cremation.

    Sure we all die one day, and you shouldn't try to stretch the impossible, but putting an end to it rather than preventing the torture alltogether seems rather harsh to me?
    I don't quite get this part. what do you mean by preventing the torture? What torture?
    There are people in this world who endure unimaginable torture day in and out for years, I can't imagine the buried/cremated ones being more afraid then all those people who get trapped under collapsed or burning buildings?
    I am sorry I don't quite get what you are trying to say. Are you saying that people buried/cremated alive do not suffer as much as other people?

    Atleast the buried ones will only suffer until the carbon dioxide levels are too high, and they'll fall happy and gently to sleep, whereas the cremetad ones will probably be in agonizing pain, but for a shorter period.
    I am not sure about the "fall happy and gently to sleep" part. At least, before getting to that part, they will have suffered extreme levels of fright, despair, and panic. Very extreme kind of mental anguish. Also, you are right about the cremated ones suffer agonizing pain. I can't even begin to imagine what it feels like to undergo that, and this gives me tremendous motivation to try and prevent such a fate from ever happening to anybody.

    Perhaps the best course of action is to let people sign a piece of paper (in advance ofc) that certain precautions have to be taken in the event of dead, that they're actually dead? (kinda like euthanasia papers for coma patients?)
    This would work except that to ensure everybody is protected this way, we would require a level of awareness among the public about the possibility of premature burial/cremation, which is something we don't quite have.

  6. #26
    IncGamers Member Dawnmaster's Avatar
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    Re: Help! I have tephephobia--the fear of being buried alive!

    Quote Originally Posted by Orba View Post
    Portable EEGs are for home death, where people die away from hospital and all those advanced equipment.The way I see it, home deaths have the highest probability of mispronouncement of death,because doctors/nurses/paramedics who go to people's houses to certify death do not have equipment on hand and instead are unaided,and have to rely on the more traditional and as a result, more error-prone method of determining death,such as by feeling for a pulse, detecting breath..etc. This is where the portable EEG comes in.It will be a much more accurate way of determining whether someone is truly dead or not,thereby preventing the possibility of premature burial/cremation.
    But home death's are transported to hospitals/morgues for investigation anyway?
    Quote Originally Posted by Orba View Post
    I don't quite get this part. what do you mean by preventing the torture? What torture?
    The torture of panic etc?
    Quote Originally Posted by Orba View Post
    I am sorry I don't quite get what you are trying to say.Are you saying that people buried/cremated alive do not suffer as much as other people?
    Yes, that's exactly what I'm saying. Why? 3 major reasons:1) There are a lot fewer cases of live burial/cremation than there are disasters which cause buildings to collapse or burn.2) The awareness is higher, if you're wrongfully declared dead, you'll be buried/cremated alive mostly while being unconscious, the same cannot be said if you're under a building, or in a burning house? (I only keep using these 2 examples over and over again because of the obvious similarities with your anxieties)3) The time window before actualy death is shorter for your examples.
    Quote Originally Posted by Orba View Post
    I am not sure about the "fall happy and gently to sleep" part.At least, before getting to that part, they will have suffered extreme levels of fright, despair, and panic.Very extreme kind of mental anguish. Also, you are right about the cremated ones suffer agonizing pain.I can't even begin to imagine what it feels like to undergo that, and this gives me tremendous motivationto try and prevent such a fate from ever happening to anybody.
    It's all extreme yes, but only quite shortlived compared to what I just said above.There are people in this world who get tortured by others to the extreme what a human body/mind can endure, for days/weeks/monthsand in rare cases even years! Perhaps you could also consider helping those people?Remember, there is a lot of crap in this world,I'm just pointing out more common problems which are similar and where you could possibly help more people.
    Quote Originally Posted by Orba View Post
    This would work except that to ensure everybody is protected this way,we would require a level of awareness among the public about the possibility of premature burial/cremation,which is something we don't quite have.
    All of the above.

  7. #27
    IncGamers Member Stevinator's Avatar
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    Re: Help! I have tephephobia--the fear of being buried alive!

    But home death's are transported to hospitals/morgues for investigation anyway?
    Man, it took us a long time to get to here.

  8. #28
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    Re: Help! I have tephephobia--the fear of being buried alive!

    Quote Originally Posted by Dawnmaster View Post
    But home death's are transported to hospitals/morgues for investigation anyway?
    Not that I am aware of. I don't think they haul bodies from deaths that occurred at home to hospital for investigation. Only if the death is suspicious. I think most that happens is a physician will come to your house to announce the death. And often these physicians are unaided with equipment when they are thus at a home pronouncing death. Hence the error rate of mistakes is higher. And this is where my anxieties come in, that patients might be wrongfully pronounced dead.



    Yes, that's exactly what I'm saying. Why? 3 major reasons:1) There are a lot fewer cases of live burial/cremation than there are disasters which cause buildings to collapse or burn.
    I am talking about absolute suffering that a person would have to endure, not the number of people that would suffer. Sure there are more people dying in disasters where buildings collapse or burn than in the case of premature burial/cremation, however in terms of absolute suffering, I'd say it's about the same. Also, people trapped under a collapsed/burning building have a chance of survival, whereas people buried/cremated alive don't.

    2) The awareness is higher, if you're wrongfully declared dead, you'll be buried/cremated alive mostly while being unconscious, the same cannot be said if you're under a building, or in a burning house? (I only keep using these 2 examples over and over again because of the obvious similarities with your anxieties)
    I have heard of a lot of cases where the patient goes into a diabetic coma, gets pronounced dead, only to wake up just in time to be rescued. And these are the lucky ones. How many UNlucky ones wake up till after they are buried/sent into a cremation chamber? Yes I agree with you that in most cases they would be unconscious, but there have been cases where people regained consciousness after being declared dead.

    3) The time window before actualy death is shorter for your examples.It's all extreme yes, but only quite shortlived compared to what I just said above.There are people in this world who get tortured by others to the extreme what a human body/mind can endure, for days/weeks/monthsand in rare cases even years! Perhaps you could also consider helping those people?Remember, there is a lot of crap in this world,I'm just pointing out more common problems which are similar and where you could possibly help more people.
    In the case of premature cremation, sure, maybe the time window truly is short. However, what about in the case of premature burial, where in some cultures, they tend to bore a small hole in the coffin as to allow air in to speed up decomposition? In these cases, the people buried alive would have DAYS to die from dehydration. All the while suffering extreme levels of panic and fright. It's unthinkable.

  9. #29
    IncGamers Member Stevinator's Avatar
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    Re: Help! I have tephephobia--the fear of being buried alive!

    Orba, where do you live? I'm pretty sure if someone died, either the police or the coroner would show up. They won't go to the hospital if you're clearly not making it, but they don't just fill out a report and leave grandma on your couch.

  10. #30
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    Re: Help! I have tephephobia--the fear of being buried alive!

    Quote Originally Posted by Stevinator View Post
    Orba, where do you live?
    I live in British Columbia, Canada.

    I'm pretty sure if someone died, either the police or the coroner would show up.
    I did some research online and found that not all deaths are investigated by the coroner, ie, not all corpses have autopsy performed on them.

    They won't go to the hospital if you're clearly not making it, but they don't just fill out a report and leave grandma on your couch.
    Pray tell, if they don't just "fill out a report then leave grandma on the couch", what is it that they do?

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