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  1. #101
    IncGamers Member jmervyn's Avatar
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    Re: Board of education claims intellectual ownership of pupils' school work... ehh wh

    Quote Originally Posted by BobCox2 View Post
    Can you identify the Fallacy here?
    All yours, Bob, all yours.

    He's pointing out that the claims used by Leftists, some of whom claim Christianity, are false because they fundamentally misinterpret the couple of parables in which Jesus discusses such structures, simply because Marx famously used one of them later. The Lord wants us to care for others OURSELVES, not give 'Caesar' more power in hopes that he might do it in our name. Much more a Libertarian, self-starting type of belief, in actuality.

    Note that Progressive Leftists don't have a stranglehold on this Satanic stupidity.

  2. #102
    IncGamers Member Stevinator's Avatar
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    Re: Board of education claims intellectual ownership of pupils' school work... ehh wh

    The point of that bible quote is that you shouldn't worry about making money or paying taxes, you should worry about helping your fellow man. Not exactly socialism, but certainly not capitalism. I really don't like labels, but i'd call that communitarianism, if i had to put a pin in it.

    Of course, that's me being very nice, since that assumes that everyone agrees with his teaching. If I say didn't think what he thought was right or just wasn't, then it quickly becomes authoritarianism, because they'd have to MAKE people do what they saw as just or moral. If I disagreed that giving all my stuff away was moral and just, the only two options are to turn the other cheek, which would render Jesus's followers as ineffective, and eventually they'd just be pushed aside, or they can force me to do what they say is just and moral, and they become the theocracies we've seen through history. If you want to know what that ends with, just check out saudia arabia.

  3. #103
    IncGamers Member BobCox2's Avatar
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    Re: Board of education claims intellectual ownership of pupils' school work... ehh wh

    Quote Originally Posted by jmervyn View Post
    All yours, Bob, all yours.

    He's pointing out that the claims used by Leftists, some of whom claim Christianity, are false because they fundamentally misinterpret the couple of parables in which Jesus discusses such structures, simply because Marx famously used one of them later. The Lord wants us to care for others OURSELVES, not give 'Caesar' more power in hopes that he might do it in our name. Much more a Libertarian, self-starting type of belief, in actuality.
    ROTFL!

    It all goes back to Jesus... he's got to be up in heaven freaking out at all the interpretations of the things they SAY he said. He didn't even KNOW he was the son of God. As soon as he was born, as soon as he could speak the language, his mother said, 'You're the son of God. When you were born the angels came, and the stars stood in one place, the wise men brought gifts, and the whole world's been waiting for you to come and do great things.' [As baby Jesus] 'Really? Me? Are you sure?' [Back to normal voice] Everybody but Joseph. Joseph's walking around going, [very suspicious] 'Yeah, you had better be the son of God, I'll tell you that. You had BETTER be him, little mister. And you better be the ONLY son of God.'"
    Sam Kinison-- Early routine from the Comedy Annex in Houston, 1979.

    Quote Originally Posted by krischan View Post
    But Karl Marx didn't invent socialism. He invented communism.

    1 point.
    Last edited by BobCox2; 24-03-2013 at 04:38.

  4. #104
    IncGamers Member jmervyn's Avatar
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    Re: Board of education claims intellectual ownership of pupils' school work... ehh wh

    Quote Originally Posted by Stevinator View Post
    I really don't like labels, but i'd call that communitarianism, if i had to put a pin in it.
    Point being, Jesus did not in any way endorse "big gov't"; it might have even been Sam Kinison who made the crack about the last thing Jesus wanting to see when he comes back being the Cross which the Roman gov't crucified Him upon. Jesus is about the individual - it's an individual choice to come to Him, it's an individual choice to give of one's self, and it's an individual choice to love others. OTOH the Left, like Islam, believes that charity should be compulsory, and that compelling others' "charity" is a benevolent concept when it is really ripe for corruption and exploitation.
    Quote Originally Posted by Stevinator View Post
    If you want to know what that ends with, just check out saudia arabia.
    I don't pretend to know the mind of God, but I wouldn't be at all surprised if Jesus didn't think that out long before the Roman Curia or the rest of the panoply of bureaucratic, corrupt religious and social structures. It wasn't like the Essenes were the dominant theology of His society; it was the Pharisee/Sadducee bureaucracy. Again, the people who helped kill Him.

    Quote Originally Posted by BobCox2 View Post
    ROTFL!
    You knew Kinison was an evangelical preacher, right Bob?


  5. #105
    Europe Trade Moderator krischan's Avatar
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    Re: Board of education claims intellectual ownership of pupils' school work... ehh wh

    Quote Originally Posted by BobCox2 View Post

    1 point.
    I would rather call it a classical knockout
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  6. #106
    IncGamers Member jmervyn's Avatar
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    Re: Board of education claims intellectual ownership of pupils' school work... ehh wh

    Quote Originally Posted by krischan View Post
    I would rather call it a classical knockout
    Of Bob? He's the one who made the claim of "invent"...

    Wasn't really that good anyways, sorry - Marx definitely shaped Socialist belief, insofar as he considered it one of the intermediate stages and considered himself to be discussing it. The fact that he's not the originator isn't really relevant to <my> link since the author specifically alluded to the Utopians (I even quoted it here).

  7. #107
    IncGamers Member Stevinator's Avatar
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    Re: Board of education claims intellectual ownership of pupils' school work... ehh wh

    Quote Originally Posted by jmervyn View Post
    Point being, Jesus did not in any way endorse "big gov't"; it might have even been Sam Kinison who made the crack about the last thing Jesus wanting to see when he comes back being the Cross which the Roman gov't crucified Him upon. Jesus is about the individual - it's an individual choice to come to Him, it's an individual choice to give of one's self, and it's an individual choice to love others. OTOH the Left, like Islam, believes that charity should be compulsory, and that compelling others' "charity" is a benevolent concept when it is really ripe for corruption and exploitation.
    No but he also never denounced it, but he did speak against accumulation of wealth, which sorta flies in the face of capitalism.

    I don't pretend to know the mind of God, but I wouldn't be at all surprised if Jesus didn't think that out long before the Roman Curia or the rest of the panoply of bureaucratic, corrupt religious and social structures. It wasn't like the Essenes were the dominant theology of His society; it was the Pharisee/Sadducee bureaucracy. Again, the people who helped kill Him.
    I think traditionally (though you are free to start your own sect, seems like that's the thing to do these days), god is much more concerned about sin than how much bureaucracy there is. He didn't nuke gomorrah for too many middle managers. So while no one can know god's mind, it's clear what should be in ours.

    sex>politics


  8. #108
    IncGamers Member jmervyn's Avatar
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    Re: Board of education claims intellectual ownership of pupils' school work... ehh wh

    Quote Originally Posted by Stevinator View Post
    No but he also never denounced it, but he did speak against accumulation of wealth, which sorta flies in the face of capitalism.
    Accumulation of wealth isn't the same as Capitalism, and if you've forgotten, the environment of the time would have been more or less that of the sūq, with tax collectors AKA certified thieves representing the official gov't interest. The State <WAS> the wealth center, while the mercantile class wasn't.

    Another fine quote, "The poor you will always have with you, and you can help them any time you want". Not exactly synonymous with Socialism, which purports to eliminate poverty (by making it the norm).
    Quote Originally Posted by Stevinator View Post
    god is much more concerned about sin than how much bureaucracy there is. He didn't nuke gomorrah for too many middle managers.
    Well, if you look at the "why", your claim is a lot less clear-cut than you believe it to be. You're heathen, so I'm not surprised (P.S. I'm cheating; I remembered this issue from one of my High School Bib Lit courses).

    Quote Originally Posted by Stand to Reason
    In their defense, some will cite Ezekiel 16:49-50: "Behold, this was the guilt of your sister Sodom: she and her daughters had arrogance, abundant food, and careless ease, but she did not help the poor and needy. Thus they were haughty and committed abominations before Me.[8] Therefore I removed them when I saw it." No mention of homosexuality here.
    Obviously, this would seem to support the Socialist claim even more deeply, but if you read the article (and other Bib Lit), there's a lot to be said for the concept that S&G were 'modern', secular nation-states, and that immorality was simply one of their more noteworthy failings.

  9. #109
    IncGamers Member Stevinator's Avatar
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    Re: Board of education claims intellectual ownership of pupils' school work... ehh wh

    [QUOTE=jmervyn;8503572]Accumulation of wealth isn't the same as Capitalism, and if you've forgotten, the environment of the time would have been more or less that of the sūq, with tax collectors AKA certified thieves representing the official gov't interest. The State <WAS> the wealth center, while the mercantile class wasn't.

    Another fine quote, "The poor you will always have with you, and you can help them any time you want". Not exactly synonymous with Socialism, which purports to eliminate poverty (by making it the norm).
    Actually, he sounds a lot like your socialist there. F*** the poor, give me that perfume. I want to smell nice when I die.

    Well, if you look at the "why", your claim is a lot less clear-cut than you believe it to be. You're heathen, so I'm not surprised (P.S. I'm cheating; I remembered this issue from one of my High School Bib Lit courses).
    Something tells me you still aren't going to ease up on the gays anyway, but at least it's safe from meteors to visit San Francisco.


    Obviously, this would seem to support the Socialist claim even more deeply, but if you read the article (and other Bib Lit), there's a lot to be said for the concept that S&G were 'modern', secular nation-states, and that immorality was simply one of their more noteworthy failings.
    It doesn't really matter. The point is that god decided to kill an entire city because of some insignificant slight by a handful of residents. If it turns out they were right all along, we're screwed, because god is terrible.

    Also, it's unlikely that that particular part was written with modern states in mind. The bible was written by men after all.

  10. #110
    IncGamers Member jmervyn's Avatar
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    Re: Board of education claims intellectual ownership of pupils' school work... ehh wh

    You messed up on quote strings there, Steve.
    Quote Originally Posted by Stevinator View Post
    Actually, he sounds a lot like your socialist there. F*** the poor, give me that perfume. I want to smell nice when I die.
    Plus, don't you mean "Capitalist" here?
    Quote Originally Posted by Stevinator View Post
    Something tells me you still aren't going to ease up on the gays anyway, but at least it's safe from meteors to visit San Francisco.
    My bigotry exists largely in your head, not that it matters. The head of GOProud seems like a fantastic guy; I've seen him on RedEye a number of times. Plus I've worked in an AIDS clinic so I have no illusions about the lifestyle. They're no less pathetic than the types I've seen in NYC environs with gold "devil horn" necklaces dangling in their greying chest hair, sporting a rental blonde and driving a red convertible.

    They think they're this:
    Spoiler


    but they're really this:
    Spoiler

    I might venture to say that anyone who defines their life's meaning by their genitalia deserves pity.
    Quote Originally Posted by Stevinator View Post
    It doesn't really matter. The point is that god decided to kill an entire city because of some insignificant slight by a handful of residents. If it turns out they were right all along, we're screwed, because god is terrible.
    And the award for completely misinterpreting and misrepresenting the Bible in order to bolster the defense of his personal failings goes to... the envelope please? STEVINATOR! :clap: :clap: :clap:
    Quote Originally Posted by Stevinator View Post
    Also, it's unlikely that that particular part was written with modern states in mind. The bible was written by men after all.
    Again your bounteous ignorance overflows the tiny vessel of your cranium. The Old Testament is shot through with allusions to the strife between hunters and gatherers, between nomads and urbanites, and between elite rule and free-thinking.

    Take a Bib Lit course before you make an even greater fool of yourself, for Feck's sake.

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