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  1. #111
    IncGamers Member Glurin's Avatar
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    Re: Board of education claims intellectual ownership of pupils' school work... ehh wh

    Yes, wasn't there something in there about finding ten good people and the city would be spared? That would imply that it was more than "some insignificant slight by a handful of residents" that got the city squashed under God's boot.

  2. #112
    IncGamers Member LozHinge the Unhinged's Avatar
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    Re: Board of education claims intellectual ownership of pupils' school work... ehh wh

    Yep, 'cause in those days God was all about the better to smite nine innocents than let just one evil-doer go unpunished.

    He's mellowed since then, thankfully. I don't like decaffeinated coffee myself but some folks really benefit from it

  3. #113
    IncGamers Member jmervyn's Avatar
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    Re: Board of education claims intellectual ownership of pupils' school work... ehh wh

    Quote Originally Posted by LozHinge the Unhinged View Post
    He's mellowed since then, thankfully. I don't like decaffeinated coffee myself but some folks really benefit from it
    Helps to see things from your pet's point of view sometimes, don't you think? I've stopped rubbing the puppy's nose in his own feces, since it apparently helped him decide it was a tasty treat.

  4. #114
    IncGamers Member LozHinge the Unhinged's Avatar
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    Re: Board of education claims intellectual ownership of pupils' school work... ehh wh

    Quote Originally Posted by jmervyn View Post
    Helps to see things from your pet's point of view sometimes, don't you think? I've stopped rubbing the puppy's nose in his own feces, since it apparently helped him decide it was a tasty treat.
    You lead, puppy follow. Good work, Merv

  5. #115
    IncGamers Member Stevinator's Avatar
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    Re: Board of education claims intellectual ownership of pupils' school work... ehh wh

    Quote Originally Posted by jmervyn View Post
    You messed up on quote strings there, Steve.
    Plus, don't you mean "Capitalist" here?
    THe capitalist would have paid for the perfume.


    My bigotry exists largely in your head, not that it matters. The head of GOProud seems like a fantastic guy; I've seen him on RedEye a number of times. Plus I've worked in an AIDS clinic so I have no illusions about the lifestyle. They're no less pathetic than the types I've seen in NYC environs with gold "devil horn" necklaces dangling in their greying chest hair, sporting a rental blonde and driving a red convertible.[/QUOTE]

    Hairy man pics aside (we've reached quota on those BTW), if S&G didn't get asploded for having the ghey, can you at least let them have their SS benefits and the "M" word? Once they have that, I think a lot of this hoopla goes away. The country might support *** marriage, but even terrible "communist atheist socialist creeping papacy" types like me don't want to force churches to perform *** marriages if they don't want to. It's still 'merica.

    I might venture to say that anyone who defines their life's meaning by their genitalia deserves pity.
    Either they're shallow, and uninteresting, or you just have a shallow understanding of them. Or both.

    And the award for completely misinterpreting and misrepresenting the Bible in order to bolster the defense of his personal failings goes to... the envelope please? STEVINATOR! :clap: :clap: :clap:
    Well, I got that from your link. The article you posted posits that "sins" of the people was asking to interrogate visitors. That it was possible there was no bettsecks at all. In my view, that's a terrible god. I mean, was the entire town there harassing these folks? Where was this god's wrath during the many genocides following? So if the article you posted is accurate, and its all true, this god is the real one, we're basically screwed. This is not the actions of a just god. Heck, even if there was a buttsecks rape, you still don't nuke the whole town.


    Again your bounteous ignorance overflows the tiny vessel of your cranium. The Old Testament is shot through with allusions to the strife between hunters and gatherers, between nomads and urbanites, and between elite rule and free-thinking.
    Yes, and the quality of the advice varies greatly.


    Yes, wasn't there something in there about finding ten good people and the city would be spared? That would imply that it was more than "some insignificant slight by a handful of residents" that got the city squashed under God's boot.
    I thought we ALL had sin, and we've all sinned since. If you're a believer, that's an impossible standard to meet, because according to your own religion, only Jesus and Maybe Mary (depending on whom you ask) was without sin. That said, it's not like this was the ONE story that ruined it all for me. It's just another example of this particular view of god not acting in a moral way. If the stories are true, we live in a very sad universe. If they're not, then they're not; but either way, this is not a god we should be worshiping.

    I'll slip in that what is far more likely in my eyes is that the people who created those stories were trying to understand the complicated world around them and hadn't yet invented the tools they needed for discovery. Our understanding of what works and what doesn't, and how society should function are much improved. Agree or not, I doubt any of us would prefer to live then than now. I don't think that process has ended. We're now trying all sorts of new things, things that will undoubtably fail or fade out as other improvements come. You especially are very concerned about our money system. Well, really that's another big experiment that you have every right to be concerned about. Over time, people are able to increasingly specialize, and that allows us to push systems to their limits, and as we break the system, it has to adjust. We're seeing a small adjustment now. We're all feeling it in some measure. And no doubt, in the future (I don't know when, or how) there will be bigger worse ones. We may disagree on the particulars (I gather I might be a smidge more optimistic than you at least in the short term), but let's not delude ourselves into thinking they had everything figured out and that because it was some way before, that it must have been better.

    Heck, the fact they wrote the new testament at all shows they realized that there was a need for an update. And that's certainly not the only time religion had to change.

    Despite Jmerv's characterizations of me, I understand what the real value of those old beliefs. They were precursors to science. They were early theories that were being created and tossed out as our knowledge increased. I don't know that there is no god. I do know that it certainly seems pretty clear that the one i was taught about is not how it is in reality.

    i take that back, there may be one other reason for how these ideas can fit together. it's certainly possible that God is not infinite or not one. It could very well be that the creator and the god that is claimed are different. Perhaps some part or entity of god was young when we were, and thus, acted like a petulent child in the old testament, then matured later and realized tolerance was a better option than fiery retribution. Of course, that all sounds very anthropomorphic, but there are claims we were made in his image, so it's circularly plausible, but unknowable. i think i'll hold off on any worship, or deciding which interpretation makes the most sense until there's some reason to think this isn't all in our heads. Plus, if the math works out on that, the teenage years are coming in a few thousand years, so watch out!

    What we do know is that at least we're not getting smited for doing it wrong anymore. So there's that. Maybe we're on to something.

    Helps to see things from your pet's point of view sometimes, don't you think? I've stopped rubbing the puppy's nose in his own feces, since it apparently helped him decide it was a tasty treat.
    Other people's poo always stinks worse than our own, doesn't it?

  6. #116
    IncGamers Member jmervyn's Avatar
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    Re: Board of education claims intellectual ownership of pupils' school work... ehh wh

    Quote Originally Posted by Stevinator View Post
    THe capitalist would have paid for the perfume.
    Your threading fail is too much for me to handle despite the whiskey. I'll try reading it tomorrow.

  7. #117
    IncGamers Member Glurin's Avatar
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    Re: Board of education claims intellectual ownership of pupils' school work... ehh wh

    You know Steve, I've noticed that you seem to get rather, lets say hostile, whenever the topic even tangentially touches religion. I'm sensing there's more to it than that it didn't make sense to you or something. I'll not press the issue though, just making an observation.

    Quote Originally Posted by Stevinator
    Well, I got that from your link. The article you posted posits that "sins" of the people was asking to interrogate visitors. That it was possible there was no bettsecks at all. In my view, that's a terrible god. I mean, was the entire town there harassing these folks? Where was this god's wrath during the many genocides following? So if the article you posted is accurate, and its all true, this god is the real one, we're basically screwed. This is not the actions of a just god. Heck, even if there was a buttsecks rape, you still don't nuke the whole town.
    It's more likely that the "buttsecks rape" was simply the proverbial straw that broke the camels back. As I mentioned, all they had to do was find ten good people and there would be no head slap from God. I doubt that the entire city just all at once one day decided "Gee, those guys have got nice looking rumps. I'm gonna get me a piece of that whether they want it or not." and God didn't like it. There was probably a whole lot more going on.

  8. #118
    IncGamers Member BobCox2's Avatar
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    Re: Board of education claims intellectual ownership of pupils' school work... ehh wh

    STD's Were Are a Act Of God back then.

    Now people have condoms and medical insurance.



    (if that seems ranDoM read the Prior posts on Poo and beTTsecks and Babalon MoN!)

  9. #119
    IncGamers Member jmervyn's Avatar
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    Re: Board of education claims intellectual ownership of pupils' school work... ehh wh

    Quote Originally Posted by Stevinator View Post
    THe capitalist would have paid for the perfume.
    Why? I'll leave the obvious J00ish joke out of it. You still screwed up the quotations:
    Quote Originally Posted by Stevinator View Post
    Hairy man pics aside (we've reached quota on those BTW),
    Doubt that; check with Leo.
    Quote Originally Posted by Stevinator View Post
    if S&G didn't get asploded for having the ghey,
    I love the way you pretend that one of your primary claims was complete BS.
    Quote Originally Posted by Stevinator View Post
    can you at least let them have their SS benefits and the "M" word? Once they have that, I think a lot of this hoopla goes away. The country might support *** marriage, but even terrible "communist atheist socialist creeping papacy" types like me don't want to force churches to perform *** marriages if they don't want to. It's still 'merica.
    I've already covered this, so it seems silly to do so again. However, since you're a short bus perennial:
    1. I refuse to concur with "Marriage" redefinition, but queer couples ought to be able to call themselves a ham sandwich for all I have to say about it. Changing the language is to change the Overton Window, as well as deny reality sometimes ('servicing' targets in war).
    2. Rand Paul shared my approach recently, and for all your denial it seems the obvious off-ramp from my point of view. The Left will probably be the ones protesting this, in reality, because it will snip their OWN nuts off when it comes to both taxes and SS; allowing people to 'will' their SS is anathema to the Left as is means testing.
    3. Your claims about hospitals refusing to allow visitors is essentially a canard. Of course, that won't prevent you and the Left from framing the argument against Rand's position in the most grotesque terms possible.
    4. <YOU> may not be planning to start trying to shred Bibles and desecrate altars, and I am by no means convinced that you're truthful in this, but this entire issue is framed for precisely that purpose. The ACLU and other Leftist religion-haters can barely stand the wait, as I've demonstrated, and want to start filing lawsuits willy-nilly for discrimination on these newly conjured grounds.

    Quote Originally Posted by Stevinator View Post
    Either they're shallow, and uninteresting, or you just have a shallow understanding of them. Or both.
    That you challenge my opinion on this speaks volumes about yourself. So you define yourself primarily by what's between your legs, and think I may be wrong in sneering at such mentality? I remember one discussion where your motivation to 'get some' was touched on, and I thought to myself how hilarious it is that YOU accused ME of sexism and bigotry.
    Quote Originally Posted by Stevinator View Post
    In my view, that's a terrible god.
    Yeah, we've already covered this; you don't believe in shame, or morality, or pretty much anything that expects humans to behave better than animals. No need for rehash.
    *************************************************
    Quote Originally Posted by Glurin View Post
    I'm sensing there's more to it than that it didn't make sense to you or something.
    It's buried in some old threads; Steve felt "judged" when he was trying to score some Roman Catholic poon-tang, as I recall. See above "shallow" discussion.
    *************************************************
    Quote Originally Posted by Stevinator View Post
    I mean, was the entire town there harassing these folks? Where was this god's wrath during the many genocides following? So if the article you posted is accurate, and its all true, this god is the real one, we're basically screwed. This is not the actions of a just god. Heck, even if there was a buttsecks rape, you still don't nuke the whole town.
    Quote Originally Posted by Glurin View Post
    It's more likely that the "buttsecks rape" was simply the proverbial straw that broke the camels back. As I mentioned, all they had to do was find ten good people and there would be no head slap from God. I doubt that the entire city just all at once one day decided "Gee, those guys have got nice looking rumps. I'm gonna get me a piece of that whether they want it or not." and God didn't like it. There was probably a whole lot more going on.
    Glurin's recognition of the 'final straw' was already identified in at least one of the links, plus I'd already pointed it out. Sorry, that's not just reading comprehension failure, that's a devotion to hatred of God. Given your expressed desire to eliminate religion and the religious, plus your absolute disbelief in any "higher power", I'm surprised you suddenly express dismay and horror at the thought of wiping out a large city of r@pists, thieves, and worse, amongst whom not even ten nice guys can be found.
    Spoiler

    Quote Originally Posted by Stevinator View Post
    Yes, and the quality of the advice varies greatly.
    WTF does that have to do with your failure of literary comprehension? It's not like I'm even discussing the merits of the historical aspects with you; I'm was stating that purely as a work of historical literature it is rife with allusions to conflict between civilization and agrarian culture, with civilization largely representing the baddies. It's where the whole malevolent aspect of "Empire" came from.
    Quote Originally Posted by Stevinator View Post
    If you're a believer, that's an impossible standard to meet, because according to your own religion, only Jesus and Maybe Mary (depending on whom you ask) was without sin.
    Ignorance abounds. Old Testament was founded on the Mosaic Law, not on Grace, therefore the requirement for J00z was to attempt to follow the Law. These cities were not only anti-Law, but like you, thought it was disgusting and would happily wipe it out.
    Quote Originally Posted by Stevinator View Post
    That said, it's not like this was the ONE story that ruined it all for me. It's just another example of this particular view of god not acting in a moral way. If the stories are true, we live in a very sad universe. If they're not, then they're not; but either way, this is not a god we should be worshiping.
    That said, it's not like you know feck-all about it in the first place; you're taking an extremely shallow and uninteresting look at something, recognizing that you don't like feeling guilty for a lot of stuff you've done, and are passing judgement on the entirety to make yourself feel better about yourself. No different from most of the Left:
    Actually, there's a pretty handy list:
    1. Liberals are relativists and hate Christians because Christians believe in absolute truth.
    2. Liberals do not want anyone to say that immorality is immoral.
    3. Liberals are selfish and are more interested in their "feelings" then they are with what is right for others.
    4. Liberals misunderstand what Christians really believe.
    5. Since liberals see themselves as the superior enlighten ones they do not recognize that taking a position against their position is not automatically hate.
    6. Liberals do not want to listen to what makes sense, they would rather listen to their senses.
    7. Liberals ignore the clear evidence of the result of their philosophical positions influence on the last 40 years. It had been a social disaster and they do not want to hear it.
    8. They see Christians as intellectually inferior.
    9. Liberals see Christians as wanting to impose their religion on them when in truth it is the liberals who have used the courts system to impose their secular humanism religion on all of us.
    10. Liberals are spiritually lost and blind to the truth of the gospel.


    Quote Originally Posted by Stevinator View Post
    I'll slip in that what is far more likely in my eyes is that the people who created those stories were trying to understand the complicated world around them and hadn't yet invented the tools they needed for discovery.
    See #8 above. J/K, actually, but despite your surprising understanding of the difficulty in applying ancient theological belief to a modern context, you subsequently fall for the Satanic trap that involves a kind of "fallacy of novelty". Just because Christian morality is old does NOT mean it's wrong, any more than the fallacy of believing it's right because it's old would be. Smarter minds than yours, and mine, recognized long ago that the Bible is a remarkably legitimate codification of the human condition, and that Enlightenment Christianity is a remarkably sound and functional worldview.
    Quote Originally Posted by Stevinator View Post
    We may disagree on the particulars (I gather I might be a smidge more optimistic than you at least in the short term), but let's not delude ourselves into thinking they had everything figured out and that because it was some way before, that it must have been better.
    This is the fallacy of novelty in disguise. Do you REALLY believe that things have been oh-so-much better, from a purely social context, over the past 40 years that your theology has been the dominant one in the U.S.?
    Quote Originally Posted by Stevinator View Post
    Despite Jmerv's characterizations of me, I understand what the real value of those old beliefs.
    Bull. There's no need to try to hide behind P.C. blather.
    Quote Originally Posted by Stevinator View Post
    They were precursors to science. They were early theories that were being created and tossed out as our knowledge increased.
    I was going to use a great phrase referring to that sick Socialist Jesus claim, but I'll use it here: You believe that we can immenentize the eschaton. I don't, and I know that your belief causes evil and suffering.
    Quote Originally Posted by Stevinator View Post
    I don't know that there is no god.
    You just hate anyone who believes there is, and probably would like to kill someone who reminds you that He died for you to have a chance better than the Sodomites.
    Quote Originally Posted by Stevinator View Post
    Perhaps some part or entity of god was young when we were, and thus, acted like a petulent child in the old testament, then matured later and realized tolerance was a better option than fiery retribution. Of course, that all sounds very anthropomorphic,
    The answer to this is that the J00ish culture matured as ancient peoples realized that God's wrath didn't need frills.
    Quote Originally Posted by BobCox2 View Post
    STD's Were Are a Act Of God back then.

    Now people have condoms and medical insurance.
    I think the strictures against casual sex were pretty clear, but not everyone can be moral.
    Quote Originally Posted by Stevinator View Post
    What we do know is that at least we're not getting smited for doing it wrong anymore. So there's that. Maybe we're on to something.
    You don't think so? What would you call WW1, WW2, and World Communism? That's a hell of a lot of death & suffering that you're suddenly NOT? laying at God's doorstep.
    Last edited by jmervyn; 31-03-2013 at 22:11.

  10. #120
    IncGamers Member Phesto's Avatar
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    Re: Board of education claims intellectual ownership of pupils' school work... ehh wh

    Christianity, its Daddy and its inbred sibling, along with all resultant ideologies (communism, marxism, feminism [and now the MRM which is almost perfectly analogous], liberalism, anarchism, etc. etc. - they're all Leftist) are fundamentally the same thing. They all reduce down to the same single point: Nihilism. They are all nature-hating, life-denouncing and egalitarian ("all equal under God" - biological nihilism)... slavish. They all seek to disengage / escape reality ("return to the void / Oblivion") through various means (alcohol, sports entertainment, weed, video games), because these people deep down are self-loathing / effete and afraid. Christianity promises future paradise in form of Heaven, where leftist ideologies implicitly or explicitly promise future paradise in the form of Utopia... this is simply Heaven brought down to Earth... a place with no pain, struggle, disease - in other words a childish fantasy. For the Leftist God is brought down to Earth and morphed to "The Government" or "State": the invisible hand. Religion enabled paternalism, which artificially reduced the "market value" of women, which allowed beta males to reproduce en mass (this was social engineering program to generate fodder for the planned world wars), which led to multiple generations of effete males and demented females being born... since then ("The 50's") we see vast increase in Nihilistic mentality - Why? Because these people feel nature bearing down on them beyond their sheltered existences, and are biologically damned, that is, damned by Nature Herself... and so, they all seek to disengage, and part of this involves dreaming of Heaven or future Utopia (e.g. anarchism).

    Anarchism is just adolescent fantasy... it's classic / base male-behavior to want to challenge the perceived Alpha Male (the govt.), defeat him and replace that male and that male's system with his own. The notion of a systemless system is asinine on its face and the fact that the anarchist is incapable of envisioning this in his mind (that a living system without form will inevitably develop one... and along NATURE's lines) is proof positive of his stunted mentality / deep stupidity and the fact that his world begins and ends at the level of language... again, anti-nature / anti-reality (because it's anti-hierarchy, and where hierarchy is inevitable and necessary for efficient function of society); put any group of people together on an island and a hierarchy will almost immediately develop, every time, without fail... this is EMERGENT, meaning a consequence of genetics and resultant biology and the advantages / disadvantages determined by it, something that's Real and perpetual. And again, unsurprisingly we see that the anarchist is egalitarian. The typical picture anarchists paint is on par with matriarchy... if you want examples of matriarchies, see 3rd World Africa and predominantly black communities here in the Western world. Indeed, we see a lot of push within the "anarchist" movement for alternative parenting that typically involves the children at home under highly permissive situations (re: Africa et al)... this produces effete offspring who are forever emotionally / psychologically dependent on their mothers and "the feminine", and is especially damaging to males, who are in much more need for strong character, intelligence and real skillset to get by / have value in the world... but this is the world anarchists are shaping: neo-tribalism.

    Really, you're all operating on the same base ideas, which as mentioned prior all reduce back down to nihilism. It's either derived from / in agreement with nature / the obvious / reality, or it's some form of sugar-coated / camouflaged nihilism... childish wonderworld that'll never come to fruition.

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