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  1. #31
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    Re: The Great Disconnect Between the Diablo Universe and Diablo 3 the game.

    Some of you underestimate how many idiots are there, with 60 bucks to spare.

    The fact is, D3 has been build for the lowest common denominator, to maximize INITIAL sales, which succeeded handsomely. D3 is NOT a game built with an intention to create a community which will last for 10 years.

    D3 is just a money grab, designed by managers and accountants, to maximize profits.

    There are countless millions of idiots around the world, who have no taste, no patience, low IQ and 60 bucks for a game. For those pathetic masses, Diablo 3 has been engineered.

    Blizzard COMPLETELY didn't care about longtime Diablo fans. They new that they will buy even a Diablo themed Tick-Tack-Toe, so making a game for them was not an issue.

    The sad fact is, if you are a 10yo boy, who wants to be "cool", by playing a scary game, D3 is nearly perfect.

  2. #32
    IncGamers Member Speedster's Avatar
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    Re: The Great Disconnect Between the Diablo Universe and Diablo 3 the game.

    The Great Disconnect between People Who Actually Play the Game and Those Who Hang Out Here and Criticize Stuff Most Players Don't Give a #$%^ About

    I want my 10 minutes back for reading this thread. Holy crap... I played D2 for years, made top 10 on sorc ladder once, and I still couldn't tell you what the hell the story was...

    Although the wizard video in the first post is very cool -- electrocute looks fun and I haven't tried it yet.

  3. #33
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    Re: The Great Disconnect Between the Diablo Universe and Diablo 3 the game.

    Honestly the issue with the story isn't really that its gotten worse. I guess its actually around the same quality, its a bit hard to tell as the story in DI and DII were a bit..forgetable. DI especially so I spose. I only barely remember some of the crap with why we were going down...(all I remember is tristram cathedral had monsters..random people walk up...start fighting down...skeleton king was to be killed...apparently had killed others there..further down the room types changed..you went into a hell like place..lazurus was corrupting a kid...making him into diablo basically..then we kill diablo). diablo II..we followed the dark wanderer...made pitstops along the way as he released the prime evils, killed stuff he left in our way....mephisto managed to corrupt stuff from within stone..then we went to hell to kill Diablo/wanderer. Then we went to the worldstone to stop it from being corrupted..it happened anyway..so it got shattered and that is what lets demons/angels enter the world much more easily now.

    Diablo III? Yeah I notice the story, I notice the story a lot. Every single time I'm playing through..it stops the action, forces me to watch a cutscene..in the middle of an act. I skip it naturally, then another..then another. Then I very often get little mini-cutscenes that don't stop the flow of action (yay) but does force me to hit space to skip it..and it usually happens while I'm out fighting, instead of being an npc I talk to in town. Many areas of the game are gated until I talk to the right npc to keep going, requireing me to notice even more of the story.

    Basically what I'm tryin to get at, is while all 3 games had rather bad stories. diablo III is rather 'proud' of its bad story, and gets up in your face about it. Yes some of the issues, gated areas until you talk to an npc, etc. Existed in previous games...but it dosn't seem as prevalient...nor does it seem to stop the action as much. I think in part because even the smallest click would send you away from talking with an NPC..no need to push a special button, and because you didn't have cutscenes...just plain text.

    Basically Diablo III's bad story is more noticable because it does everything it can, short of making cut scenes unskipable, to make you read/hear the story. And in order to do that the flow of the gameplay itself is often broken up in an annoying manner, that just exasperates the problem. Heck I've only made 2 heroes into lvl 60 in the time I've played DIII...and I got two others into nightmare mode. I'm already sick and tired of the storyline..and just wanting the crap to shut up.

    Meanwhile with DII..I can still happily step in, make a character, and play through the game without the story getting on my nerves. And I've played through normal mode hundreds of times, due to the fact I used to play Hardcore mode...and oh how I'd die. And yet I'd still have fun :P.

    Heck, with DII I used to purposefully stop in town a bit, read all of the npc stuff..and I think I've seen every single thing an npc would say in DII, and I like to hear some of it multiple times. DIII...I..yeah I'm kinda ignoring npcs and everything I possibly can..just...shut up already.

  4. #34
    IncGamers Member RazeBarb's Avatar
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    Re: The Great Disconnect Between the Diablo Universe and Diablo 3 the game.

    I think american companies just **** their pants a bit more every year because the americans like to throw with lawsuits and bad media (Fox).

    America is becoming the land of cartoon games while a bunch of eastern european potato devs satisfy gamers with graphics, sex and violence.
    Yes, those are important parts of games and I think we all agree that it's better to have virtual instead of physical violence.

    That butchered supermodel torso from the Dead Island 2 CE? Yes, please. Feminists can suck my dick.

  5. #35
    IncGamers Member MathewPoland's Avatar
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    Re: The Great Disconnect Between the Diablo Universe and Diablo 3 the game.

    The biggest issue for me is that basically everything is so... obvious.

    Like Leah=Diablo, The Fallen Star = Tyrael or finally Caldeum Emperor = Belial. Come on, I can't believe that anyone who watched the trailers and followed the interviews/blue posts didn't expect those to be true.

    The story would have been so much better if the writers took some time to read through the forums to find out what people expect to happen and change the story to be more suprising. Like:

    a) We all knew the Fallen Star was Tyrael, but the game made a big secret out of it - you had to find the sword pieces to find out what you already knew. Wouldn't it be more fun if Tyrael remembered his identity from the start, but suffered a partial amnesia and didn't remember what warning he came to deliver? Wouldn't it be more interesting if he was thrown out of Heaven by Imperius for standing up for humanity?

    b) Cain's death - I'd have actually enjoyed this part of the plot (searching for the sword pieces only to be screwed over by the evil witch in the end), if only Maghda was different - more serious, mysterious and... evil. To me, she seemed more like a crazy woman than an evil, powerful witch. I'd have been fine with her killing Cain if she wasn't the butterfly queen, but instead she looked more like this:

    http://fc04.deviantart.net/fs71/i/20...re-d3ipa85.jpg

    Act II story would be perfect if Maghda was different and more scary... and if it wouldn't be so obvious that the Emperor was in fact Belial. It would have been so much better if Hakan II was merely a puppet in Belial's hands, designed to trick the Nephalem into believing that he's the real threat allowing the real Belial (hiding as someone who you really wouldn't expect to be evil - like Azsheera) to snatch the artifact while you were busy fighting with his clone in the throne room. Also - what I really missed in Act II was... Caldeum. We didn't really see the city - it would have been so cool if Belial did something to really screw you over and you had to enter the demon-infested partially destroyed Caldeum to find his new lair before he uses the Black Soulstone.

    Act III story would also be quite good if only Azmodan wasn't so... stupid. Like - come on, what type of battle commander tells their enemies what he's about to do. I'd be so much better if they just removed all the "Giant Talking Head" moments and put more missives/orders from Azmodan on the Battlefield. Also - I kinda feel that Act III was too small in general. There could have been a few more zones - like 1-2 in the battlefields and more Azmodan's Towers levels. I would also like have to fight different lieutenant in each tower. The other stupid thing is that once you beat the towers, you just go to the crater and voila - Azmodan's lair... Correct me if I'm wrong, but shouldn't the lord of Sin have his own dungeon? I can live with Adria betrayal, even though it would have been so much better if she sacrificed Leah to get Diablo's essence and then, for example, put the stone into Tyrael or some other male NPC. Or, if it really had to be Leah, we shouldn't know she had any powers to begin with, because it makes the whole betrayal/Diablo scene less epic.

    As for Act IV - I generally believe that the story presented there is very good - Diablo invades Heaven, goes after the Crystal Arch, you get to fight Iskatu, Rakanoth, Izual... Heaven has fallen to despair, then you restore hope and press on to stop Diablo before he destroyes everything - that's cool, that's totally Diablo. With one exception - Diablo shouldn't talk at all. Really. It would have been so much better if you knew that Diablo has become a Prime Evil and he's stronger than ever and that he managed to nearly destroy the Heavens, but you wouldn't meet him in any way (besides catching a glimpse of him at the end of Act III) before the final fight.

    The thing that always made Diablo scary was... well, he was scary because you knew he's the final boss, you knew he's the evil incarnated, you knew he'd probably kick your butt if you run across him somewhere, but you didn't know him - it's the things that you don't really know that scare you the most and that was the magic of Diablo.

    Those things, combined with making Act IV bigger would, in my opinion, make the story way better, mostly by making your main antagonist more frightening and less cheesy.

    However, I think that the folks at Blizzard overdid the "making the player feel epic" concept. They probably wanted you to feel great that you've seen through Belial's charade, stopped the "great" battle commander Azmodan or talked with Diablo himself... Unfortunately, by going this way, they've killed the sense of achievement you got in Diablo 1 or 2 where bosses were a real, serious and dark threat (what really made killing them so much more rewarding).

    Sorry for my english If I made some really stupid mistakes, it's because I'm a bit underslept.

  6. #36
    IncGamers Member nurman's Avatar
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    Re: The Great Disconnect Between the Diablo Universe and Diablo 3 the game.

    Quote Originally Posted by MathewPoland View Post
    The biggest issue for me is that basically everything is so... obvious.

    Like Leah=Diablo, The Fallen Star = Tyrael or finally Caldeum Emperor = Belial. Come on, I can't believe that anyone who watched the trailers and followed the interviews/blue posts didn't expect those to be true.
    Yes, Tyrael being the star was told to the player during the early movies and you can guess that the emperor is Belial after a while, but Leah? How can one guess that?
    The story would have been so much better if the writers took some time to read through the forums to find out what people expect to happen and change the story to be more suprising. Like:

    a) We all knew the Fallen Star was Tyrael, but the game made a big secret out of it - you had to find the sword pieces to find out what you already knew. Wouldn't it be more fun if Tyrael remembered his identity from the start, but suffered a partial amnesia and didn't remember what warning he came to deliver? Wouldn't it be more interesting if he was thrown out of Heaven by Imperius for standing up for humanity?
    Yeah, well, I doubt NPCs can see the opening cinematics.
    b) Cain's death - I'd have actually enjoyed this part of the plot (searching for the sword pieces only to be screwed over by the evil witch in the end), if only Maghda was different - more serious, mysterious and... evil. To me, she seemed more like a crazy woman than an evil, powerful witch. I'd have been fine with her killing Cain if she wasn't the butterfly queen, but instead she looked more like this:

    http://fc04.deviantart.net/fs71/i/20...re-d3ipa85.jpg
    I think this design would have been worse. A generic witch who lives in a cabin in the woods. We ARE talking about a cult for a lord of hell here.
    Act II story would be perfect if Maghda was different and more scary... and if it wouldn't be so obvious that the Emperor was in fact Belial. It would have been so much better if Hakan II was merely a puppet in Belial's hands, designed to trick the Nephalem into believing that he's the real threat allowing the real Belial (hiding as someone who you really wouldn't expect to be evil - like Azsheera) to snatch the artifact while you were busy fighting with his clone in the throne room. Also - what I really missed in Act II was... Caldeum. We didn't really see the city - it would have been so cool if Belial did something to really screw you over and you had to enter the demon-infested partially destroyed Caldeum to find his new lair before he uses the Black Soulstone.
    Emperor Hakan is NOT a puppet. He IS Belial.
    Act III story would also be quite good if only Azmodan wasn't so... stupid. Like - come on, what type of battle commander tells their enemies what he's about to do. I'd be so much better if they just removed all the "Giant Talking Head" moments and put more missives/orders from Azmodan on the Battlefield. Also - I kinda feel that Act III was too small in general. There could have been a few more zones - like 1-2 in the battlefields and more Azmodan's Towers levels. I would also like have to fight different lieutenant in each tower. The other stupid thing is that once you beat the towers, you just go to the crater and voila - Azmodan's lair... Correct me if I'm wrong, but shouldn't the lord of Sin have his own dungeon? I can live with Adria betrayal, even though it would have been so much better if she sacrificed Leah to get Diablo's essence and then, for example, put the stone into Tyrael or some other male NPC. Or, if it really had to be Leah, we shouldn't know she had any powers to begin with, because it makes the whole betrayal/Diablo scene less epic.
    Later halves of Act 3 are not played in "Azmodan's lair" but instead they are in the ruins of the Mount Arreat. Are you forgetting that we are talking about an assault at the Bastion's keep rather than the player characters just assaulting Azmodan?

    The reason why the black soulstone was placed onto Leah was because she was (latently) evil, being, in a way, a "daughter" of Diablo. Also, you could not place the soulstone on Tyrael because he is too powerful for it. Remember what happened to King Leoric and why his son Albrecht was chosen to host Diablo instead?

    As far as I know, Leah wasn't "sacrificed" to get Diablo's essence, because Diablo's soul was already in the black soulstone. Instead, she was just used as a host.
    As for Act IV - I generally believe that the story presented there is very good - Diablo invades Heaven, goes after the Crystal Arch, you get to fight Iskatu, Rakanoth, Izual... Heaven has fallen to despair, then you restore hope and press on to stop Diablo before he destroyes everything - that's cool, that's totally Diablo. With one exception - Diablo shouldn't talk at all. Really. It would have been so much better if you knew that Diablo has become a Prime Evil and he's stronger than ever and that he managed to nearly destroy the Heavens, but you wouldn't meet him in any way (besides catching a glimpse of him at the end of Act III) before the final fight.

    The thing that always made Diablo scary was... well, he was scary because you knew he's the final boss, you knew he's the evil incarnated, you knew he'd probably kick your butt if you run across him somewhere, but you didn't know him - it's the things that you don't really know that scare you the most and that was the magic of Diablo.

    Those things, combined with making Act IV bigger would, in my opinion, make the story way better, mostly by making your main antagonist more frightening and less cheesy.
    Diablo is the lord of terror. The reason why he's speaking in A4 to the player is because he is terrorizing him. Or at least trying to. Trying to kill the character's motivation.

  7. #37
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    Re: The Great Disconnect Between the Diablo Universe and Diablo 3 the game.

    The story itself was mostly fine. I liked Adria coming back. The dialogue and general atmosphere (outside of maybe A1) was lacking.

  8. #38
    IncGamers Member Sass's Avatar
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    Re: The Great Disconnect Between the Diablo Universe and Diablo 3 the game.

    Quote Originally Posted by themeros View Post
    Sass, if you had to guess the percentages of Person A, B and C. What would your guess be?
    DISCLAIMER: 27% of statistics on the Internet are made up. 52.9% of these use decimals to seem scientific and/or accurate.



    A would be...maybe 20%.
    B would be...maybe 10%.
    C would be...maybe 40%.

    The remaining 30% I leave to those who tried the game, but didn't stay. The reason not necessarily being negative, but attention was not held. Examples include people I know personally: They got D3 for free when subscribing for WoW, they tried it, it was a good run and enjoyable game, but then sucked back into WoW. Another example are those who do in fact beat Norm, then don't touch it. This "person D" is any kind of "tried it, but didn't stick". I use C as someone who tried it, found flaws, but didn't get downtrodden by them and continued playing.



    Numbers pulled totally out of the dairy air, but I definitely think the haters are just a vocal minority. When you account for casuals, hardcore power players (see people here who didn't focus on story and went on to top ladder chars), the lovers (fanbois), and the haters, it doesn't hold up that those saying it was terrible are speaking for everyone else.




    I'm C by the way.

  9. #39
    IncGamers Member MathewPoland's Avatar
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    Re: The Great Disconnect Between the Diablo Universe and Diablo 3 the game.

    Quote Originally Posted by nurman View Post
    but Leah? How can one guess that?
    We knew that she's a daughter of Adria and "a great warrior who was lost when Tristram fell to the demons", right? We find Adria's journal where she wrote about Aidan, the older son of Leoric, visiting her at night and that once he leaves, hell will follow in his wake, so it's obvious that at the time Aidan visited Adria, he had Diablo's essence within him.

    Moreover, Leah has powers... How? Most men don't really have powers - either were extremely lucky to find another human being who's lucky enough to have unlocked the Nephalem power or Leah is a child of Aiden and Adria and her powers come from Diablo (she could have gotten them from Adria, but... again - Adria says in Act II that Leah's powers are stronger)...

    Of course it's not a 100% confirmation, because **** happens in the world of Sanctuary, but... Either way, this was expected, as far as I know, by many, many people.

    Quote Originally Posted by nurman View Post
    Yeah, well, I doubt NPCs can see the opening cinematics.
    Well, Tyrael's fall was explained in the cinematic between Act I and Act II. The NPCs can't really see the cinematics, but the whole Tyrael vs Imperius thing was shown to Leah by Tyrael in a vision.

    Quote Originally Posted by nurman View Post
    I think this design would have been worse. A generic witch who lives in a cabin in the woods. We ARE talking about a cult for a lord of hell here.
    Worse than a butterfly queen? I highly doubt that anything would be worse than that. Besides, that's just a random piece of art I've found in google and that witch... is not really your most generic witch of all times since he lacks for example the big nose and a broom...

    Moreover, a girl in a hood, with a pentagram on her neck, pale skin... It fits the demonic kult way more than a butterfly queen Maghda.

    Quote Originally Posted by nurman View Post
    Emperor Hakan is NOT a puppet. He IS Belial.
    I know, but would it be more awesome IF he was a puppet? If Belial tricked the player into believing that Emperor Hakan is the Lord Of Lies so that the true Belial could steal the Black Soulstone while the hero is occupied fighting his clone in the palace? Wouldn't it fit the Lord Of Lies more?

    Quote Originally Posted by nurman View Post
    Later halves of Act 3 are not played in "Azmodan's lair" but instead they are in the ruins of the Mount Arreat. Are you forgetting that we are talking about an assault at the Bastion's keep rather than the player characters just assaulting Azmodan?
    I know all that, but... Again - Azmodan is the lord of sin, right? So - we can assume he's an incarnation of all sins. That said - pride/greed should be a part of his being. Doesn't it seem to you that the Lord Of Sin has two sin towers built in the crater for his minions, but he - himself - resides in a citadel with only one room? Shouldn't he want to have a more luxorious lair or maybe even a fortress there? Hm?

    Quote Originally Posted by nurman View Post
    The reason why the black soulstone was placed onto Leah was because she was (latently) evil, being, in a way, a "daughter" of Diablo. Also, you could not place the soulstone on Tyrael because he is too powerful for it. Remember what happened to King Leoric and why his son Albrecht was chosen to host Diablo instead?
    You have a point here, but still - I don't like how right from the start you suspect that Leah=Diablo and in the end it turns out to be true. At the very least they could have made it a bigger secret earlier on.

    Besides, Albrecht was chosen to be Diablo's host because Diablo was severely weakened by the years of imprisonment within the soulstone and he couldn't fully corrupt the noble soul of Leoric. It isn't said that, if he had more time to regain his strength, it wouldn't be possible though.

    Quote Originally Posted by nurman View Post
    As far as I know, Leah wasn't "sacrificed" to get Diablo's essence, because Diablo's soul was already in the black soulstone. Instead, she was just used as a host.
    I've understood that at least part of the Diablo's essence was hidden within Leah (giving her powers btw)...

    Quote Originally Posted by nurman View Post
    Diablo is the lord of terror. The reason why he's speaking in A4 to the player is because he is terrorizing him. Or at least trying to. Trying to kill the character's motivation.
    Well, he did a terrible job at terrorizing most people (as far as I know), so... if he doesn't have the juice to scare people, he'd be wise to shut up, wouldn't he?

  10. #40
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    Re: The Great Disconnect Between the Diablo Universe and Diablo 3 the game.

    Quote Originally Posted by Sass View Post
    I'm C by the way.
    I'm also a C. I would say that I have tons of friends that purchased D3, and all of them are Person D. All but two quit after beating Normal because that's what you do with games these days -- one-and-done -- of the two that didn't, one quit because Hell was too difficult for him, and another hasn't really quit but hasn't played because he really just wanted PvP but they took too long to add that in, so he went back to his LoL habit.

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