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Thread: Dual wield?

  1. #1
    IncGamers Member InsaneAction's Avatar
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    Dual wield?

    Currently I'm using a 1H crossbow and Deadmans but I want to rock duel wield...

    I think if I can get a 1H with 90%+ CD and an open socket it will up my DPS by a lot... That's pretty much another 200% CD...

    Here's my DH: http://us.battle.net/d3/en/profile/I.../hero/15064842

    I don't want to use the 2H Xbow or Windforce like a lot of people are using. I like the crazy fast attack speed and +10% CC from Archery...

    What I'm looking for is there anyone else that has a High DPS, DW, DH?

  2. #2
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    Re: Dual wield?

    Not exactly high dps but ok.... 190 odd depending on gear changes.
    Darksider#2307

    However you need more vita before you look at losing the DML,
    20k vita is 1 shot territory. DW gives less vita & dps than a Xbow, but is personally
    far more fun.

  3. #3
    IncGamers Member InsaneAction's Avatar
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    Re: Dual wield?

    Don't want to be a 1 shot now do I... I still plan on getting much better Shoulders/Ammy/Rings/Bracers with Dex and Vit...

    My DH is like my back up to my back up... I just kinda have him to play around on and I farm upgrades for him with my Monk and Wiz... Also having 2 toons that use Dex means he can get the hammy-downs from my Monk.

    Edit: I also plan to put a amethyst in my Helm... I used the Ruby and Cains set to get to 60 quick.

  4. #4
    IncGamers Member Dethklok's Avatar
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    Re: Dual wield?

    Quote Originally Posted by InsaneAction View Post
    I think if I can get a 1H with 90%+ CD and an open socket it will up my DPS by a lot... That's pretty much another 200% CD...
    200% CD is the upside.

    The downside is that you likely need to replicate your +damage, %damage, and attack speed mods, so overall that 200% CD costs 5 affixes, leaving you one random mod. With Gloom access, DHs normally don't care about getting to 6% life steal from gear, so it's hard to think of weapon-specific mods you'd want, so it would probably be something like max discipline or Dex/Vit.

    With a (very!) good Dead Man's, you can get 5% more attack speed, 10% more crit chance, a (hopefully) relevant skill bonus, lots of Dex/Vit, and some Hatred regen, plus a random mod. Subtract the 1 random mod from both items and you see what the dual-wield trade-off is. In a world where 2os Manticore exists, it's hard to justify giving up so much for extra CD, even if it is a substantial 100%.

  5. #5
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    Re: Dual wield?

    I've been considering this too. I recently came upon a large sum of gold, so I might experiment with it. Currently I'm planning on using your multi-shot build for speed farming. But a DH holding such a large crossbow just appears languid and.. vulnerable. I imagine a DH should be rocking a crossbow in each hand while bouncing off walls and doing crazy acrobatics (Dante from Devil May Cry anyone?).

    Edit: tried it... it was garbage. Dual wielding is totally outclassed by Manticores. I spent a little less than10m and got a calamity with 1.78 aps, 90% crit, and an open socket along with a rare with very similar stats. Both just under 1000 dps. I my health went down below 7k, and crit chance was unchanged. I feel like dual wielding requires you to sacrifice too much for a higher APS that doesn't even amount to the same damage output with roughly the same DPS. I have ~135k dps using a Manticore. I had ~125 dual wielding. It killed much much slower and required very active gameplay because of how fragile I had become.

    Sent from my SPH-L710 using Tapatalk 2
    Last edited by tougeznut; 15-01-2013 at 02:22.

  6. #6
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    Re: Dual wield?

    I tried dual wield also, the DPS topped off really fast even with a semi decent calamity. I'm using a high dps Danetta's Spite paired with a DML, even that is much better than dual wielding.

  7. #7
    Administrator Flux's Avatar
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    Re: Dual wield?

    I too was eager to dual wield xbows in the early days, and found it underwhelming. The pewpewpew is great fun, and I thought that might be a really useful hatred generation technique, but Vengeance does that so much better.

    It's kind of a conundrum that faster firing rate isn't really that useful with a bow in D3. Multishot it's not great since the hatred cost goes too high with super fast shooting. Ball Lightning the bottleneck is how long the orbs take to get to the target, so firing out 10 of them instead of say 7 in the same time doesn't make much diff if the first 4 or 5 to arrive get the job done. Bolo Shot you're waiting for the boom timer, and sticking 4 or 5 shots on a target in the 2 second countdown does nothing if they die from 2 of them. Hungering Arrow is really the only popular bow attack that gets a big, obvious benefit from much higher AS.

    Hopefully Bliz will *fix* Archery at some point so it doesn't give such a huge advantage to Xbows. That and a buff to overall damage on bows and 1H xbows would open up a lot more DH build options, with the variety in items feeding back into more skill variety as well.
    --Flux
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  8. #8
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    Re: Dual wield?

    Quote Originally Posted by Flux View Post
    Hopefully Bliz will *fix* Archery at some point so it doesn't give such a huge advantage to Xbows. That and a buff to overall damage on bows and 1H xbows would open up a lot more DH build options, with the variety in items feeding back into more skill variety as well.
    The 2h crossbow archery bonus is actually the worst one, by far. Bow 15% bonus damage is the best with 1h 10% cc a bit behind. That's assuming around 350% cd and 50% cc( both are lowish for a dh, top end is around 550/65 ), with better crit on gear the 15% get's even better compared to the other 2.

    The only reasons crossbows are so much better than everything else are:
    - Manticore 2nd socket
    - Low (avg 93) damage variance makes a +300min 400max physical damage mod give ~300/607 instead. Bows have 380 avg variance, so only 300/400 there. For 1 handers it's 229 variance, 300/471. After the 50% mod that's 450/910 for xbows, 450/600 for bows and 450/706 for 1hs.

    Changing physical weapon damage calculations would take other options almost up to par(manti would still be the best), but it's already been stated that it won't happen. Maybe the first expansion will add some great bows/mods/something to fix the situation.

  9. #9
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    Re: Dual wield?

    I actually love the Dual Wield. With my base CC and Sharpshooter, I am Critical hitting all the time it seems like. You just have to get a build together that works with it. Granted, I think I could do more damage with my build if I had a nice Manticore or other 2H + Quiver but I haven't found one yet that matches up bonus enough to even things out (that I can afford anyway).

    Check out my DH here http://us.battle.net/d3/en/profile/B...1/hero/8075981. I survive Inferno MP2 quite nicely with this gear and build. MP1 is pretty much a cake walk save for a few special ability combos on packs that do me in. MP3 is not bad but 2 is usually the limit i put on it.

    Edit: I should mention I use my Templar 90% of the time.
    Last edited by Bazkur; 02-03-2013 at 23:19.

  10. #10
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    Re: Dual wield?

    Quote Originally Posted by Bazkur View Post
    I actually love the Dual Wield. With my base CC and Sharpshooter, I am Critical hitting all the time it seems like. You just have to get a build together that works with it. Granted, I think I could do more damage with my build if I had a nice Manticore or other 2H + Quiver but I haven't found one yet that matches up bonus enough to even things out (that I can afford anyway).

    Check out my DH here http://us.battle.net/d3/en/profile/B...1/hero/8075981. I survive Inferno MP2 quite nicely with this gear and build. MP1 is pretty much a cake walk save for a few special ability combos on packs that do me in. MP3 is not bad but 2 is usually the limit i put on it.

    Edit: I should mention I use my Templar 90% of the time.
    Wow, I've never seen anyone rely completely on sharpshooter for crit chance. You have none on any of your equipment and you're still critting all the time? Might be worth some experimenting to build around tons of dex and crit damage. You would be able to easily ignore attack speed, because a higher APS would only hinder your chance to crit since every shot that isn't a crit is just a waste of hatred. Hmm, curious...

    Sent from my SPH-L710 using Tapatalk 2

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