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  1. #101
    Europe Trade Moderator krischan's Avatar
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    Re: Let's talk *** marriage!

    I only expect the state to do that if necessary, but if mods are supposed or even expected to do that as well, hmm...

    Seriously: With "necessary", I mean that the state is allowed and expected to apply force in a certain manner to defend the constitutional order, beyond what policemen are doing.
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  2. #102
    IncGamers Member BaronScarpia's Avatar
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    Re: Let's talk *** marriage!

    (I know that there are churches and faiths other than catholic, but I have more reading time of catholic dogma, so I gonna use it on this post for maybe reducing mistakes.)

    Maybe I said so a couple tenth of pages ago, but oh well... I did some reading, so I can rephrase again. Naming the legal marriage marriage, imo, was a terrible idea. In the end of the day it's a contract, it has nothing to do with the catholic sacrament, i.e. - it just shares the name marriage. In some countries - I believe - you can convert or have legal effects on marriage celbrated on a church.

    So, here we are, we have religious marriage - which I'll call "the Marriage" - because it was invented first. Then we have romans, iirc, that created some sort of contract to put rules on the marital society and called it marriage as well - the legal marriage. One is a spiritual ritual/sacrament and the other is a formal contract, a society - apples and oranges. The more religious you are, the more apples and oranges they will be.

    But why, o why they are apples and oranges? Imo, legal marriage should be called something else - like marital society, i.e. - because using the name of a sacrament for a contract, imo, is disrespectful-ish. It's like comparing a birth certificate/ getting a social security number with baptism. Completely different things, but yep, they involve some sort of "getting recognised".

    Now, with that cleared out, there's a sacrament called marriage that, in some religions, involves a man and a woman. Two men or a two women can't get a sacrament called same-sex relationship because it kinda doesn't exist and religions can't just create sacraments just like that (especially when they define something as a sin). Also, catholic religion, i.e., aren't that closed as some people thing. There are people that defend the creation and discussions are made on the topic for a long while, but the society changes on a much faster pace.

    Some religious leaders aren't against a union, as long as it isn't called marriage. In "On Heaven and Earth", by Jorge Bergoglio (aka Pope Francis) and Abraham Skorka, they defend this position.

    I saw Skorka openly voicing his opinion on an interview, clarifying that the Pope has the same opinion. They see it as a sin, but they aren't against the regulation of the union - just against using the name "marriage". On the other hand, they are very against adoption. Very.

    Personally, I'm against the use of name marriage outside the sacrament, but since the use it anyway... I'm in favor of the whole thing - legal marriage for anyone that wants to, adoption involved (I don't really read about the adoption subject a lot, to be honest, but I think it is very hard to be half in favor of this matter).

    I'm against forcing religions to administer sacraments that don't exist because... That's kinda impossible... As in, you can't be baptized twice, i.e. No law can force them.

    Sorry if I can't talk about other religions, but I really don't have enough information to pass.

    And I'm against weapons for mods.

  3. #103
    IncGamers Member BobCox2's Avatar
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    Re: Let's talk *** marriage!

    Quote Originally Posted by BaronScarpia View Post

    And I'm against weapons for mods.
    They already have Arms

  4. #104
    Europe Trade Moderator krischan's Avatar
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    Re: Let's talk *** marriage!

    As soon as all human beings have turned into angels and saints, I will put aside my arms, but keep them in arm's reach. After all, even angels are said to fall from grace from time to time.

    Religion can hold no claims on the term "marriage". The concept of humans binding themselves to a partner is even older than religion. In many cultures, it was enough if a women and a man declare themselves as married. If the church wants to get things separated, it should be them to find a new term for it, but I wouldn't have much of a problem to let the state do that.
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  5. #105
    IncGamers Member Dawnmaster's Avatar
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    Re: Let's talk *** marriage!

    Also, everything is innovated and renewed, even religion, so why cling so strongly to outdated values?

    You can't stop people from advancing, there will always be those who find a way,
    and after some time, some groups even grow up/out to be the new way that everybody follows.

  6. #106
    IncGamers Member BobCox2's Avatar
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    Re: Let's talk *** marriage!

    Quote Originally Posted by Dawnmaster View Post
    Also, everything is innovated and renewed, even religion, so why cling so strongly to outdated values?

    You can't stop people from advancing, there will always be those who find a way,
    and after some time, some groups even grow up/out to be the new way that everybody follows.
    Sorry not in agreement with all of the above after the ?.
    You can stop people from advancing. (see the dark ages)
    There will not always be those who can find a way.
    some groups even grow up/out to be the new way that everybody follows. (Not everyone and *** marriage is not going to take over, That sounds like a frightened Homo-Phobe. )
    Last edited by BobCox2; 14-11-2013 at 07:52.

  7. #107
    IncGamers Member Dawnmaster's Avatar
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    Re: Let's talk *** marriage!

    Quote Originally Posted by BobCox2 View Post
    Sorry not in agreement with all of the above after the ?.
    You can stop people from advancing. (see the dark ages)
    There will not always be those who can not find a way.
    some groups even grow up/out to be the new way that everybody follows. (Not everyone and *** marriage is not going to take over, That sounds like a frightened Homo-Phobe. )
    Hm, I think I misphrased what I wanted to say ^^

    I was referring to the fact that even religions (those who cling to outdated values most) have to innovate and renew in these time of advancement we live in now (not specifically about "happy" marriage, just in general)

  8. #108
    IncGamers Member BobCox2's Avatar
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    Re: Let's talk *** marriage!

    In the quote I have a 2 neg in RE:#2

    Yeah I knew what U ment ... but the way I read that, I wanted to let you know

  9. #109
    Europe Trade Moderator krischan's Avatar
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    Re: Let's talk *** marriage!

    Old organizations have a problem with innovations which affect their dogmas. The bible explicitely condemns homosexuality, so the church has no scope for that topic.

    In contrast, e.g. science has no problem with correcting itself or even throwing over everything (like when the relativity theory and quantum mechanics have been developed). It's essential for science to question itself all the time, although fundamental innovations might need the older generation to become extinct. That's not a problem of science, however, but of people.
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  10. #110
    IncGamers Site Pal BipolarChemist's Avatar
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    Re: Let's talk *** marriage!

    Science isn't about proving something right, it's about proving it wrong.
    Then I just won't b​other!

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