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  1. #21
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    Re: American Homeless people

    Quote Originally Posted by krischan View Post
    I will assume that you are exaggerating, not noticing that some people may interpret your words as a kind of racism.
    Illegals get full government benefits(medical, free rent, foodstamps, free money) and don't have to pay any taxes.

    California has gained 10,000,000 people in the last decade, but only 150,000 tax payers. Where do you think the money to give them these services comes from?

  2. #22
    Europe Trade Moderator krischan's Avatar
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    Re: American Homeless people

    Glurin, there are certainly a lot of mooches, but I find your use of the word "they" to be too much of a generalization. A lot of people come because they need work and there are a lot of employers who are participating in getting them into the country because they make money be evading taxes.

    Quote Originally Posted by peppercats View Post
    California has gained 10,000,000 people in the last decade, but only 150,000 tax payers. Where do you think the money to give them these services comes from?
    It could come from those tax evaders I mentioned above. I'm sure the employers will certainly be happy to pay instead of going into jail for tax fraud. The state has to put more efforts into catching them. As with illegal workers here, it's a matter of fighting organized criminality and corruption.

    California is short on money in spite of having the biggest economy of all US states because they are wasting money on a lot of things. How much of it is paid for feeding immigrants? Besides, if they are getting money, they aren't illegal immigrants, else they would sent back if caught, correct?

    I admit that I don't know enough details about the issue to make rock-solid statements, however.

    Most immigrants in the past came with nothing but the clothes they wore and a handful of money, independently from their willingness to work. It's them who are welcomed by the plaque on the statue. If that immigration policy isn't applioed anymore, it's just fair to point it out.
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  3. #23
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    Re: American Homeless people

    Quote Originally Posted by krischan View Post
    Glurin, there are certainly a lot of mooches, but I find your use of the word "they" to be too much of a generalization. A lot of people come because they need work and there are a lot of employers who are participating in getting them into the country because they make money be evading taxes.



    It could come from those tax evaders I mentioned above. I'm sure the employers will certainly be happy to pay instead of going into jail for tax fraud. The state has to put more efforts into catching them. As with illegal workers here, it's a matter of fighting organized criminality and corruption.

    California is short on money in spite of having the biggest economy of all US states because they are wasting money on a lot of things. How much of it is paid for feeding immigrants? Besides, if they are getting money, they aren't illegal immigrants, else they would sent back if caught, correct?

    I admit that I don't know enough details about the issue to make rock-solid statements, however.

    Most immigrants in the past came with nothing but the clothes they wore and a handful of money, independently from their willingness to work. It's them who are welcomed by the plaque on the statue. If that immigration policy isn't applioed anymore, it's just fair to point it out.
    I can't speak for my entire population, but I have nothing against immigrants. I have something against immigrants that come into the country to leech welfare,not work, and not pay taxes while having a 15+ person family.

    And then you get labeled "bigot", "racist" etc if you point out how unfair it is.

  4. #24
    IncGamers Member Stevinator's Avatar
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    Re: American Homeless people

    That's simply not true, illegal immigrants can not receive food stamps.

    http://www.factcheck.org/2010/05/a-m...ut-immigrants/
    http://deni-edwards.hubpages.com/hub...ve-Food-Stamps

    In fact, only ten percent of all the people that receive food stamps are hispanic at all. There have been people who have expressed concern that households that had "Anchor Babies", often don't take the food stamps the kids would be eligible for because the parent's are afraid of being deported, and they may not be aware they qualify. I know that sounds bad, but those children are American citizens. When they grow up, they will pay taxes because they'll have social security numbers. I think you'd be surprised, those illegals would LOVE to be legal. hey could build credit and you know, join society. Oh, and yes, they would then qualify for benefits--though I would have a lengthy waiting period from when they got their tax ID, to when they were able to collect any assistance, specifically to avoid the problem that people think we have. This is similar to the current system where legal immigrants have to wait five years before they can collect welfare or food stamps (and have to pay into medicare and social security at least ten years), the only difference is I'd let people sign up who were already here illegally without making them leave.

    http://www.factcheck.org/2012/01/new...d-stamp-claim/
    http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-me...l-food-stamps/
    http://blog.chron.com/immigration/20...ct-or-fiction/
    http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/25727901.../#.ULIr64fO3g8

    Now it is true that the kids get free schooling, but they're citizens if they were born here. All citizens get free schooling.

    It is true that anyone can go into an emergency room, whether they can pay or not. The emergency room has to treat them, which can be expensive. But even citizens have a major problem with that. in Colorado, 44% of visits could have been handled by a regular doctor. Later in the Article they say that it's not the illegals, but those on medicare that tend to over use the emergency room. Illegals tend to under use it (they avoid the hospital when they should go). I assume it's because they don't have insurance, can't pay and probably have to work longer hours, so they fight through a lot more than people with full coverage, no fear or deportation and more time.
    http://www.kunc.org/post/44-colorada...on-emergencies
    Plus there are simple solutions to fixing emergency room abuse, many states just issue a small fee if you want to be treated in the emergency room for a non-emergency. If you won't pay they send you off to an urgent care center or a regular doctor.
    http://abcnews.go.com/Business/texas...0#.ULI1d4fO3g8
    http://www.kaiserhealthnews.org/stor...-patients.aspx

    As for free housing, Illegal immigrants are not eligible, but sometimes they live with a legal resident. If that's the case, you can't say we'e paying for the illegal, when really we're not. The problem is also very small. Estimates on what percent of all the section 8 housing has at least one illegal living there are as follows:
    Nationwide: 0.4%
    New York 0.9%
    San Diego 1.8%
    San Francisco 0.5%
    Miami-Dade and Chicago both have less than 50 households with at least one ineligible noncitizen.
    http://usatoday30.usatoday.com/news/...-housing_N.htm

    This whole post took me about 20 minutes of googling, reading and typing badly. Jmerv, Glurin and Peppercats would any of you like to adjust your thoughts on this?

  5. #25
    IncGamers Member Stevinator's Avatar
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    Re: American Homeless people

    Quote Originally Posted by peppercats View Post
    I can't speak for my entire population, but I have nothing against immigrants. I have something against immigrants that come into the country to leech welfare,not work, and not pay taxes while having a 15+ person family.

    And then you get labeled "bigot", "racist" etc if you point out how unfair it is.
    I would like some documentation on the size of this problem of 15 person illegal immigrant families and none of them working. How many families like that are there? How much to they take in? If they don't work, what do they do for money?

  6. #26
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    Re: American Homeless people

    I like how when I say immigrants you say "Hispanics", I never singled any races out. Anyone can be an immigrant.
    In fact, only ten percent of all the people that receive food stamps are hispanic at all.
    Maybe because they're a minority of the population? Also, the most recent information I can find is 28.8%(http://www.acf.hhs.gov/programs/ofa/...2009/indexfy09), nearly the same amount of usage as whites, while only 1/4th~ the population(http://quickfacts.census.gov/qfd/states/00000.html).

    I'd also like to point out that I'm not against immigrants using public programs as long as they pay taxes.

  7. #27
    IncGamers Member Stevinator's Avatar
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    Re: American Homeless people

    Mexicans were mentioned earlier in the thread, as were brown people. But since you brought it up, has anyone besides Goofy Joe Biden complained about non-hispanic immigrants? Did herman Cain mean to say the Giant Electrified Fence was to be place on our northern border? When people above me claimed they were being called racist, which race were they referring to?

    I haven't called anyone a racist. I'm merely saying we should fix our immigration problem. The republicans could defuse that issue by allowing the bill, with a path to citizenship, but make sure there are solid rules about not getting benefits for a period of time. I think Democrats would agree to that. I think doing that and THEN cracking down on employers would be a nice carrot and stick to get these people on the tax rolls. They don't have to become citizens overnight, there are lots of immigrant statuses we could assign them in the interim.

    Anyway, if you crack down on employers, but don't give them a way to stay here they'll just keep finding new ways to cheat the employment laws.

  8. #28
    IncGamers Member jmervyn's Avatar
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    Re: American Homeless people

    Quote Originally Posted by Glurin View Post
    There's even been buzz about allowing them the legal right to vote in some places, with accusations of racism flying wildly when someone says no. (Note that we are supposed to call them "undocumented workers/immigrants" now rather than "illegal aliens".)
    Since Steve has entered the fray, let's be specific: Illegal Aliens (there, I said it) aren't technically allowed to vote - it's just that the Obama administration and various Democrat entities officially enable their illicit voter fraud. This is what they were calling "voter suppression" in the media (attempting to remove the dead, felons, and false registrations). It's pretty despicable when their claim is that voter fraud is negligible, but they'll move heaven and earth not only to prevent it being proven but to prevent it being prevented. If there's 2000 or so bad entries on voter rolls in a particular roll, one must ask themselves WHY the Socialists are so feckin' upset when anyone tries to clean it up. Answer - Stuart Smalley was elected to the Senate through just such blatant voter fraud.
    Quote Originally Posted by Glurin View Post
    But if you're pale colored, why you're just "born racist". At this point, I just expect to be called a racist by somebody when discussing immigration or various other subjects.
    You got a problem with that, White Boy? It's not like you're being fair. ("fair", get it?!)
    Quote Originally Posted by Glurin View Post
    Look what happened when Arizona tried to actually enforce the law, which the federal government refused to do, because they've got a really bad illegal alien problem there. You'd have thought that Arizona was the new KKK headquarters of the world the way lefties talked about it.
    It's because current policy forbids asking, and suspect aliens' claimed names are simply forwarded to the ICE. Needless to say, it doesn't work, particularly since Eric Holder chooses to not follow the laws. When you have what essentially amounts to a hot war on the other side of the border, one must wonder exactly why spillover is something that Holder wants to encourage.
    Quote Originally Posted by krischan View Post
    Glurin, there are certainly a lot of mooches, but I find your use of the word "they" to be too much of a generalization.
    I don't; Glurin was being relatively specific and inferring things from a previous specification is over-reading. Just because he & I use "they" doesn't mean we're RAACISSTTTSTSSTTT!!!, except when viewed by those who have an agenda to implement.
    Quote Originally Posted by krischan View Post
    The state has to put more efforts into catching them. As with illegal workers here, it's a matter of fighting organized criminality and corruption.
    As Glurin partly identified, the Democrat Party takes heroic measures to prevent the individual states from doing so. Instead, enforcement is relegated to the Federal level alone, whereupon it is completely neglected.
    Quote Originally Posted by krischan View Post
    How much of it is paid for feeding immigrants?
    You'll have to do some serious number-crunching to get actual numbers. Here's a good start: 71% of immigrant households are on one or more forms of welfare. The data purposefully does not identify legal vs. illegal immigration, which is also key to understanding where Steve is wrong in his claim. Chances are that one of the primary forms is a school lunch program, which provides breakfast and lunch for each child, no questions asked. There are Mexican towns that bus kids across the border for this purpose (as well as attending U.S. schools). So if you consider the entire budget of California's school lunch program, $137,363,390 in 2010, even low-balling the percentage participation as 40% illegal alien means we're spending almost $55M feeding them. Should we stop?
    Quote Originally Posted by krischan View Post
    Besides, if they are getting money, they aren't illegal immigrants, else they would sent back if caught, correct?
    Wrong. Illegal immigrants get a number of benefits, admittedly not all of which are in cash form, such as some kind of tax credit ("Earned Income Credit) where only 18% of their income is taxable vs. 100% for natural born citizenry. They are not sent back when caught in almost all circumstances.
    Quote Originally Posted by krischan View Post
    Most immigrants in the past came with nothing but the clothes they wore and a handful of money, independently from their willingness to work. It's them who are welcomed by the plaque on the statue. If that immigration policy isn't applioed anymore, it's just fair to point it out.
    Sure. In similar fashion, many towns used to have an open border policy, both on the Northern and SouthWestern borders. The reason the problem has become as acute as it is springs from the "safety net" being so grotesquely distorted. You'd have to be a fool to scratch for a living as the 2nd or 3rd child on a Sonoran ranch, when you could move to the U.S. and find off-the-books work as a day labourer.
    Last edited by jmervyn; 25-11-2012 at 18:01.

  9. #29
    IncGamers Member BobCox2's Avatar
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    Re: American Homeless people

    RE: Food Stamps Etc.
    Although illegal aliens are not generally eligible to collect public welfare benefits, an illegal alien may receive benefits under the Aid to Families with Dependent Children (AFDC) and Food Stamps programs on behalf of his or her U.S. citizen child. (Any child born in the United States is considered a U.S. citizen, regardless of the parents' immigration status.) A 1997 General Accounting Office (GAO) report determined that in 1995 households headed by illegal aliens received a total of $700 million in AFDC benefits and $430 million in Food Stamps.

    P.S. I'm not being racist, my wife and her family are immigrants from Mexico. They came Legally in the 1970's, and except for her mother (her english is still very poor) the entire family of 8 are now US Citizans, 2 of them with US college degrees.
    Last edited by BobCox2; 26-11-2012 at 01:15.

  10. #30
    IncGamers Member Glurin's Avatar
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    Re: American Homeless people

    Ah yes, I forgot we aren't allowed to use pronouns either, because pronouns are racist.

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