This is it, boys, this is WAR! I'm scared. Really.

[jmervyn]

Ok, so I reversed my own recent decision and am on my first Canadian whiskey (it's Thursday) under the guidance of my physician, Kris. The title is from a line from a recent catchy and "militaristic" music video, spoilered.



Also, my standard disclaimer. The points of view I espouse on this forum and particularly in this thread in no way represent American policy, stances from the U.S. Department of Defense, positions of the European Council, fan dances of Mata Hari, or the squat that my dog Shredder takes.

TOPIC. There is an undeclared cold war by the Chinese against the West, and America in particular.

I had read some details about this initially on Wired's "Danger Room" linking the Chinese to the 2003 blackout, where I had thought it was simply a cover-up by Microsoft regarding the electrical grid's SCADA systems being partially compromised by the Blaster worm. I recall years ago arguing with someone on those Computerworld forums that NOBODY would be stupid enough to make SCADA systems directly accessible from the Internet, and even if they did, they would never be so stupid as to have those same systems running Microsoft products. Obviously I was quite wrong, and I overestimated American wisdom in a gigantic fashion.

I also was reading a nice bit of dross by Dick Morris (yes, the toe-sucker) called Screwed, where he spends at least one chapter discussing China's programs and, as it happens, refers to the same attacks against the American electrical grid as more than just conjecture. Richard Clarke is cited as a primary source, and while I have more than a few sneers to cast in Clarke's direction (he forecast an "electronic Pearl Harbor" and the result was 9/11, which he subsequently claimed to have forseen despite sharing potential culpability), I started to wonder if this wasn't just a matter of broken clocks being right twice a day.

The more I looked, the more I realized that we currently are experiencing something several magnitudes greater than the French electronic war of a couple of decades ago. China really IS attacking us outright, and not just to steal trade secrets or silence dissidents.

I'm going to have to resume this later; I just had a marathon phone-call and the fambly wants me to eat and do errands.

[BobCox2]

and I thought this would be about the underground bomb test in N. Korea



Sorry Jmervyn but this is not war.

[krischan]

I wouldn't call that a war, but scheming and sabotage, perhaps a bit of terrorism, together with criminal activity. In short, it's businessas usual, with its extent matching the opportunities given through the internet. It could be called war in a metaphorical way, however.

[jmervyn]

Bob, there's multiple ways to fight a war.

I'm very busy this morning. Read between the lines if you like.

[korialstraz]

I haven't checked the vid, link or anything, but I agree with jmerv on one point. Fighting a war with weapons, bombs and whatnot isn't the only way to wage war.

[LozHinge the Unhinged]

Indeed you can also wage war by searching air passengers and limiting what fluids they are allowed to take onto the plane.

[Stevinator]

Indeed you can also wage war by searching air passengers and limiting what fluids they are allowed to take onto the plane.

If you had used the phrase "groping grandmothers", I would have said you won the thread.



EDIT: Bonus, I just read Jmerv's link, and it said US and China are "frenemies". Should have put that darling on the first page, TIME magazine.

[jmervyn]

EDIT: Bonus, I just read Jmerv's link, and it said US and China are "frenemies". Should have put that darling on the first page, TIME magazine.

That's kind of the direction I'd like to go in with the thread, along with why that's actually a fairly scary prospect, PLUS what America's new-found isolationism might result in.

Like I said, I may not get to the brass tacks for a while yet.

[Jocular]

I'm interested to see how Chinese-American relations go forth with both of them having to deal with North Korea becoming ever more hostile. Neither country can invade North Korea without huge consequences...nor does anyone truly believe the North would ever fire a nuke. It's a mess.

[BobCox2]

Meh


Kind of like Taiwan, etc