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  1. #11
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    Re: Damage to mana HELP :D

    Here is a start.

    http://wiki.theamazonbasin.com/index.php/Energy_Shield

    Notice the TK/ES Chart? Well I am looking for one that shows damage reduction ratios with DTM gear with ratings.

  2. #12
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    Re: Damage to mana HELP :D

    The Amazon Basin Diablo II wiki's Damage Taken Goes to Mana page should contain a complete list of items with that modifier, as well as applicable sources of damage.

    The table on its Energy Shield page contains DTGM percentages required to counter mana loss for varying levels of ES and Telekinesis (assuming no further integer or percentage damage reduction): for example, with level 20 ES and Telekinesis 225% DTGM would counter mana loss from applicable sources of damage (although this percentage would be halved with Resist -100%, and quadrupled with Resist 75%).

    However, you've seen that page and apparently it isn't what you're looking for. Since it's impossible for DTGM to counter mana loss with high level ES and Telekinesis, by 'ratio to performance', 'damage to mana efficiency', 'optimal damage mitigation' and 'optimal zenith', are you looking for the percentages which at least result in mana running out at the same time as your life?

    I remember seeing something like that at some point, but I don't think it took into account the fact that mana regenerates... or that there are many sources of monster and player damage to which DTGM does not apply.

  3. #13
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    Re: Damage to mana HELP :D

    The "optimal" levels you are probably talking about, is %DTGM to compensate mana loss due to ES.

    With 20 hard points in telekinesis, ES eats .075mana per every damage point absorbed. The amount of damage is capped at 95% at slvl 40 probably.

    So 1000 initial damage (no res, no %dr, no absorb) would be 950*.75=712.5 into mana and 50 into health. Thus with 100% DTM you'll lose 50hp and recover 50 mana.

    The less %ES you have, the more hp you lose and more mana you recover. There're no breakpoints. At some point you will be able to recover all lost mana at the cost of some lost hp.

    http://46.39.240.184/upfiles/DTGM+ES.xls here I put some excel formulas

  4. #14
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    Re: Damage to mana HELP :D

    Perfect example with 200fcr sorc:

    Damage Taken Goes To Mana: 98%
    50% nightsmoke belt
    12% amulet 20fcr
    12% jewel in griffon
    12% jewel in viper
    12% jewel in 50fcr weapon (wizzy?)

    Needs 56,65% ES (slvl 9) to be completely mana-safe vs physical attack. You still lose 43% hp, so the whole setup works as 57% dr, while sacrifising a lot of gear.

  5. #15
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    Re: Damage to mana HELP :D

    Quote Originally Posted by Black Lotus View Post
    Needs 56,65% ES (slvl 9) to be completely mana-safe vs physical attack.
    It's a common misconception that Damage Taken Goes to Mana only applies to physical damage, or physical attack damage. It's not the damage type but the source of the damage that's important: it does not apply to physical damage from War Cry or Tornado (skill damage), nor does it apply to the physical damage of Diablo's lightning and firestorm (missile damage); however, it does apply to the lightning bolts of Willowisps and the fire bolts of Demon Imps (monster damage) despite the fact these don't apply any physical damage, and non-physical damage of any type applied by a player's attack (attack damage), even if the attack applies no physical damage (like Berserk or Lightning Bolt).

  6. #16
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    Re: Damage to mana HELP :D

    Quote Originally Posted by onderduiker View Post
    It's a common misconception that Damage Taken Goes to Mana only applies to physical damage, or physical attack damage. It's not the damage type but the source of the damage that's important: it does not apply to physical damage from War Cry or Tornado (skill damage), nor does it apply to the physical damage of Diablo's lightning and firestorm (missile damage); however, it does apply to the lightning bolts of Willowisps and the fire bolts of Demon Imps (monster damage) despite the fact these don't apply any physical damage, and non-physical damage of any type applied by a player's attack (attack damage), even if the attack applies no physical damage (like Berserk or Lightning Bolt).

    Exactly. There are so many wives tales about DTM.

  7. #17
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    Re: Damage to mana HELP :D

    Quote Originally Posted by Black Lotus View Post
    The "optimal" levels you are probably talking about, is %DTGM to compensate mana loss due to ES.

    With 20 hard points in telekinesis, ES eats .075mana per every damage point absorbed. The amount of damage is capped at 95% at slvl 40 probably.

    So 1000 initial damage (no res, no %dr, no absorb) would be 950*.75=712.5 into mana and 50 into health. Thus with 100% DTM you'll lose 50hp and recover 50 mana.

    The less %ES you have, the more hp you lose and more mana you recover. There're no breakpoints. At some point you will be able to recover all lost mana at the cost of some lost hp.

    http://46.39.240.184/upfiles/DTGM+ES.xls here I put some excel formulas
    Appreciate it, but its not how its ultimately calced.

  8. #18
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    Re: Damage to mana HELP :D

    I still haven't seen these breakpoints. You didn't mention ES and TK in your original post, so you can't expect people to 'just know' that they are part of your thoughts.

  9. #19
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    Re: Damage to mana HELP :D

    Quote Originally Posted by TheXelnaga View Post
    I think the max was 186% but thats only quoting off of memory.
    186 is the percentage Damage Taken Goes to Mana required to offset mana loss from level 13 Energy Shield (65%) with level 16 Telekinesis (1:1); less likely, it's the percentage required to do likewise for level 11 ES (61%) with level 13 Telekinesis (1:1.1875).

    Quote Originally Posted by TheXelnaga View Post
    It means damage to mana efficiency based on 3 factors, amount of damage to mana, maxed telekinesis, and Energy Shield.
    Is what you're looking for based on the following?

    Quote Originally Posted by SSoG View Post
    When a player is damaged by ES, the resultant damage to mana is given by the following formula:

    Damage to Mana = total damage * ES% * TKMod
    TKMod = 2 - (6.25 * TK)

    Where ES% is the percentage of damage absorbed by ES, and TK is the number of hard points invested into Telekinesis. With a slvl 20 Telekinesis (which will be assumed for all future calculations), TKMod = .75.

    Anyway, the Mana *BOOST* that results from the DGtM mod is given by the following formula:

    Boost to Mana = total damage * (1-ES%) * DGtM%

    Where ES% is again the percentage of damage absorbed by ES, and DGtM% is the percentage of Damage Goes to Mana from your gear.

    Now, the goal of this excercise is to find a value of DGtM% that will entirely offset the mana reduction from a certain level of ES. As a result, let's set Boost to Mana and Damage to Mana equal to each other and solve for ES%.

    Total Damage * ES% * TKMod = Total Damage * (1-ES%) * DGtM%
    ES% * TKMod = DGtM% - (ES% * DGtM%) _______ (dividing both sides by Total Damage)
    ES% * TKMod + (ES% * DGtM%) = DGtM% _______ subtracting (ES% * DGtM%) from both sides
    ES% (TKMod + DGtM%) = DGtM% _______ factor out the ES%
    ES% = DGtM% / (DGtM% + TKMod) _______ divide both sides by (DGtM% + TKMod)

    Conclusions:
    Assuming a TKMod of .75 (20 hard points in Telekinesis), we get the following data points where DGtM perfectly offsets Energy Shield.

    50% ES (slvl 7) is offset by 75% DGtM%.
    75% ES (slvl 20) is offset by 225% DGtM%.
    80% ES (slvl 25) is offset by 300% DGtM%.
    82% ES (slvl 27) is offset by 342% DGtM% (this is the maximum achievable offset).

    Playtesting confirms that with the proper amount of DGtM, a sorceress's mana ball won't budge, and as long as she has enough mana to absorb the initial hit, her ES will remain active.
    If DTGM, Telekinesis and Energy Shield levels are the only factors, I don't know what else it can be.

  10. #20
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    Re: Damage to mana HELP :D

    Is what you're looking for based on the following?
    If you check my excel file, there are exactly the same formulas applied. Still they appear to be "not how its ultimately calced".

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