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  1. #61
    IncGamers Member jmervyn's Avatar
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    Re: Pigford, or what's wrong with America.

    Quote Originally Posted by Stevinator View Post
    Bad priorities, especially those in hindsight, since no one said boo beforehand, are not a crime.
    Techno's (and Hillary's) allegation was specifically that the GOP had blood on their hands because they cut funding at the consulate. This was proven to be complete horsecrap beyond any doubt back in October.

    Furthermore, numerous people including Amb. Stevens protested what you're calling "bad priorities", and Hillary and others openly lied about their doing so. Are you doubling down on the horsecrap?
    Quote Originally Posted by Stevinator View Post
    You're counterdicting yourself, either Obama wanted to be attacked or he didn't.
    No, you're just being the dullard you typically act as, and trying to box me in when not even understanding the issues. Nobody wanted bodies. They wanted to maintain a "low profile" because they were "in bed" with Al Quaeda.
    Quote Originally Posted by Stevinator View Post
    You're not going to dispute that. Even you can see facts. This has happened before, it'll likely happen again, and it's not treason to be attacked.
    Counting shots fired at embassies, which does indeed happen regularly, is quite a bit different from an organized assault resulting in the death of the Ambassador. The last time we lost an ambassador was over 30 years ago, in Afghanistan, during a kidnapping attempt.
    Quote Originally Posted by Stevinator View Post
    Nor did Obama aid in the attack. We may have miscalculated in arming the wrong folks, but that's a mistake we seem to repeat over and over, and party affiliation doesn't seem to affect it.
    That's part of what's debatable. If Obama knew that he had hired Al Quaeda, headed by a Gitmo detainee, to guard the embassy then it does indeed potentially rise to treason; you don't hire your enemy to defend you. Honestly, though, that's not the only treasonous part - it's also the cover up and the disinterest in defense of the Ambassador and the compound that qualifies. Seriously, who appoints an open homosexual as Ambassador to a violently Islamic country?

    You keep saying treason is too much. Do you even know what it means? You certainly don't appear to.
    Quote Originally Posted by Stevinator View Post
    The argument you're saying i made I didn't ever make. I merely saying that they didn't increase security. I said that's different from decreasing it.
    Not only are you making a false argument on my part in turn, but you're also ignoring the facts. They never implemented correct security, even though not only were they supposed to by regulation, but with the full recognition of how dangerous the consulate's situation was. THEN they lied about their rationale. If you're not making an argument that I've just destroyed, please let me know what your argument actually is.
    Quote Originally Posted by Stevinator View Post
    Ha, you're saying Barry is a drinking buddy of Al Sharif? i think it's more of a the enemy of my enemy is my friend type of thing. We trained them thinking they would help us. All the more reason to not be there at all, since the whole region is effed.
    Nevertheless, we're providing aid & comfort to Al Quaeda - which DOES constitute treason. All that remains is to establish who approved doing so.
    Quote Originally Posted by Stevinator View Post
    I am not surprised that MSNBC ignored a story that would hurt the dems. That's another reason to ignore the garbage that has become TV news.
    Point being that both Amb. Stevens and the whistleblowers are the sort of Liberals I respect and knew - as someone put it, they live where Obama's fantasy-land buts up against reality. Stevens paid the price for his belief in the Arab Spring and the rebels in Libya; the whistleblowers are aghast to see that their superiors don't have the professionalism and honesty that they deserve to receive.
    Quote Originally Posted by Stevinator View Post
    That bad analogy aside, in this case, we had attempted to find people to partner with in the overthrowing of quaddafi. We seem to make that mistake over and over. It's not a crime, but I wish we would stop it. I think it's a dumb policy, and I've stated such before in the ron paul thread.
    Sure. However, our secret meetings with the Taliban doesn't rise to treason, because Bush pointedly never "declared war" on them (as they're servants to the Pakistani ISI) - where these are self-described members of an Al Quaeda franchise.
    Quote Originally Posted by Stevinator View Post
    Certainly nothing impeachable.
    OK, Steve, you keep rocking back and forth mumbling that. This isn't to say that Obama <will> be impeached over it; we don't have the guts as a Nation to do so.
    Quote Originally Posted by Stevinator View Post
    And I DON'T trust the government.
    More falsehoods on your part. Here's why: you are a Progressive because you want to put the Federal Gov't in the position of the ultimate authority in all matters, and have made a number of statements on a variety of issues to that effect. The Founders were correct in recognizing that as abysmal stupidity, which is why they attempted to cripple the Feds and make the individual States the authorities in all matters not obviously requiring Federal jurisdiction.

  2. #62
    IncGamers Member jmervyn's Avatar
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    Re: Pigford, or what's wrong with America.

    In sum:


    We have a nation full of moochers who pretty much ignore what atrocities are committed in their name, or even to them, as long as the Gov't cheese is promised.




    EDIT - since we're already discussing Benghazi here, the next in the drip-drip-drip of forced revelations:
    Obama administration sources explain Benghazi: “It’s actually closer to us being idiots”

    Nice try guys. Deliberately scotching your assorted response mechanisms at precisely the time they need to be used isn't "idiocy". That's the "treason" issue again.

    NOTE - I hadn't said THE WON, or even the Lioness of Tuzla, would be guilty of that particular charge. Maybe it's this Patrick Kennedy. The mud will stick, but there's a reason that Ollie North could have gone to jail and Reagan didn't.

    Leftists are still incredibly butthurt that North, or Scooter Libby for that matter, weren't incarcerated. Then again, they didn't consciously let their fellow civil servants get slaughtered and possibly raped.
    Last edited by jmervyn; 17-05-2013 at 19:03.

  3. #63
    IncGamers Member BobCox2's Avatar
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    Re: Pigford, or what's wrong with America.

    In Sum:
    ABC's big "scoop" on the Benghazi emails and the how the story pretty much fizzled out by the end of the week with the discovery that...
    Republicans were responsible for doctoring the supposed quotes from the emails that they published.

    Nice Try.

    But you failed.
    ABC News reported that Rhodes wrote: “We must make sure that the talking points reflect all agency equities, including those of the State Department, and we don’t want to undermine the FBI investigation. We thus will work through the talking points tomorrow morning at the Deputies Committee meeting.” The Weekly Standard reported that Rhodes "responded to the group, explaining that Nuland had raised valid concerns and advising that the issues would be resolved at a meeting of the National Security Council’s Deputies Committee the following morning."
    Whoever provided those quotes and paraphrases did so inaccurately, seemingly inventing the notion that Rhodes wanted the concerns of the State Department specifically addressed. Nuland, particularly, had expressed a desire to remove mentions of specific terrorist groups and CIA warnings about the increasingly dangerous assignment. Rhodes put no emphasis at all in his email on the State Department's concerns.
    If we assume that ABC and the Weekly Standard were given paraphrases of the emails rather than the actual text, it would appear as though the leaker took great pains to alter the meaning and words Rhodes actually wrote in order to invent scandal where none existed.


    Let's Call out the real lairs by name as the next step...
    Last edited by BobCox2; 20-05-2013 at 05:52.

  4. #64
    IncGamers Member jmervyn's Avatar
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    Re: Pigford, or what's wrong with America.

    Quote Originally Posted by BobCox2 View Post
    In Sum:
    ABC's big "scoop" on the Benghazi emails and the how the story pretty much fizzled out by the end of the week with the discovery that...
    Republicans were responsible for doctoring the supposed quotes from the emails that they published.

    Nice Try.

    But you failed.
    Because, after all, nothing says "respectable journalism" like two random bloggers from the far-Left "Crooks and Liars" website!

    If Major G. calls them out as lying, I'll consider it legit (funny how the site can't even bear to mention the name FOX)- but who's to say which e-mails are being leaked/presented/hidden? Remember, the GOP readers supplying the quote weren't allowed to copy or reference the e-mails, BECAUSE THE WHITE HOUSE WAS BIRD-DOGGING THEM THE WHOLE WAY.

    Could you recite the contents of a recent post of mine verbatim, without being able to read it, 8-Bob? There's a reason even Dems are saying there needs to be a special investigator appointed, but there's no chance in Hell that Holder will do so.

    EDIT - the facts of the matter, if you're at all interested.
    Last edited by jmervyn; 20-05-2013 at 13:05.

  5. #65
    IncGamers Member jmervyn's Avatar
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    Re: Pigford, or what's wrong with America.


  6. #66
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    Re: Pigford, or what's wrong with America.

    I agree Obama should be impeached, but it will never happen. How many US presidents have been tried for...anything?

  7. #67
    IncGamers Member jmervyn's Avatar
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    Re: Pigford, or what's wrong with America.

    Quote Originally Posted by stillman View Post
    I agree Obama should be impeached, but it will never happen. How many US presidents have been tried for...anything?
    That's quite true; I think I mentioned it previously. I can't recall who it was recently stating that America, having elected the first BLAAAACKK!@!! President, simply doesn't have the moral courage to fire him with cause.

    America is too in love with socialism, even among the TEA Party quadrant, to want the applecart upset. The President authorized gun-running to narco-terrorists in order to substantiate the Left's false argument that American gun dealers are to blame, and the populace yawned. The only reason the scandals have any impact now is because the vermin in the media were affected by one of them.

  8. #68
    Europe Trade Moderator krischan's Avatar
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    Re: Pigford, or what's wrong with America.

    Wow, now even the Tea Party is too socialistic for you.

    BTW, I don't believe in accuracy of the survey in your first link which says that 50% want Obama to be impeached, but even if it is true, no politician has the guts to try impeaching him because the evidence aren't strong enough to keep the people upset for long enough. It's just wishful thinking. There's much talk about it, however, with less substance than somebody should consider before making a judgement like that.

    I for myself think that the wiretapping incident was the most serious issue. The others are not as relevant, exaggerated or not his fault.

    The Tea Party is doomed. Sticking to one's ideals is generally a virtue, but it's a weakness in politics. First, it makes them predictable. The opponent can let them run into traps easily while others often aren't below lying, manipulating and cheating to reach their goals (respectively knowing that others will to that for them, without having to tell them)... with success!

    Second, you cannot enforce your opinion on others if they refuse, no matter if they are set in stone for you. There is nothing which isn't subject to be given up or traded for spmething else. That means, they will have to make compromises which typical Tea Party followers regard as abandoning one's ideals or even treason.

    Apart from that, in order to get any political meaning, they will have to replace one of the two other parties. That will certainly not be the democrats. If they make it, I seriously doubt that all Republicans will join the Tea Party. Many will share my concerns about their ability to act and prefer a party which has, well, let's call it more flexibility to get things done.

    Using your words, politics is shoveling shyte, but it's actually the shyte of our society, our flaws, weaknesses and evil. I believe that there is an evolutionary reason why rulers are like that and in particular, why the people are what they are.
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  9. #69
    IncGamers Member jmervyn's Avatar
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    Re: Pigford, or what's wrong with America.

    Quote Originally Posted by krischan View Post
    Wow, now even the Tea Party is too socialistic for you.
    Discussed previously more than once; did you forget? There's a goodly segment of the pseudo-Libertarian crowd who don't actually want THEIR stuff cut, but only the OTHER GUY's stuff cut. The GOP is famous for wanting corporate welfare via Defense spending; while it's more legitimate than that of the Left it's still crony-supporting socialist mechanism. The handful of actual "Reich Wing" racists are often in that faux segment, because they cloak true motives in small Gov't clothing.
    Quote Originally Posted by krischan View Post
    There's much talk about it, however, with less substance than somebody should consider before making a judgement like that.
    Of course. Many on the 'right' are simply bludgeoning the Left and media with the issues, because they've been rooting for the Administration heretofore, purely on the basis of partisan politics. The Left used to purport to be the advocates of open Gov't and free speech, yet they have completely ceded the high ground to the "right".
    Quote Originally Posted by krischan View Post
    I for myself think that the wiretapping incident was the most serious issue. The others are not as relevant, exaggerated or not his fault.
    You're mistaken, on all counts, but that's probably due to your sourcing. The wiretapping is actually the least serious, the only interesting part of which is that DoJ decided to claim FOX' James Rosen as a criminal in order to not disclose their actions.
    Quote Originally Posted by krischan View Post
    The Tea Party is doomed.
    Hardly. They metastasized, is all.
    Quote Originally Posted by krischan View Post
    That means, they will have to make compromises which typical Tea Party followers regard as abandoning one's ideals or even treason.
    This has merit, and goes to my original post. The 'traps' you refer to have already been sprung, like Pelosi citing Birchers and LaRouche nutters' actions as being those of TEA. However, there's quite a number of people who have been attracted to the Libertarian cause, and many will stick to it. They may (like me) be painted by their opposition as fanatical, mouth-frothing, nothing-but-teh-Anarchy types, but that's hyperbolic caricature. What's going to happen is that since Obamacare's cost is double what was claimed, and people will not only be suffering because of it but also suffering from his destroying the economy, the TEA's purpose will actually gain strength. Think about it - the Administration's assurances that you can trust Gov't, and that they're really looking out for <you>, have been dealt repeated body-blows to the point that even non-Progressive Leftists are questioning the Administration.
    Quote Originally Posted by krischan View Post
    If they make it, I seriously doubt that all Republicans will join the Tea Party.
    It remains to be seen, and it's simply a resurgence of the Conservative element. Goldwater was the high-water mark, but it's obvious that Reagan's aura was due to his conservative policies. GOP rank & file are pretty upset with the Progressive RINO establishment, who are currently looking to pass suicidal "Comprehensive" immigration law - it may not be much, but there's a good chance that the Senate could require even greater levels of election fraud to remain in Democrat hands.

    Still, it doesn't mean a thing, because the system is going to break down on its own accord at this point. It just remains to be seen how long it takes, and what things look like on the other side. I'm probably going to buy this:

  10. #70
    IncGamers Member jmervyn's Avatar
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    Re: Pigford, or what's wrong with America.

    This is openly categorized by the reporter as uncorroborated/rumor, but sounds completely believable. 'Specially now. Of course, it's old n00z.
    Quote Originally Posted by PJ Media
    The former diplomat who spoke with PJ Media regarded the whole enterprise as totally amateurish and likened it to the Mike Nichols film Charlie Wilson’s War about a clueless congressman who supplies Stingers to the Afghan guerrillas. “It’s as if Hillary and the others just watched that movie and said ‘Hey, let’s do that!’” the diplomat said.


    He added that he and his colleagues think the leaking of General David Petraeus’ affair with his biographer Paula Broadwell was timed to silence the former CIA chief on these matters.


    Regarding General Ham, military contacts of the diplomats tell them that AFRICOM had Special Ops “assets in place that could have come to the aid of the Benghazi consulate immediately (not in six hours).”


    Ham was told by the White House not to send the aid to the trapped men, but Ham decided to disobey and did so anyway, whereupon the White House “called his deputy and had the deputy threaten to relieve Ham of his command.”


    The White House motivation in all this is as yet unclear, but it is known that Ham retired quietly in April 2013 as head of AFRICOM.


    PJ Media recognizes this is largely hearsay, but the two diplomats sounded quite credible. One of them was in a position of responsibility in a dangerous area of Iraq in 2004.

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