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  1. #21
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    Re: Why the proposed item changes don't change a thing.

    Bottom line, Blizzard will have to completely redesign legendaries again.

    What a legacy Jay Wilson has left behind, they every system needs to be redesigned 1 year after release. Blizzard might be better off starting all over with this game. Treating the cause, not the symptoms, so to say.

  2. #22
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    Re: Why the proposed item changes don't change a thing.

    Quote Originally Posted by Chiron View Post
    I must be missing something but why can't an item level 63 Hellrack compete with a Manticore? Suppose they raise the base stats and the IAS&Damage bonuses to the same level as Manticore, then Hellrack would have virtually the same DPS potential (with Dex&CHD roll) as Manticore. And it would have the nice rooting bonus.
    Manticore has a weird property that's not listed in the tooltip where it comes with a socket, but can also roll a socket. So you can stick two emeralds into it, for double the crit damage. I think it's the only item in the game like this, as generally items with specific affixes cannot roll other affixes that overlap with it. Doing so would actually create a really weird item system that would increase the amount of bad items but create really weird distributions of really good items at the very top percentile -- imagine if each affix was independent of the others, such that you could roll double-crit chance on bracers, or something. Point is, Manticore violates this rule by having a socket, and being able to roll another one.

  3. #23
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    Re: Why the proposed item changes don't change a thing.

    To be interesting the item system has to complement the skill system. As is, every build for every class chases the same affixes. So new and better items just means higher numbers of mainstat, res, trifectas, etc.

  4. #24
    IncGamers Member Azzure's Avatar
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    Re: Why the proposed item changes don't change a thing.

    I'd just like to chip in here and say that I agree that the majority of the ideas in Travis's post about itemization (particularly the end where he discusses the AH and finding items yourself) will not help the item-system in the mid-ongoing term.

    The simple fact being that increasing the quality of items will not diminish the AH's ability to provide far easier and far more efficient than self-found items. Why? Because these same "easier to get quality items" will find themselves on the AH also, driving the prices of good items down, hence making the AH still the best avenue.

  5. #25
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    Re: Why the proposed item changes don't change a thing.

    Quote Originally Posted by Katniss View Post
    You keep fixating on the one instance where it's clear that an item will need to be introduced to beat out a currently existing one. We get the point that the Manticore is ridiculously overpowered. No changing of any existing non-ilvl63 bows, crossbows, or hand crossbows will change that.
    Goal: Make people excited about drops.

    Current behavior: Players are excited about a few Manticores (nowhere near all), and no other crossbows.

    Could it be, perhaps that every other ranged weapon is incredibly underpowered? Yes it is, because nerfing Manticore will not suddenly make those other ranged weapons exciting. It will just mean everything is equally boring.

    And I am using it as an example simply because it illustrates the matter conveniently. I could have just as easily picked any other. Helms? No ias if not Mempo's (or Andy's), GTFO. Bracers? No ias/move speed if not Lacuni's, GTFO. Hell, for that matter tal's armor and inna pants are used off type for the ias.

    And of course you'll say well nerf the ias, herpity derp, ignoring the point that those items are only exciting because of the mods they could not otherwise have but that those specific items do. It isn't just ias either. Witching Hour, Ice Climbers...

    It doesn't matter that Dark Mage Shade could get 170-200 Int, it still loses to Mempo's (so does Storm Crow).

    Quote Originally Posted by Chiron View Post
    I must be missing something but why can't an item level 63 Hellrack compete with a Manticore? Suppose they raise the base stats and the IAS&Damage bonuses to the same level as Manticore, then Hellrack would have virtually the same DPS potential (with Dex&CHD roll) as Manticore. And it would have the nice rooting bonus.

    The B.Net link TheDestructor posted above included a lot of nice legendaries which would be awesome if they had item level 63 stats. So if the devs make this item level change the way I think (and hope), it clearly proves that they "get it" and know what they're doing. Although I'd certainly prefer them to make these changes a bit faster.
    Manticores can get two sockets, which no other crossbow can.

    Incidentally, even if they did add the possibility of a second socket to a Hellrack (which is different mods, not higher mods, and therefore outside the scope of what they are proposing) you need both random mods to line up = crit damage and a socket. Whereas with a Manticore, you just need the second socket, leaving the other slot open and ensuring many more Manticores are good (Int trolling aside).

  6. #26
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    Re: Why the proposed item changes don't change a thing.

    Quote Originally Posted by Azzure View Post
    I'd just like to chip in here and say that I agree that the majority of the ideas in Travis's post about itemization (particularly the end where he discusses the AH and finding items yourself) will not help the item-system in the mid-ongoing term.

    The simple fact being that increasing the quality of items will not diminish the AH's ability to provide far easier and far more efficient than self-found items. Why? Because these same "easier to get quality items" will find themselves on the AH also, driving the prices of good items down, hence making the AH still the best avenue.
    Sure but players who like to find their gear themselves will be happier

  7. #27
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    Re: Why the proposed item changes don't change a thing.

    I honestly see "sockets best item affix" as a bad thing - especially when the socket filler is ALSO the same for each character.. They should just reduce crit damage by 50% or something. And actually make class-specific ideas (where a mod is USEFULL as a tertiary mod for another class, however amazing for the class it is meant for).

  8. #28
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    Re: Why the proposed item changes don't change a thing.

    This afternoon i realized something, and i think im ok with the idea of less drops if they are going to be at least decent every time. Today i got another legendary drop, it was Manajuma's Carving Knife, but instead of being excite that something dropped for my WD i was dreading ID'ing it. I dont even have stellar gear but all i thought was this is probably gonna suck, like too many legendaries that have dropped. Lucky for me it was an upgrade, but i felt more relieved than ecstatic.

  9. #29
    IncGamers Member SnickerSnack's Avatar
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    Re: Why the proposed item changes don't change a thing.

    Quote Originally Posted by PearlJamaholic View Post
    going to be at least decent every time
    Maybe this is just a grammar issue, but it doesn't have to be decent 'every' time, does it? I'd easily settle for decent sometimes.

    My last few leg/set items were just trash.

  10. #30
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    Re: Why the proposed item changes don't change a thing.

    The itemization in D3 is just way too linear, no amount of current implementation will fix it until they come up with new ways to increase efficiency through new affixes that allow more possibilities. As it stands right now, players have 4 DPS stats to get, crit chance, crit hit dmg, primary, IAS. This game is nothing but hitting a certain resist point, hitting x amount of life then getting as much DPS as possible. Its nothing but a DPS fest, there is 0 thinking at all, no breakpoints to consider, very few skills that are worthwhile for each class.


    As long as every player is forced into the same big three DPS boosting stats, the itemization will still be a problem because items that don't possesses them, they're automatically discarded.

    Making every legendary Ilvl 63 scalable, fixes nothing in the long run. The entire itemization needs to be cleaned up, especially class specific items rolling stats that are useless.

    Weapon dps affixes need to be straight up streamlined, too many factors must happen before a weapon is useful, you not only need multiple dmg modifiers but also need socket, crithitdmg, lifesteal. Enhanced damage % in D2 was the right direction, it was simple, 150% on a weapon made it useable, 250-300% made it godly.
    Last edited by Golbez2; 10-03-2013 at 03:00.

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