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  1. #21
    Europe Trade Moderator krischan's Avatar
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    Re: Russian Meteor Impacts

    as well as corrupt policemen.

    Quote Originally Posted by BobCox2 View Post
    I like the ways the Russians are doing it.

    it's Capitalistic.
    That was sarcasm, and you don't have a slightly romantic view of corrupt societies, right? You know, corruption is only good for those few who receive the bribes or who are rich, it's not a Robin Hood thing (which is a romanticizing as well BTW). That may be 10% of the people whie the other 90% suffer from it.

    For example, what would you think if you want a driving license and driving examiner expects an envelope with $5,000 without having to ask for it, else he lets you fail?

    I don't like paying or being sentenced for something which I haven't done. That would invoke my spite, anger and hate, just like for having to pay bribes to get things done or to be safe from them. These things are among the worst enemies of prosperity and development in a society and I expect the state to take very great efforts to prevent and fight that, by producing an environment in which it pays off to be honest, preferably out of conviction. For some people, only fear of punishment helps, however, and if it doesn't, they have to be sent to jail.

    [/serious]
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  2. #22
    IncGamers Member jmervyn's Avatar
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    Re: Russian Meteor Impacts

    Quote Originally Posted by Dawnmaster View Post
    I wonder, with all the current tech in the world, we have gps/bluetooth/on board computer etc, why don't all new cars come standard with a camera (or multiple cameras), it's not that they're expensive or anything?
    Well, there's a couple of issues at play, and I've gone all ranty about them previously. One is consumer lock-in, and the other is keeping the consumer ignorant. Many cars already have a rear-view camera, but as far as I'm aware you can't download the recordings.
    Quote Originally Posted by Dawnmaster View Post
    It would certainly provide a lot more correct answers as to what really happened pre-accident? Allowing laws to be changed and cars to be secured to the utmost accuracy?
    That's the 'black box', integral to all automobiles already, and more along the lines of my favorite tooth-gnasher, the "Check Engine" light. Rental car companies already own and punitively utilize this information, but consumers aren't allowed to find it under normal circumstances. Instead, you only find out when it's being used against you in some fashion.

    Personally, I would be happy to have a 'black box' in my car, even if settling an insurance claim involved my having to provide the captured data to an insurance company. In like fashion, I don't want to have to take my car to the dealer in order to have the more esoteric "Check Engine" codes decrypted ($60/hour to connect what isn't much different from a USB)

    Quote Originally Posted by BobCox2 View Post
    I like the ways the Russians are doing it.

    it's Capitalistic.

    True Black Markets are like that. You know after the official ones fail,
    or Anarchy as some here put it.
    Quote Originally Posted by krischan View Post
    That was sarcasm, and you don't have a slightly romantic view of corrupt societies, right?
    With Bob, one can never be too sure. Point of fact, he's discussing exactly what I was abusing Saro about. The Russian market really is capitalism in action, and while I'd prefer a little less Western "civility" per my description to Dawnmaster above, I don't know how many "Anarchists" would really fancy a society where you essentially do not trust your fellow citizens to follow social and legal convention.

    It sounds a lot better than it is. I guess. To people who've never lived it.

  3. #23
    IncGamers Member Ash Housewares's Avatar
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    Re: Russian Meteor Impacts

    Quote Originally Posted by krischan View Post
    [/serious]
    eww gross

  4. #24
    Europe Trade Moderator krischan's Avatar
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    Re: Russian Meteor Impacts

    Quote Originally Posted by Ash Housewares View Post
    eww gross
    Surprised?
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  5. #25
    IncGamers Member Stevinator's Avatar
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    Re: Russian Meteor Impacts

    You can buy the gizmo that tells you what the code is for the check engine light. they are fairly cheap. Auto-zone and equivalent will let you borrow theirs for free, because it usually means you buying an O2 sensor or some such BS.

  6. #26
    IncGamers Member BobCox2's Avatar
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    Re: Russian Meteor Impacts

    Quote Originally Posted by jmervyn View Post
    Well, there's a couple of issues at play, and I've gone all ranty about them previously. One is consumer lock-in, and the other is keeping the consumer ignorant. Many cars already have a rear-view camera, but as far as I'm aware you can't download the recordings.
    That's the 'black box', integral to all automobiles already, and more along the lines of my favorite tooth-gnasher, the "Check Engine" light. Rental car companies already own and punitively utilize this information, but consumers aren't allowed to find it under normal circumstances. Instead, you only find out when it's being used against you in some fashion.

    Personally, I would be happy to have a 'black box' in my car, even if settling an insurance claim involved my having to provide the captured data to an insurance company. In like fashion, I don't want to have to take my car to the dealer in order to have the more esoteric "Check Engine" codes decrypted ($60/hour to connect what isn't much different from a USB)

    With Bob, one can never be too sure. Point of fact, he's discussing exactly what I was abusing Saro about. The Russian market really is capitalism in action, and while I'd prefer a little less Western "civility" per my description to Dawnmaster above, I don't know how many "Anarchists" would really fancy a society where you essentially do not trust your fellow citizens to follow social and legal convention.

    It sounds a lot better than it is. I guess. To people who've never lived it.
    Well you pay your police and the camera is insurance.


    and No Kris

    This is Sarcam.

    Last edited by BobCox2; 23-02-2013 at 03:09.

  7. #27
    IncGamers Member Dawnmaster's Avatar
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    Re: Russian Meteor Impacts

    Quote Originally Posted by jmervyn View Post
    With Bob, one can never be too sure. Point of fact, he's discussing exactly what I was abusing Saro about. The Russian market really is capitalism in action, and while I'd prefer a little less Western "civility" per my description to Dawnmaster above, I don't know how many "Anarchists" would really fancy a society where you essentially do not trust your fellow citizens to follow social and legal convention.

    It sounds a lot better than it is. I guess. To people who've never lived it.
    Well actually, if I were to trust all other drivers on the road, there would never be any problems.
    It is because people are stupid/lazy/ignorant/aggressive/adrenalinejunky/... who come in circumstances that cause accidents.

    I think however, that most people misunderstood my camera idea, it is not supposed to be for garage/police/insurance to use, it is supposed to be for private use only, the owner of the car is the only one who has access to it, and he/she can use it the data on it.
    (ofcourse, in extreme situations, you'd still have the option to hack the black box)

    Whenever there is an accident, and he/she did something wrong that caused the accident, either with multiple parties, the others will want to show their videos, and in an accident alone, if you don't want to show your video, you clearly caused the accident yourself so?

    I think this solves all privacy problems? Perhaps a bit stupid and simple, but it sounds like it could work.

  8. #28
    IncGamers Member BobCox2's Avatar
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    Re: Russian Meteor Impacts

    Well we can buy insurance or look out for ourselves.

    The Universe throws tRaSh at us pretty often.

    and insurance calls that AN Act of God.

    I'm kind of an Atheist when it comes to contract law.
    Just say what you will and wil not cover if you really making a contract to insure and go broke if you fail.

    Bailing out insurance and banks makes me want to get out of them.

    Or is that just me?

    P.S. Dawnmaster we did not misunderstand so much as we went 0ff-Topic
    Last edited by BobCox2; 23-02-2013 at 07:56.

  9. #29
    IncGamers Member jmervyn's Avatar
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    Re: Russian Meteor Impacts

    Quote Originally Posted by Stevinator View Post
    You can buy the gizmo that tells you what the code is for the check engine light. they are fairly cheap.
    Sure, but when you have an on-board computer and a digital readout, the fact that such a basic capability isn't pre-installed shows just how corrupt the automakers really are.

    Did you ever see the movie "Tucker"? Again, highlighting the problem with absolute Libertarian Capitalism; companies will naturally try to create & enforce monopolies rather than allow the market to operate 'properly'.

    Quote Originally Posted by Dawnmaster View Post
    Well actually, if I were to trust all other drivers on the road, there would never be any problems.
    Not so much. There's always an element of uncertainty, even if all drivers were of the 'good' and 'safe' variety.
    Quote Originally Posted by Dawnmaster View Post
    Whenever there is an accident, and he/she did something wrong that caused the accident, either with multiple parties, the others will want to show their videos, and in an accident alone, if you don't want to show your video, you clearly caused the accident yourself so?
    No, I got what you are saying and concur, but I think there's limits. At present I'm pretty sure that rental car companies use their vehicular "black box" as a punitive mechanism to enforce their policy - you can't lie about following the rules when the car itself shows that you drove it over the speed limit, outside the distance restriction, or whatever.

  10. #30
    IncGamers Member Dawnmaster's Avatar
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    Re: Russian Meteor Impacts

    Quote Originally Posted by jmervyn View Post
    Sure, but when you have an on-board computer and a digital readout, the fact that such a basic capability isn't pre-installed shows just how corrupt the automakers really are.
    Did you ever see the movie "Tucker"? Again, highlighting the problem with absolute Libertarian Capitalism; companies will naturally try to create & enforce monopolies rather than allow the market to operate 'properly'.
    Would this fall in the same category as the (supposed?) fact that oil companies are slowing down the development of electric based cars?

    Quote Originally Posted by jmervyn View Post
    Not so much. There's always an element of uncertainty, even if all drivers were of the 'good' and 'safe' variety.
    Yeah, I guess you're right, they're always be an act of nature, or a software/hardware problem.
    Also, people act for a reason, personality/problems/addictions/distractions/etc... You'll never be able to "fix" those.

    Quote Originally Posted by jmervyn View Post
    No, I got what you are saying and concur, but I think there's limits. At present I'm pretty sure that rental car companies use their vehicular "black box" as a punitive mechanism to enforce their policy - you can't lie about following the rules when the car itself shows that you drove it over the speed limit, outside the distance restriction, or whatever.
    Having never driven a rental car, I can't agree/disagree, but I do know that truckers have a disc of some sorts, so cops and the truckers' employers can see if all rules were obeyed.
    But those systems can be easily bypassed, my brother in law simply places a magnet on the box, appearantly it stops all input data of the engine/mileage/etc, as if the truck was parked somewhere.

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