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  1. #1
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    Patch 1.08 has dramatically improved Diablo 3's entertainment value.

    Everyone knows about the gold dupe thing caused by them using a 32 bit number for gold values (which would also explain why auctions are capped at 2 bil if you can't go over about 2.15 bil without an error).

    But I recently found something more priceless. An exact breakdown of how enemy XP/loot was "modified in accordance with its HP". It was 100% complete nerfs, often dramatic. Also, almost every enemy on the list is in an act other than 3.

    http://us.battle.net/d3/en/forum/topic/8770357797#7

    Take a moment to think about that.

    The entire point of the whole monster density revamp was to make acts other than 3 worth playing. They then went and made acts other than 3 filled with low XP low drop mobs, instead of the smaller numbers of more productive enemies they had before.

    Can someone explain to the class in what way this is an improvement, or would in any way change the game? Because the way I see it they just went and sabotaged their own major patch feature because... what? People were finding too much stuff? Pfft. The odds are so stacked against you in this game you could give all players literally over 9,000 MF and they'd still mostly find junk. People were leveling too fast?

    Holy ****, people are able to level up off an non Alkaizer run? MUST BE NERFED!

    ...Now it'd be nice if Diablo 3's entertainment value were coming from the game itself, but as long as they're gonna continue this train wreck of failure I'm going to continue pointing while cackling insanely in laughter. This is the most fun this game has been in a while.

  2. #2

    Re: Patch 1.08 has dramatically improved Diablo 3's entertainment value.

    And yet I'm netting more exp per run in act 1&2 than I was in act 3 prior to the patch. The loot has been dropping at about the same rate, though (in solo play).

    The point of the density patch was to bring acts 1, 2, and 4 in line with act 3. I think they accomplished that.

  3. #3
    IncGamers Member RazeBarb's Avatar
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    Re: Patch 1.08 has dramatically improved Diablo 3's entertainment value.

    I started playing 1.08 with lvl 98 (3/4ths of the bar full) and now I am just 50% away from lvl100 after maybe 4 hours playtime.

    Why? Because now I can join MP10 Act1 and get +1000% xp. The amount of legendary items dropping is insane. Not a single run without at least 1.

    Good patch!

  4. #4
    Administrator Flux's Avatar
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    Re: Patch 1.08 has dramatically improved Diablo 3's entertainment value.

    Quote Originally Posted by Steven Hazani View Post
    The entire point of the whole monster density revamp was to make acts other than 3 worth playing. They then went and made acts other than 3 filled with low XP low drop mobs, instead of the smaller numbers of more productive enemies they had before.

    Can someone explain to the class in what way this is an improvement, or would in any way change the game?
    Pretty much what the other replies said. They wanted to boost Acts 1 and 2 (and 4?) in popularity/playability and make them more comparable to Act 3. But they didn't want to make Acts 1-2 way way better. Which they would have been with 3x the monsters, if the exp rewards hadn't been reduced a bit. They nerfed some of the exp in Act 3 as well; namely from cutting way back on scorpion exp.

    I've done several runs of A1/A2 since the patch, and I'm definitely gaining more exp now than I was pulling in act 3 during the last week of v1.07. And that's before the scorpions exp was nerfed.

    Item drop quantity is up a bit also, in terms of legendaries. The thing I've really noticed is Tomes of Secret. I'm getting those in crazy numbers, like 33-50% more than previously, I guess since trash mobs are fairly likely to drop them, and there are 2-3x the trash mobs we used to see. Typical 20-30m game in the past (long enough to fill up inv with good type rares) I'd get maybe 25-30 ToS. Now I'm getting 45-50 in about the same amount of time.

    I'm curious to see how they drop in value once the GAH goes back online (I'm in HC). They were 10-14k previously, with dips in price to about 8 or 9k a few times in late v1.07. Prices will be crazy when the GAH goes back online since everyone's got a huge backlog of stuff to sell, but once prices stabilize in a week or 2 I suspect ToS will be like 5 or 6k in HC, as often as they drop now in A1/A2.
    --Flux
    The Diablo 1, 2, & 3 Wiki! (Under construction.)


  5. #5
    IncGamers Member Speedster's Avatar
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    Re: Patch 1.08 has dramatically improved Diablo 3's entertainment value.

    Quote Originally Posted by RazeBarb View Post
    I started playing 1.08 with lvl 98 (3/4ths of the bar full) and now I am just 50% away from lvl100 after maybe 4 hours playtime.

    Why? Because now I can join MP10 Act1 and get +1000% xp. The amount of legendary items dropping is insane. Not a single run without at least 1.

    Good patch!
    I agree with Raze.

    Nonstop action, new scenery (hadn't played through Act 1 in many months), more drops and 'identify all' so little pain in picking up rares in the hope they'll be keepers.

  6. #6
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    Re: Patch 1.08 has dramatically improved Diablo 3's entertainment value.

    Quote Originally Posted by slyraje View Post
    And yet I'm netting more exp per run in act 1&2 than I was in act 3 prior to the patch. The loot has been dropping at about the same rate, though (in solo play).

    The point of the density patch was to bring acts 1, 2, and 4 in line with act 3. I think they accomplished that.
    And is this because of the enemies, or because items/stacks now stack multiplicatively with MP rather than additively?

    Quote Originally Posted by RazeBarb View Post
    I started playing 1.08 with lvl 98 (3/4ths of the bar full) and now I am just 50% away from lvl100 after maybe 4 hours playtime.

    Why? Because now I can join MP10 Act1 and get +1000% xp. The amount of legendary items dropping is insane. Not a single run without at least 1.

    Good patch!
    We have our answer. By the way, that's 60 million an hour. Not exactly stellar results, especially after a buff. People were doing 100-200 mil an hour before it (not just from scorpions).

    Quote Originally Posted by Flux View Post
    Pretty much what the other replies said. They wanted to boost Acts 1 and 2 (and 4?) in popularity/playability and make them more comparable to Act 3. But they didn't want to make Acts 1-2 way way better. Which they would have been with 3x the monsters, if the exp rewards hadn't been reduced a bit. They nerfed some of the exp in Act 3 as well; namely from cutting way back on scorpion exp.
    Allow me to walk everyone through this from the beginning, since my initial post focused more on laughing at Blizzard for having such poor judgment than explaining exactly how and why their judgment is flawed.

    Initially they were just going to nerf scorpion XP. Now this is questionable, because part of their reasoning was that a Mallet Lord only gave 50% more XP than a scorpion, and I don't see how anyone could say that and not think that Mallet Lords (the hardest non elite in the game) should not have "rewards in proportion to their difficulty" as well. Still, it seemed reasonable (even though scorpions are only good for XP because they appear in large numbers, unlike most other enemy types, individual scorpions are NOT good XP).

    They later expanded it to shadow demons. Eh, still reasonable.

    They then say a number of enemies have had rewarded altered in proportion to difficulty. Still reasonable.

    They then list what all the altered enemies are (but not the precise nature of the modification). Still reasonable.

    People panic and assume it is a pure nerf.

    Turns out it actually was.

    At no point in time were the hard enemies, such as Dark Berserkers, Gorgors, Blood Clan Shamans, the tree guys, most of Act 4, etc even mentioned. Making the easy kills less rewarding seems reasonable to prevent something else from becoming the new scorpion, but leaving all sorts of enemy types as skip bait is not.

    And going through all this trouble to get people out of act 3 then to undermine their own efforts? It's laughable. But Blizzard has a proven track record of delivering "catches" in Diablo 3. This is far from the only example of where they've given people what they asked for then snuck in a catch as a screw you. 1.03 drops anyone? The list goes on and on and on.

    I just think it'd be nice if they just did something nice for the game without slipping in all these rider bills.

  7. #7

    Re: Patch 1.08 has dramatically improved Diablo 3's entertainment value.

    You're not making any real points. You're trying to use one person's "maybe 4 hours playtime" as an example for the entire player base's exp/hr.

    Plain and simply, the other acts (maybe not 4) are absolutely worth running now. Find me an example of someone who was pulling 100-200 million xp/hr that is getting considerably less after the patch (and after they've had time to find the optimal runs in other acts).

  8. #8
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    Re: Patch 1.08 has dramatically improved Diablo 3's entertainment value.

    Quote Originally Posted by slyraje View Post
    You're not making any real points. You're trying to use one person's "maybe 4 hours playtime" as an example for the entire player base's exp/hr.

    Plain and simply, the other acts (maybe not 4) are absolutely worth running now. Find me an example of someone who was pulling 100-200 million xp/hr that is getting considerably less after the patch (and after they've had time to find the optimal runs in other acts).
    My point is that the benefit is solely coming from the alteration to XP bonuses, which is independent of what enemies or areas you get XP from. My response to him was but a small part of the whole, and by no means my entire point.

    Scorpions excluded, what this means is that you now get more XP from act 3. You would get more from 1-2 due to the monster density fixes but when you double the enemies and half the rewards that's called breaking even. Except it's diluted over twice as many enemies, making it still a nerf. Granted, not all the nerfs are 50% or greater, but there's not a single buff for the hard enemies in any of the in game areas. Not even one. Making say, those ghouls in act 1 worth less and the trees and berserkers worth more would actually make sense.

    Nerfing many enemies (and just about all the ones that appear in decent numbers, which is where the XP comes from) and buffing none just makes it seem like "Oh sure, we'll fix monster density... and make them give less rewards."

    You don't see anything even slightly underhanded about flaunting the hordes of enemies right away then holding off on announcing most of the nerfs until after it was all live?

  9. #9

    Re: Patch 1.08 has dramatically improved Diablo 3's entertainment value.

    Quote Originally Posted by Steven Hazani View Post
    My point is that the benefit is solely coming from the alteration to XP bonuses, which is independent of what enemies or areas you get XP from. My response to him was but a small part of the whole, and by no means my entire point.

    Scorpions excluded, what this means is that you now get more XP from act 3. You would get more from 1-2 due to the monster density fixes but when you double the enemies and half the rewards that's called breaking even. Except it's diluted over twice as many enemies, making it still a nerf. Granted, not all the nerfs are 50% or greater, but there's not a single buff for the hard enemies in any of the in game areas. Not even one. Making say, those ghouls in act 1 worth less and the trees and berserkers worth more would actually make sense.

    Nerfing many enemies (and just about all the ones that appear in decent numbers, which is where the XP comes from) and buffing none just makes it seem like "Oh sure, we'll fix monster density... and make them give less rewards."

    You don't see anything even slightly underhanded about flaunting the hordes of enemies right away then holding off on announcing most of the nerfs until after it was all live?
    Not even slightly. What is the net result? More monsters, more XP, and more loot. It's what I was expecting, and it's what they delivered.

  10. #10
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    Re: Patch 1.08 has dramatically improved Diablo 3's entertainment value.

    Quote Originally Posted by slyraje View Post
    Not even slightly. What is the net result? More monsters, more XP, and more loot. It's what I was expecting, and it's what they delivered.
    Point of increased monster density = increase reward/time ratio of non act 3 areas.
    Effect of reduced rewards per unit = decrease reward/time ratio of non act 3 areas.

    When you put more enemies in an area then make those enemies less rewarding, that's moving things back towards breaking even (at best).

    The XP stacking change affects all enemies, aka act 3 is better.

    Remember how everyone was excited the MP system made act 1 and 2 good again, then it turned out it didn't because of underpopulation?

    Now if Blizzard were non one dimensional at all, they'd realize there are more parameters than enemy quantity. As such, they could make areas with small numbers of tough but rewarding enemies and those would still be productive. This would likely be a good model for Act 4, even. But all they can do is put large numbers of enemies on screen that are worth very little. Even that simple change would warrant more thought than "Oh, there's not dozens of enemies on screen at once here? Worthless." from the player base.

    If they really wanted variety in areas they'd mix it up even more. Surely a few of those optional areas could be repurposed to house hordes of elites or something?

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