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  1. #31
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    Re: Why the proposed item changes don't change a thing.

    I think everyone (including blizzard) is targeting the wrong issue. No matter how much they want to mess with items, or make legendaries that have a chance to summon Meph, baal and Diablo at the same time or turn you into the second form of belial, the problem is much deeper than that.

    The problem is tied to the lack of character customization options and barebones mechanics, I mean... we dont even have elemental effects, skills themselves convert damage into whatever elemental it does. There isnt anything that rings: "Ah that would be great for a [name of build] [class]!" Because there isnt the feeling of having a build in D3, its hard to define what your characters are if not a jumbled mess of loadout skills. With shallow game mechanics such as this, there isnt anything that will trump sheer damage numbers with those game mechanics, which is what crit dmg provides, and that affix alone has FUBARED the whole itemzation, maybe that wouldnt have happened if there were more options for character progression and customization but no, blizzard decided that permance of builds is not good for the good ol grandma that is going to play Diablo 3.

    All that "fun" legendary items will provide are more AH speculation that will throw their prices to the billion+ gold price tag while also being astromonically hard to find yourself... simply because it is all that there is of remotely interesting, the rest are just boring +stat sticks, maybe they would be something more fun if there were more complex and deep game mechanics but no, its all about critical damage... the key to all this mess was about augmenting your build with items, not the other way around but that ship has sailed.


    The shallow game mechanics and lack of character customization will hinder any attempt to create any interesting itemzation, and its all so deeply rooted into the game, this is a major game design catastrophe that i would never expect that a billionaire game company would ever commit, there is hardly any redemption to it, the only choice here is to get the game back into the drawing board.
    Last edited by Kiroptus; 10-03-2013 at 04:26.

  2. #32
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    Re: Why the proposed item changes don't change a thing.

    Quote Originally Posted by Kiroptus View Post
    I think everyone (including blizzard) is targeting the wrong issue. No matter how much they want to mess with items, or make legendaries that have a chance to summon Meph, baal and Diablo at the same time or turn you into the second form of belial, the problem is much deeper than that.

    The problem is tied to the lack of character customization options and barebones mechanics, I mean... we dont even have elemental effects, skills themselves convert damage into whatever elemental it does. There isnt anything that rings: "Ah that would be great for a [name of build] [class]!" Because there isnt the feeling of having a build in D3, its hard to define what your characters are if not a jumbled mess of loadout skills. With shallow game mechanics such as this, there isnt anything that will trump sheer damage numbers with those game mechanics, which is what crit dmg provides, and that affix alone has FUBARED the whole itemzation, maybe that wouldnt have happened if there were more options for character progression and customization but no, blizzard decided that permance of builds is not good for the good ol grandma that is going to play Diablo 3.

    All that "fun" legendary items will provide are more AH speculation that will throw their prices to the billion+ gold price tag while also being astromonically hard to find yourself... simply because it is all that there is of remotely interesting, the rest are just boring +stat sticks, maybe they would be something more fun if there were more complex and deep game mechanics but no, its all about critical damage... the key to all this mess was about augmenting your build with items, not the other way around but that ship has sailed.


    The shallow game mechanics and lack of character customization will hinder any attempt to create any interesting itemzation, and its all so deeply rooted into the game, this is a major game design catastrophe that i would never expect that a billionaire game company would ever commit, there is hardly any redemption to it, the only choice here is to get the game back into the drawing board.
    You, sir, just nailed it. The only thing what is left to ask is, if Blizzard themselves were/are too stupid to see what has gone wrong, or they intentially dumbed the game down that way.

    Anyway, everyone who says this game will improve over time is completely wrong and just proves by saying that, that he has no clue. The only, and really one and only thing, that could save the game is a completely redesign to the core that doesn't leave one stone on the other. Will they do it? Probably not, because

    A) They might not even be aware what the game needs (see above)
    B) They don't want/can't admit they screwed up royally with D3
    C) Planned console version of the game pretty much petrifies the current kid's version build of Diablo 3.

  3. #33
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    Re: Why the proposed item changes don't change a thing.

    Quote Originally Posted by SnickerSnack View Post
    Maybe this is just a grammar issue, but it doesn't have to be decent 'every' time, does it? I'd easily settle for decent sometimes.

    My last few leg/set items were just trash.
    I pretty much meant 'decent every time', not that you would be useful for every player. Unless my memory serves me wrong D2 uniques and sets stats were not that varying. If something dropped you pretty much knew what you had, there wasnt the risk of a trashy version of that item, you either wanted that unique or you didnt. Now it seems like when a legendary drops, you look at it and just shake your head thinking better luck next time it drops.

    i agree with the others that itemization is weak. this DPS hunt wouldnt be that hard to fix, cap DPS. Make primary stats raise that cap lvl, sure it would take some balancing, create a affix that increases max DPS, just like D2 allowed players to go over max resistance with certain items. Still allow insane DPS but it takes some synergy between your gear. And to placate the 'kiddy proof' idea that could show somewhere what max DPS could, caps removed, or something.

    Paragon lvls pretty much removed GF/MF stats on items so our useful stats pool has actually shrunk.

  4. #34
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    Re: Why the proposed item changes don't change a thing.

    I am going to be so amused if Blizzard's idea of customization via paragon levels will basically be post-level 60 skill points and it will be enough to pacify the majority of the "zomg customization where?" crowd.

    It was a bit depressing when that happened with paragon levels and "zomg progression where?" crowd, but I think it will just be funny this time around.

  5. #35
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    Re: Why the proposed item changes don't change a thing.

    That is the main problem with D3's chaotic pos-release development... they just keep adding things over things over things... It was hinted that paragons will offer some skill point-alike customization, but the paragon system itself was already a band-aid fix to another problem, now this band-aid feature will have some extra feature that is going to be the band-aid to another overlooked design issue of the game (lack of character customization)...

    I mean... Am I the only one who finds this kind of development just plain shoddy for a company with the caliber of blizzard? It really feels like they have no clue on what to do with the game, its like the game is still in beta, almost alpha levels of game mechanics, nothing seems defined or set in stone, there isnt a clear direction anymore, Diablo 3 just had to make so many things to fill up Blizzard's agenda: AH-microtransactions experiment, bringing new players to the franchise, bringing extremely casual players to the franchise, being blizzard's way of entering the console market, catter to the MMO-WoW crowd and being the sequel to Diablo 2 (tho this last one wasnt too important for them, only the title). It wanted to be everything but it is just nothing at all, its a jack of all trades and a bad one at being that.

    I just cant see this going anywhere, it is fun to watch what is happening to the game but not playing the game itself, there is some kind of morbid curiosity about this whole fiasco, it just shows that even big corporations are not infallible, even something that was set to be a clear success as the sequel to Diablo 2, can just fall like this if not given the proper development care and if given the ammount of corporate meddling in the development that D3 received.

  6. #36
    IncGamers Member sneakytails's Avatar
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    Re: Why the proposed item changes don't change a thing.

    Spot on Kiroptus.

    One way to relieve the pressure on the bad itemization or dependency on upper level legendaries would have been to have jewels, runes and charms in the game. More things to find and twink with. FIND not buy.

    The most important thing they would do is allow players to overcome gear checks on their characters and do it afford-ably with their own effort. Being able to add sockets to your items is also part and parcel to this idea.

    How many times is a character or build not viable with a few missing stats? too many times that's what.

    Resist all charms and jewels, life on hit jewels, regen, etc, etc. The possibilities are endless.

    These things should have been in the game on launch!

  7. #37
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    Re: Why the proposed item changes don't change a thing.

    But thats the thing, its true we dont EVEN have ways to twink our items or affix bonuses, but the main problem here is that we dont have ways to twink our own characters into something we can identify with! All we do is to identify them as an Int, Dex or Str based character, the rest is to hoard CC, CD and Attack speed. Crit Damage is making characters deal million+ damage numbers, holy hell why so much numbers and discrepancy if someone doesnt rely on this particular affix?

    Everyone is too reliant on items and changes to it, but again, the main problems are lack of character customization and shallow game mechanics, no ammount of "cool" items or twinking options will change that, there is an "RPG" part on this genre and there is none of that. If we had charms (talisman) or jewels, nothing would change... the mechanics are so shallow that most "fun" legendaries are just about procs, since the way how the skills behave its pretty much the only way to do it.

    There is also the issue of having everything bound to weapon damage, this generates SO much problems its even hard to point all the problems that this design choice generates. If we had proper and sane damage numbers to gather a grip on where is our targeted damage level to balance it from there we could generate so much more possibilities for the game but no...

  8. #38
    IncGamers Member sneakytails's Avatar
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    Re: Why the proposed item changes don't change a thing.

    I agree with you totally, I am just saying what I would do in this situation. Allowing players to socket their gear and get the res or crit damage or chance they need via jewels or perhaps charms would be a step in the right direction.

    Yes its totally true about everything else you mentioned. The core mechanics, everything. But this ship is not headed back to the dry docks for a re-fitting its headed out to sea and listing heavily to one side, (for blizzard) its either save the ship now or just flat out go down with the ship! No turning back I'm afraid.

    Having a skill based system to get our damage such as d2 would have been a much much better system. Going through the game with self found blues like you could in d2 would really be great.

    You have to understand that for many long long time d2 players (many of us still play d2 to this day) that we really want D3 to succeed and have longevity. Make no mistake my posts are intensely critical of blizzard but its a love/hate relationship not matter what I do or say, just the way it is with a 10 year plus affair.

    Because of this many of us are willing to come back and give second chances IF certain things could come around. Just the eternal optimist in me I guess, although watch out if its late on a weeknight!

  9. #39
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    Re: Why the proposed item changes don't change a thing.

    Well I wish I was as optimistic as you are, but I am willing to see where this ship is going to, we have to wait and see...

  10. #40
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    Re: Why the proposed item changes don't change a thing.

    The dirty little secret in video games is most testing focuses on the early game. This is because its the early word of mouth that matters most when it comes to sales. If the buyers first couple weeks with the product are great, that will drive sales. Thats why the beta only involved up to killing Leoric. Thats probably as far as the deep gameplay testing ever was. Even the venerated D2 was only extensively playtested up to the a1 den quest. it took them years to work out endgame balance issues with d2. It couldve taken a much shorter amount of time, but it wouldnt have driven sales anyway. Lets face it, most gaming companies are just a cash grab, they spit out a half baked game and never try to fix the endgame problems. Blizzard makes the attempt at least.

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