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  1. #31
    IncGamers Member jmervyn's Avatar
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    Re: This is it, boys, this is WAR! I'm scared. Really.

    Quote Originally Posted by Dawnmaster View Post
    Just one word: WOW.

    I've never had anyone explain any War like this to me, I have a much better grasp at the situation now.
    Plus a lot of extra details I wasn't even aware off.
    Well, there's any number of modern revisionists who will call me a racist/fascist/whateverist for presenting the view, but this was "The Truth" of the time. Those times recognized the Communist menace as real and palpable, unlike our false hindsight when the USSR is viewed as nothing but a punchline and one of our better generals, Curtis LeMay, is remembered primarily for his caricature in Doctor Strangelove. In similar fashion, the American Democrat party was all for the Invasion of Iraq and eliminating Saddam's so-called "WMD", until they realized they'd do far better politically through treasonous propaganda AGAINST what they had voted for and pretending that Saddam never had "WMD".

    Quote Originally Posted by Dawnmaster View Post
    I'm very curious to see how this will escalate, or diminish into nothingness.
    I'm not outright afraid of the NorKs. I live on the East coast of the U.S., so even if their dream of an EMP attack was possible, they're more likely to strike that coast.

    I thought this was a remarkably good comment about it, from Mark Steyn:
    Quote Originally Posted by Steyn, on Hugh Hewitt show
    A few years ago, for example, there was a story in the Canadian papers that said that Kim Jong Il had a plan to nuke Montreal. And those of us who loved Quebec said well, why Montreal? And the reason was apparently that Kim Jong Il had calculated that if he nuked Chicago or Milwaukee, that the Americans might feel obliged to respond. But if he nuked a Canadian city, then the U.S. ambassador to the United Nations would just issue a strongly worded letter of regret. And those kind of, we laugh that those kinds of calculations, but they’re what are dancing through this guy’s head right now.
    Quote Originally Posted by Dawnmaster View Post
    Just to be sure, there have only been 2 nukes actually used in all wars combined? Both by America on Japan during WWII, right?
    So it would be a unicum if another country besides the US used real nukes in a war?
    Correct, hence the "Warmongerr!" view about the U.S. nuclear position. That's actually part of my belief in the potential danger of the North Korean / China calculus; the Chinese are at "war" with us but it doesn't involve weaponry, whereas the NorKs are nutty and insular enough to try to figure out how to attack us in a fashion which denies counterattack. We're already wetting our diapers about what he's doing, to the point that the Obama administration is already entering appeasement mode.

    Think about it - an EMP atmospheric blast wouldn't hurt a fly, except maybe a few repairmen who would be working on transformers & power lines across the affected area. Instead, the resulting starvation and rioting/anarchy would probably exceed that of a nuke (caution, nutbaggery at link). It would be far different from our normal concept of nuclear attack, and would mean a different warhead package than our assumptions dictate - meaning it might be currently possible for them.
    Last edited by jmervyn; 05-04-2013 at 15:38.

  2. #32
    IncGamers Member BobCox2's Avatar
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    Re: This is it, boys, this is WAR! I'm scared. Really.

    Quote Originally Posted by jmervyn View Post
    For clarification, when I mentioned the bimbo's belief that China should intervene and said, "Stop it? They WANT it.", I didn't mean a full-blown hot war. I meant that China wants NK to be on the precipice at all times, because it helps cover their own efforts. This is in reference to that book I mentioned earlier which, though perhaps not their official doctrine, certainly reveals how their military and political hierarchy views the situation. Unrestricted Warfare.
    That's two questions, though you wouldn't know it. The reason they CLAIM to be mad is that they are the victims of incessant American and South Korean aggression. This aggression takes the form of nearly continuous food aid and propping up of their own power structure, as well as a border reinforced with a single heavy American Army division to prevent them from invading the South as they have regularly done.

    The REAL reason they're mad is that they believed the same commie claptrap as was sold during the 1950's, and now they're stuck in it. Going beyond even "standard" socialism, they have a freakish pseudo-Stalinist doctrine called juche which claims complete Commie self-reliance. This even while their citizens eat dirt pies and grass, they steal and cannibalize the train cars which ship in the international food aid from China, they have almost no street or home lighting, and their leadership have access to outside information and realize that they're an international laughingstock. Makes for a pretty massive inferiority complex, far beyond that of Islamists.

    EDIT - oh, yeah, Fun Fact - 50 years of Socialism has resulted in the North Koreans being an average of 3" shorter than South Koreans. The South Koreans are accused of rubbing their noses in reality.

    They won't nuke their neighbors in a first strike. Their only true military capability is that of "scorched earth"; their armed forces' strength is in hundreds of thousands of WW2-era artillery aimed at the capitol of South Korea, which is within range. So they can obliterate the capitol of one of the civilized first-world nations, and a nuke would allow them the guise of being able to counter a counter-attack from other nations.

    In reality, their nukes aren't even at the "Fat Man" or "Little Boy" development stages; there's no way they can put them on the end of a Russian SS-5 ICBM (which is essentially what their 'Taepodong' is a crap copy of). However, they could load one in a lead-lined shipping container and strike anywhere in the world with a terror-type attack.

    IMO what they may have in long-range plans are getting their nukes small enough to get into orbit, and not worry about the difficult targeting and terminal phase. In their cooperation with Iran, I'm sure they've discussed the EMP potential of an orbital nuke - they pop off one of these on the American seaboard, or even better on each seaboard, and America is reduced to their technological level.
    The Korean War in a nutshell? ORIGINALLY the Commie-owned North invaded the South as is typical of Socialism - grounds being 'Yes we can!' rather than any legitimate cause. America fumbled initially in supporting the South, and the U.N. did their typical useless, pointless act, but eventually America was able to help South Korea beat back the invasion with the backstop of a couple of the nations propping up the U.N. effort (Aussies & Kiwis, as I recall).

    General MacArthur, an ardent anti-Commie and probably America's best general officer (and world-class belligerent arse, as far as I've ever really learned) was in command of the Japanese occupation. He obviously wanted to destroy the Commies and curb the COMINTERN aggression, so he counter-invaded, whereupon Mao sent in the Red Army. MacArthur wanted to nuke them and recognize that China had essentially gone to war against us. President Truman (Democrat) was afraid of (or according to some froth-mouth types even aligned with) Commies, very afraid of escalation, and was particularly angry that MacArthur was a (Republican) threat to his Presidency, so he fired MacArthur. The back & forth conflict, which killed hundreds of thousands on both sides and ruined many more lives, settled into the stalemate we have today: the Socialist half of the peninsula being hell on earth and the Capitalist half of the peninsula being one of the modern Western nations.
    Gasp! Other than calling MacArthur an Arse? (Generous and Exuberant - a Leader and Brilliant. IMHO though I never meet the Man.)
    and I did not click the links so text only.(this is known as the standard disclaimer for my replies to Jmervyn)

    ...

    I am in Complete agreement with JMervyn on all of the above.


    and at this point, if your not scared for those you love, or just pity the poor slaves in NK, or near NK your making a fool of yourself on the INTERNET.

    So in spite of the 1st post here, by going Off topic we are Spot-0N.
    Last edited by BobCox2; 06-04-2013 at 07:18.

  3. #33
    IncGamers Member jmervyn's Avatar
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    Re: This is it, boys, this is WAR! I'm scared. Really.

    Quote Originally Posted by BobCox2 View Post
    I am in Complete agreement with JMervyn on all of the above.
    Now I feel I should be even more scared than I already am.


    On-thread:
    Apparently, our cunning appeasement plan has been reconsidered on at least a couple of fronts, so instead we're discussing proportional response. Which would make sense, if we were serious about it.

    In return, it sounds like the NorKs may be trying a bit of unrestricted warfare of their own. For those who scoff at the concept of NorKs even having computers, bear in mind that not only are they considered a military asset in such regimes, but there have been plenty of rumors about the Chinese "off-shoring" some of their 'war' effort to the NorKs.

  4. #34
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    Re: This is it, boys, this is WAR! I'm scared. Really.

    Hehe I'm currently shopping for gifts for men to send over to KJU in order to calm him down. I'm thinking either a PC or laptop so he can do an AMA on Reddit.

  5. #35
    IncGamers Member BobCox2's Avatar
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    Re: This is it, boys, this is WAR! I'm scared. Really.


  6. #36
    IncGamers Member Vivi's Avatar
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    Re: This is it, boys, this is WAR! I'm scared. Really.


  7. #37
    IncGamers Member Glurin's Avatar
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    Re: This is it, boys, this is WAR! I'm scared. Really.

    Quote Originally Posted by Vivi View Post
    And as usual, the media is already trying to blame "right wing extremists" for it.

  8. #38
    IncGamers Member BobCox2's Avatar
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    Re: This is it, boys, this is WAR! I'm scared. Really.

    My sympathy's to those affected.

    Called my Buddys in Boston today.

    Cried a little.

    :(

  9. #39
    IncGamers Member SuggestiveName's Avatar
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    Re: This is it, boys, this is WAR! I'm scared. Really.

    Quote Originally Posted by Glurin View Post
    And as usual, the media is already trying to blame "right wing extremists" for it.
    Given the lack of information coming out of law enforcement at this point, and the fact that it is tax day, this is not that far fetched.

    But I'm betting on crazy white dude, trifecta rule in effect here.

  10. #40
    IncGamers Member BobCox2's Avatar
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    Re: This is it, boys, this is WAR! I'm scared. Really.

    Quote Originally Posted by Vivi View Post
    Two OT posts here,

    Meanwhile....
    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-22149863

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