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  1. #11
    IncGamers Member Dethklok's Avatar
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    Re: WW/Tornado Barb OH Weapon Test

    Quote Originally Posted by JEB90 View Post
    Here's the conundrum for your math: if offhand damage matters AT ALL, we should see some sort of spread between the weapons' killing times.
    Good observation. It didn't fully satisfy me either; explaining how current math gets you 90% of the way there is great and all, but that last 10% is bothersome. I'm in the lab working on it.

  2. #12
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    Re: WW/Tornado Barb OH Weapon Test

    Quote Originally Posted by Dethklok View Post
    If you tell it you have a 1.2aps, 1000dps weapon mainhand and a 1.5aps, 0dps weapon offhand, it tells you that your offhand Run Like the Wind ticks do zero damage. Therefore, it thinks that offhand DPS has something to do with RLtW damage (it doesn't). If it's that far off on RLtW, which is a majority of your real DPS, I'm sorry but it's crap.
    Finding a bug in a piece of software still in development does not make it garbage. What weapon actually in the game has 0 dps? Also, if you'd troubled to really investigate, you'd have realized it assumes you don't have an offhand weapon equipped unless the offhand weapon has a damage stat. With a 1-1 damage, 1.5 aps weapon, it correctly calculates offhand tick speed and damage. I'm sorry but your opinion on the calculator is crap.

  3. #13
    IncGamers Member Dethklok's Avatar
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    Re: WW/Tornado Barb OH Weapon Test

    Quote Originally Posted by Karth View Post
    I'm sorry but your opinion on the calculator is crap.
    Was crap. Was.

    This might be a tad nitpicky, but I have spotted one error when it comes to handling RLtW tickrates — it pretty much assumes the effect is going continuously. For Whirlwind, this is correct (as long as you keep channeling); for Run Like the Wind, tornadoes are a little more incremental. For example, let's take a tornado with 8 frames per tick. The calculator has this as dealing 60/8=7.5 ticks per second and just moves on from there. However, what really happens is that the tornado spawns with the intent to live 180 frames (3 seconds). It dishes out a tick every 8 frames, until it's handed out either 22 or 23 ticks at the 176th or 177th frame (I'm trying to research whether it does damage at Frame #1 or waits until Frame #8 to start dealing damage; I'm thinking it's #8). It never makes it to 184, so the last few frames are wasted. 22 ticks over 3 seconds is 7.33 ticks/sec; 23 ticks is 7.67 ticks/sec. Either way, it's off by about 2.5% in its reporting of RLtW damage (which means overall DPS reporting is roughly 1.5% off).

    Of course, I don't have the answer to this yet either, and it does provide a good approximation (in this case, evenly split between the two possible answers).
    Last edited by Dethklok; 30-11-2012 at 13:45.

  4. #14
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    Re: WW/Tornado Barb OH Weapon Test

    Yeah. D3 research being a work in progress, I don't expect much more than a good approximation from anything. The rest of the calculator is quite nice, too; importing bnet profiles, saving data, one calculator for all classes instead of several spreadsheets or whatever.

  5. #15
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    Re: WW/Tornado Barb OH Weapon Test

    Quote Originally Posted by Dethklok View Post
    So let's say I have a 1.2aps mainhand and a 1.66aps offhand. That means that 58% of the time I'm swinging with my mainhand and 42% of the time I'm swinging with my offhand; this is because my offhand is much faster and therefore gets its turn done faster. So even if I was using a Bash build, the mainhand DPS would count more than the offhand DPS by almost a 3:2 ratio.
    I was recording a fight with 2.00 and 2.50 APS weapons. Based on your post the time between the attacks should alternate between 0.5 seconds and 0.4 seconds right ? But that wasn't the case. I never got 0.5 or 0.4 seconds. It was always between 0.417 and 0.467 and there was nothing like a short long short long rhythm.
    For me it looks like avg attack speed of both weapons and swinging 50% with MH / 50% with OH.

  6. #16
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    Re: WW/Tornado Barb OH Weapon Test

    The rate at which tornadoes are dropped has nothing to do with weapon swing timers, so you wouldn't necessarily expect the tornadoes to simply alternate fast slow fast slow. If you're constantly whirlwinding, the pattern is non-obvious, and almost certainly not simply alternating.

    Secondly, there isn't a one-to-one map from attack speed to tic rate. Instead, there are breakpoints.

  7. #17
    IncGamers Member Crunchy II's Avatar
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    Re: WW/Tornado Barb OH Weapon Test

    Quote Originally Posted by Dethklok View Post
    EDIT: ON ECHOING FURY

    I'm not saying Echoing Fury is unusable, but it's severely overrated and definitely looks better on paper than it works in practice. With 1.43/1.66 combo, average tornado tick speed is 1.554aps; with a 1.2/1.66 combo, average tornado tick speed is 1.467aps (both before off-weapon attack speed boosts).
    The +APS from the Echoing Fury is applied to the off-hand too. So that 1.43 EF effectively turns the 1.66 Dagger into a 1.89 Dagger! That surely makes an EF pretty godly?

  8. #18
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    Re: WW/Tornado Barb OH Weapon Test

    Quote Originally Posted by Crunchy II View Post
    The +APS from the Echoing Fury is applied to the off-hand too.
    No, it isn't.

  9. #19
    IncGamers Member Crunchy II's Avatar
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    Re: WW/Tornado Barb OH Weapon Test

    Quote Originally Posted by magicrectangle View Post
    No, it isn't.
    The EF certainly affects the off-hand when looking at the APS on the paperdoll. Do you mean it is only applied for auto-attack but not tornadoes or Whirlwind?

  10. #20
    IncGamers Member Dethklok's Avatar
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    Re: WW/Tornado Barb OH Weapon Test

    Quote Originally Posted by magicrectangle View Post
    The rate at which tornadoes are dropped has nothing to do with weapon swing timers, so you wouldn't necessarily expect the tornadoes to simply alternate fast slow fast slow. If you're constantly whirlwinding, the pattern is non-obvious, and almost certainly not simply alternating.

    Secondly, there isn't a one-to-one map from attack speed to tic rate. Instead, there are breakpoints.
    I knew about the breakpoints, but was simplifying it; the only thing that creates the breakpoints is rounding. However, non-alternation was a genuine mistake that I was aware of shortly after my "back to the lab" comment above.

    Here is a slightly more accurate Whirlybarb DPS calculator, getting the ticks exactly right on RLtW (I counted them, you actually get a bonus tick at frame 0) and includes DPS values for all four ways you can use WW+RLtW (MHMH, MHOH, OHMH, OHOH), making it more accurate than the other calculators.

    If you put in the off-hand axe and dagger that started this whole thread, guess what? 0.7% difference, in favor of the dagger. However, with the 4 ways to play WW+RLtW, there's chance for error there too.

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