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  1. #11
    Diablo: IncGamers Member MYK's Avatar
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    Re: The unintentional/intentional magic of Diablo 2

    Quote Originally Posted by TopHatCat64 View Post
    Thoughts?
    I don't think it's that important to the community that people had to dig and pull apart bits of D2. If we had known what the inner workings are, it would have been a lot easier for *everyone* to do what they wanted: beat the game. The fiddling modding guys still would have tinkered with the game anyways, because that's what they do in every game community... unless it's D3 and you can't, much. Sigh.

    I think they did the important thing: shipped a good game. That's a lot more important than proper documentation, modding support, multi-player, and whatever else - you know, unless one of those other things is a core tenant to your game, so adjust accordingly.

    Judging by the huge effort from Blizzard to make a successor to D2, these games aren't easy to make. It looks like they took the opposite approach this time: They've got the engine working, and everything is nice and straightforward most of the time, but games are more than engines.

    D2 is a good game because it's more than just graphics and text on a screen running on some engine on your computer. Razortail has it's own color, uses and place in the player's mind. Does a D3 item have the same thing? Most of them just look like some bell curve, power:rarity generated affix soup thing. Razortail is almost breathing by comparison.

  2. #12
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    Re: The unintentional/intentional magic of Diablo 2

    D2 is a very good game with addictive qualities but there are many games like that. What made d2 special was battle.net. Bnet circa 2000 was cutting edge in streamlining the process of creating clans and entire communities. With a vibrant community base, d2 became special.D3 is on bnet 2.0, which lacks clan and community tools. Without interaction with other people pulling them back in, d3 becomes just another game to beat and throw away.

  3. #13
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    Re: The unintentional/intentional magic of Diablo 2

    If torchlight 2 had a bnet 1.0, it would become quite popular. Its definitely a better game than d3. But no bnet equivalent means it also wont become special. I cant comment on poe's community as i have not played it. I may download it this weekend to check out its community tools.

  4. #14
    IncGamers Member FredOfErik's Avatar
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    Re: The unintentional/intentional magic of Diablo 2

    Quote Originally Posted by Fizoo View Post
    D2 is a very good game with addictive qualities but there are many games like that. What made d2 special was battle.net. Bnet circa 2000 was cutting edge in streamlining the process of creating clans and entire communities. With a vibrant community base, d2 became special.D3 is on bnet 2.0, which lacks clan and community tools. Without interaction with other people pulling them back in, d3 becomes just another game to beat and throw away.
    no doubt that this made it for tons of people and created an entirely new dimension for gaming, but we are currently posting in the single player forum where some people might not share same enthusiam about bnet

  5. #15
    IncGamers Member japanzaman's Avatar
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    Re: The unintentional/intentional magic of Diablo 2

    The game is HARD. It's not tailored for newbies, and takes a considerable amount of knowledge and patience to reach the highest levels or take a completely untwinked HC character through hell. Actually, just beating the original game on normal sc is tough on the first time through- remember the first time you ran into Duriel?

    The game is UNFORGIVING. Glitches, overpowered enemies (dolls, gloams, Diablo), bad luck. Doesn't matter. You lose tons of exp or your entire character depending on what you are playing. Throw in server lag, pkers, hacks, dupes, and you get a very real microcosm of the real world. Thriving in that environment is both rewarding and addictive.

    The game can be SUBLIME. Randomness is really the carrot that keeps the mule plowing. You really don't know what's going to drop today. Probably nothing. Probably.

    People like it for different reasons. I've never been a social animal regarding this game. I like going solo. Always have, always will. Others like breaking down code, others like pissing people off. Doesn't matter. We're all still here, so let's enjoy it while we are.

  6. #16
    IncGamers Member felixbavaria's Avatar
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    Re: The unintentional/intentional magic of Diablo 2

    The D2 philosophy is like the opposite of "everyone's a winner". It's frustrating in the beginning but exceptionally rewarding in the end.

    Also, the sheer amount of randomness is amazing. While modern games do have tough enemies, it seems that you are not going to encounter a random cursed extra strong archer pack backed up by extra fast melee enemies, and get a magical short sword as reward.

  7. #17
    IncGamers Member Korlic's Avatar
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    Re: The unintentional/intentional magic of Diablo 2

    I dont think Blizz withheld this info intentionally, rather they focused on other aspects of the game. As we all know IAS was broken in v.1.00 of this game, and I think Blizzard corrected these things more as a chore than anything else really. If they withheld anything it was prolly to slow the discovery of OP builds, that would mean they would have to rebalance the game yet again. My father is a computer programmer and he says laziness is what drives programmers

    I have yet to play D3, but I could imagine a lot of this has changed with that title, simply because Blizz wants to make it more accessible.

    I guess the development of RPGs is similar to that of FPS in the sense that the players are spoken down to in some ways. Here is a funny yet in my mind thought provoking illustration of said development in the FPS games:



    I guess you could compare it to how builds, research etc. are becomming less and less important in RPGs like D3.

  8. #18
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    Re: The unintentional/intentional magic of Diablo 2

    What really sets D2 apart from the others for me is the complexity of the item system. D2 just offers so much. So many affixes, certain breakpoints for ias, fcr, oskills, chance to cast, auras, etc. I enjoy planning a character with certain items in mind. Not so much the 'ohh, items? I'll just go along and use whatever I find' type of approach that other ARPGs seem to have taken.

    Many of the items are also really unique and special. You tend to remember their names and what they do.
    I refitted my Torchlight 2 glaivelander two weeks ago with over +228% poison skill damage. Yet that is sort of the only thing I remember about the items. Don't remember their names, or what they are, except for that stat and also picked the stuff that gave the biggest boost to life, and maybe mana and fcr. And thats it. Compared with Diablo 2 that is sort of lame.

    Also I really like runewords. See, whenever a rune drop, it gives you a choice to make. Supposing a windforce and a vex rune were to be of the same rarity, there are multiple ways to use a vex rune but only a limited way to use a windforce and the choice is up to us. I like that choice, rather than having some rare item drop that I don't really want. Runewords are there pretty much only in D2.

    I have no idea how the other games dropped the ball with itemization like this. Okay they want to appeal to casuals fine, but they could still have done that and made an interesting item system. Disappointing really.

  9. #19
    IncGamers Member felixbavaria's Avatar
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    Re: The unintentional/intentional magic of Diablo 2

    Quote Originally Posted by zaphodbrx View Post
    I refitted my Torchlight 2 glaivelander two weeks ago with over +228% poison skill damage. Yet that is sort of the only thing I remember about the items. Don't remember their names, or what they are, except for that stat and also picked the stuff that gave the biggest boost to life, and maybe mana and fcr. And thats it. Compared with Diablo 2 that is sort of lame.
    Good example. Imagine +% PSD could spawn in D2 on a crappy blue item you find in Act I Normal, it would be just silly.

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